Call - don’t email.
Depauw may be better for film than Davidson but no one will tell you Depauw because it’d be like picking Hofstra over Harvard.
2 Likes
You basically said IU, without Kelley, isn’t worth it. It might not be right for you - but it is an outstanding university - Kelley or otherwise.
1 Like
@7Steps_22, No career is “for sure” until you’re actually immersed in it. Your undergraduate years are ideally a time for exploration: in the classes you take, the professors that mentor you, the network you connect with, the internships you hold. It’s a process, not an epiphany.
I’d like to explain further the various routes to becoming a licensed architect. Sorry to be so lengthy, but It’s complicated and widely misunderstood.
Licensing requirements are stipulated by the individual states. Most states require either a Bachelor OF architecture or a Master OF Architecture in order to begin the licensing process, which entails a series of exams and documented work experience covering several aspects of design and construction. Some states waive the BArch/MArch requirement and allow licensing with a BS IN Architecture plus extensive work experience. Once an architect is licensed in one state s/he can often become licensed in others by reciprocal agreement or with some additional requirements.
About 40 US schools of architecture offer the Bachelor OF Architecture. Generally this is a 5 year, sequential degree, 6 years with a co-op element. The drop out rate is high in BArch programs as many (most?) high school students have no idea what an architecture education entails. The tech/science kids may find the creative aspects stressful. The creative/arts kids may find the tech/science aspects intimidating.
For these reasons and because the field of architecture has become more complex – new technologies, new materials, new sustainability awareness, new regional and city regulations – many universities have switched from the BArch to the combination of a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science IN architecture or architectural studies plus an MArch. The BA/BS (or BED) + MArch can take from 5 to 7.5 years depending on the policies of the two schools involved.
BArch and MArch programs are accredited by the national architecture board. Within the framework of the required course work that they all offer, there is a good deal of variation in culture and emphasis. Art schools focus more on creativity and design; tech schools on technology and structures; design schools on a balance of both.
BA/BS/BED programs are not accredited (