BSMD vs Traditional Path

[ppofbng]

@srk2017 why did leave BU , Case and Brown from your list?

[srk2017]

@ppofbng

@srk2017 why did leave BU , Case and Brown from your list?

I consider them to be mid tier schools. Again I don’t consider myself as an authority on tiers

[grtd2010]

@biomeds

If your first-hand knowledge is that most of your family/relative/friends’ children getting into medical school w/o significant difficult, you are probably OK with going to the traditional route if you are not accepted by your top choice of BS/MD program.

For BS/MD route: generally you don’t need to get super high GPA or MCAT (if required), so you can do something you truly enjoy, i.e. you can spend time doing research or club activities instead of studying because you need to get >3.8 GPA. You don’t need to build a ‘perfect’ MD applicant profile. However, some (not all) UGs are not top choice or you probably won’t attend if not for the combined BS/MD program.

For traditional route: I don’t necessarily consider taking gap years as failure if you need to. All life experiences do make student more mature and likely be beneficial in the long run.

Do not think even BSMD students can relax during UG and take it easy and most do not. Medical school is very intense and competitive and it does not matter which route one gets there. One should try BSMD route but keep the traditional route option open and then decide based on his/her situation and risk tolerance. All students try to do various ECs during UG including research, clinical and non-clinical volunteering and leadership positions in clubs. There is no one perfect MD profile IMO. All types of students are being selected by medical schools.

[grtd2010]

@grtd2010

@biomeds

If your first-hand knowledge is that most of your family/relative/friends’ children getting into medical school w/o significant difficult, you are probably OK with going to the traditional route if you are not accepted by your top choice of BS/MD program.

For BS/MD route: generally you don’t need to get super high GPA or MCAT (if required), so you can do something you truly enjoy, i.e. you can spend time doing research or club activities instead of studying because you need to get >3.8 GPA. You don’t need to build a ‘perfect’ MD applicant profile. However, some (not all) UGs are not top choice or you probably won’t attend if not for the combined BS/MD program.

For traditional route: I don’t necessarily consider taking gap years as failure if you need to. All life experiences do make student more mature and likely be beneficial in the long run.

Do not think even BSMD students can relax during UG and take it easy and most do not. Medical school is very intense and competitive and it does not matter which route one gets there. One should try BSMD route but keep the traditional route option open and then decide based on his/her situation and risk tolerance. All students try to do various ECs during UG including research, clinical and non-clinical volunteering and leadership positions in clubs. There is no one perfect MD profile IMO. All types of students are being selected by medical schools.

For regular route, one needs medical related ECs, research, leadership, human touch and great GPA and MCAT score to have a high probability of success. One has to work harder to balance between academics and ECs. BSMD students have to compete with these regular route MD students in medical school. They better not relax and take it easy during UG.

[srk2017]

@grtd2010

@grtd2010

@biomeds

If your first-hand knowledge is that most of your family/relative/friends’ children getting into medical school w/o significant difficult, you are probably OK with going to the traditional route if you are not accepted by your top choice of BS/MD program.

For BS/MD route: generally you don’t need to get super high GPA or MCAT (if required), so you can do something you truly enjoy, i.e. you can spend time doing research or club activities instead of studying because you need to get >3.8 GPA. You don’t need to build a ‘perfect’ MD applicant profile. However, some (not all) UGs are not top choice or you probably won’t attend if not for the combined BS/MD program.

For traditional route: I don’t necessarily consider taking gap years as failure if you need to. All life experiences do make student more mature and likely be beneficial in the long run.

Do not think even BSMD students can relax during UG and take it easy and most do not. Medical school is very intense and competitive and it does not matter which route one gets there. One should try BSMD route but keep the traditional route option open and then decide based on his/her situation and risk tolerance. All students try to do various ECs during UG including research, clinical and non-clinical volunteering and leadership positions in clubs. There is no one perfect MD profile IMO. All types of students are being selected by medical schools.

For regular route, one needs medical related ECs, research, leadership, human touch and great GPA and MCAT score to have a high probability of success. One has to work harder to balance between academics and ECs. BSMD students have to compete with these regular route MD students in medical school. They better not relax and take it easy during UG.

It’s human nature to relax when there is no pressure and we are talking about 17-21 year olds

[grtd2010]

@srk2017 Is your son’s applications list complete and submitted to AMCAS ? Looking at the data published by @NoviceDad, Vanderbilt(15%) and Northwestern University(12%) have greater than 10% acceptance rate for Vanderbilt University UGs in Top 20 medical schools. Surprisingly, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, NJ has 11% acceptance rate for Vanderbilt UG. Just curious, where a top UG graduates go via traditional route MD.
For Vanderbilt UG for year 2019, Estimated acceptance rate for various medical schools based on data in
Vandy’s details:
https://www.vanderbilt.edu/hpao/documents/2019_Annual_Report-2020-04-01.pdf

Institution Name % acceptance(estimated)
University of Tennessee Health Science Center College of Medicine 0.36
University of South Alabama College of Medicine 0.33
University of Illinois College of Medicine 0.29
Medical College of Georgia at Augusta University 0.26
University of Texas Southwestern Medical School 0.26
East Tennessee State University James H. Quillen College of Medicine 0.21
University of Louisville School of Medicine 0.2
University of South Florida Health Morsani College of Medicine 0.2
University of Texas Medical School at San Antonio 0.19
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine 0.19
Florida Atlantic University Charles E. Schmidt College of Medicine 0.19
Medical College of Wisconsin 0.19
University of Alabama School of Medicine 0.18
Texas A&M Health Science Center College of Medicine 0.17
University of Texas Medical School at Houston 0.17
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine 0.15
University of Kentucky College of Medicine 0.13
Florida International University Herbert Wertheim College of Medicine 0.12
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine 0.12
University of Florida College of Medicine 0.12
University of Virginia School of Medicine 0.12
University of Central Florida College of Medicine 0.11
Rutgers, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School 0.11
Saint Louis University School of Medicine 0.11
Ohio State University College of Medicine 0.1
University of Chicago - The Pritzker School of Medicine 0.09
Meharry Medical College 0.08

[grtd2010]

@grtd2010

@srk2017 Is your son’s applications list complete and submitted to AMCAS ? Looking at the data published by @NoviceDad, Vanderbilt(15%) and Northwestern University(12%) have greater than 10% acceptance rate for Vanderbilt University UGs in Top 20 medical schools. Surprisingly, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, NJ has 11% acceptance rate for Vanderbilt UG. Just curious, where a top UG graduates go via traditional route MD.
For Vanderbilt UG for year 2019, Estimated acceptance rate for various medical schools based on data in
Vandy’s details:
https://www.vanderbilt.edu/hpao/documents/2019_Annual_Report-2020-04-01.pdf

Institution Name % acceptance(estimated)
University of Tennessee Health Science Center College of Medicine 0.36
University of South Alabama College of Medicine 0.33
University of Illinois College of Medicine 0.29
Medical College of Georgia at Augusta University 0.26
University of Texas Southwestern Medical School 0.26
East Tennessee State University James H. Quillen College of Medicine 0.21
University of Louisville School of Medicine 0.2
University of South Florida Health Morsani College of Medicine 0.2
University of Texas Medical School at San Antonio 0.19
University of Cincinnati College of Medicine 0.19
Florida Atlantic University Charles E. Schmidt College of Medicine 0.19
Medical College of Wisconsin 0.19
University of Alabama School of Medicine 0.18
Texas A&M Health Science Center College of Medicine 0.17
University of Texas Medical School at Houston 0.17
Vanderbilt University School of Medicine 0.15
University of Kentucky College of Medicine 0.13
Florida International University Herbert Wertheim College of Medicine 0.12
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine 0.12
University of Florida College of Medicine 0.12
University of Virginia School of Medicine 0.12
University of Central Florida College of Medicine 0.11
Rutgers, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School 0.11
Saint Louis University School of Medicine 0.11
Ohio State University College of Medicine 0.1
University of Chicago - The Pritzker School of Medicine 0.09
Meharry Medical College 0.08

For California medical schools, estimated acceptance rate for Vanderbilt UGs in 2019

Institution Name % acceptance(estimated)
University of California, San Francisco, School of Medicine 0.022
University of California, San Diego School of Medicine 0.0125
Stanford University School of Medicine 0.008
University of California, Irvine, School of Medicine 0.024
Keck School of Medicine of the University of Southern California 0.041

[NoviceDad]

@biomeds

GAP YEARS:
Medical school is a long journey - it typically takes at least 4+4+3 = 11 years and more for certain specialties/ fellowships.

A child is close to 30 or 30+ by the time medical school is complete.

Adding gap years delays this. It is a reality for 60%+ of students.

More than money, it is the personal life that gets impacted.
Kids may be in relationships and looking to get married. Potentially both of them are in different cities and only one of them is doing medicine. I have seen strains in relationships as medical school gets prolonged - especially if one is doing fellowships. Sometimes one of them has to change cities/ jobs just to be together. Adding more years (via gap years) adds to this strain. Sometimes, there is failure on this front.

[srk2017]

@grtd2010 - You really like crunching numbers

Vanderbilt as an UG school is more popular in rest of the country than CA given the cost, location (south) and that we have UCB, UCLA and USC (which gives 50% for NMFs). Given the regional biases among medical schools you see fewer acceptance in CA schools.

Before my S joining Vandy there was only one student from his HS, but now lot of kids apply and Vandy is even visiting his HS!

My son’s school list is completed (planning to apply to 20-25 schools) based on 2017 and 2019 reports and the input from excellent premed advisor (she handled MD/Ph.D admissions at Vandy medical) and waiting for transcript to submit. Everything is slow this year.

[grtd2010]

@srk2017

@grtd2010 - You really like crunching numbers

Vanderbilt as an UG school is more popular in rest of the country than CA given the cost, location (south) and that we have UCB, UCLA and USC (which gives 50% for NMFs). Given the regional biases among medical schools you see fewer acceptance in CA schools.

Before my S joining Vandy there was only one student from his HS, but now lot of kids apply and Vandy is even visiting his HS!

My son’s school list is completed (planning to apply to 20-25 schools) based on 2017 and 2019 reports and the input from excellent premed advisor (she handled MD/Ph.D admissions at Vandy medical) and waiting for transcript to submit. Everything is slow this year.

Can you not submit before transcripts are processed at AMCAS ?

[srk2017]

@grtd2010

@srk2017

@grtd2010 - You really like crunching numbers

Vanderbilt as an UG school is more popular in rest of the country than CA given the cost, location (south) and that we have UCB, UCLA and USC (which gives 50% for NMFs). Given the regional biases among medical schools you see fewer acceptance in CA schools.

Before my S joining Vandy there was only one student from his HS, but now lot of kids apply and Vandy is even visiting his HS!

My son’s school list is completed (planning to apply to 20-25 schools) based on 2017 and 2019 reports and the input from excellent premed advisor (she handled MD/Ph.D admissions at Vandy medical) and waiting for transcript to submit. Everything is slow this year.

Can you not submit before transcripts are processed at AMCAS ?

@grtd2010

@srk2017

@grtd2010 - You really like crunching numbers

Vanderbilt as an UG school is more popular in rest of the country than CA given the cost, location (south) and that we have UCB, UCLA and USC (which gives 50% for NMFs). Given the regional biases among medical schools you see fewer acceptance in CA schools.

Before my S joining Vandy there was only one student from his HS, but now lot of kids apply and Vandy is even visiting his HS!

My son’s school list is completed (planning to apply to 20-25 schools) based on 2017 and 2019 reports and the input from excellent premed advisor (she handled MD/Ph.D admissions at Vandy medical) and waiting for transcript to submit. Everything is slow this year.

Can you not submit before transcripts are processed at AMCAS ?

You can submit, but verification won’t start without transcript(s).

[WayOutWestMom]

Plus AMCAS will not be forwarding applications to medical schools before 7/10 this year. (Instead of the usual 6/24-25.)

AMCAS expects significant processing delays due to:

1. issues with the e-transcript submission service (Parchment)
2. postal service delays
3. fewer employees working on-site
4. the inability of employees to work from home (As part of AMCAS’s hardening of their application database to prevent hacking, employees can only access the database from an on-site, authorized computer.)

[MDHopefulDad]

To the many parents in this forum from CA: I am sure your kids are easily qualified for the UCs - many of them ranked very high for both UG and SOM, higher than most of the BSMD programs. Then there are the IS tuition and IS preference, especially some of them. I am not even going to talk about weather or commute. Are those benefits still not enough to offset the benefit of a “guaranteed” seat via a BSMD route? What’s your thought process?

[srk2017]

@MDHopefulDad

To the many parents in this forum from CA: I am sure your kids are easily qualified for the UCs - many of them ranked very high for both UG and SOM, higher than most of the BSMD programs. Then there are the IS tuition and IS preference, especially some of them. I am not even going to talk about weather or commute. Are those benefits still not enough to offset the benefit of a “guaranteed” seat via a BSMD route? What’s your thought process?

IS tuition is a big factor. As I said before my S said most BSMD programs ae not worth the cost.

I am not sure how much IS UG preference is given by UC medical schools. I heard schools like UCD may give some preference. I doubt UCSF and UCLA give preference is in-state UGs.

[MDHopefulDad]

Per AAMC stats, some 98-99% of UCD and UCR SOM are IS. UCSF/UCLA no obvious preference.
The first two are not as prestigious but still top 40.

[srk2017]

@MDHopefulDad

Per AAMC stats, some 98-99% of UCD and UCR SOM are IS. UCSF/UCLA no obvious preference.
The first two are not as prestigious but still top 40.

I checked MSAR and it shows they only took one non CA resident and one international student last year, but there is no breakdown about IS UG vs Out of state UG. Do you have that breakdown?

[MDHopefulDad]

https://www.aamc.org/media/5976/download
Couldn’t copy the link but it’s the A-1 table.
U.S. Medical School Applications and Matriculants by School, State of Legal Residence, and Sex, 2019-2020

[GoldenRock]

@MDHopefulDad Here are my 2 cents.

If a student can get in to CA SOM it is great, agree it is a great choice especially for CA IS students. Still doing BS/MD in at least few top programs will ace (NU, R/B, Pitt, CWRU) and hence it makes sense to try.

Now, coming to get admission in CA SOM is not an easy task even for IS students. CA produces the maximum number of MD applicants and the competitive students are sizable from CA UG schools. UCLA alone typically have 1000+ applicants every year.

The input is more for the general audience. There are always going to be outliers, like @srk2017 Son. He may get easily in the regular MD in CA itself including UCSF or UCLA. On the other hand outliers, check SDN this year. There are 4 students who have 520+ MACT and have not got a SINGLE admission and going to reapply, including one student 4.0 gpa and 524 MCAT.

Coming to cost, all medical school is expensive. Again, don’t assume some one is going to get merit aid in MD. They are extreme outliers. CA IS fees are expensive, close to $40k fees alone. There are private schools equally similar cost (example - Miami).

Bottom line there is no hard in trying BS/MD if the student has shown any interest in medicine and decide in April to go for BS/MD or Regular UG.

[grtd2010]

The data in https://www.aamc.org/system/files/2019-11/2019_FACTS_Table_A-1.pdf
shows preference for IS candidates e.g. Rutgers-NJMS has 81% IS and 19% OOS matriculants. This data includes very popular NJMS BSMD with OOS applicants. There are similar trends for Rutgers-RWJ and Coopers-Rowan University regular MD. The IS fee is similar to CA IS.

[MDHopefulDad]

@GoldenRock Yes I heard about this too - the competition for CA SOM is fierce. Not only from the like of UCLAs (which itself probably produces the most number of applicants each year), but also kids taking gap year(s). Do you think going to UCD/UCR and be the big fish in a small pond (not school size but academics) will be a easier path ending up in their SOMs?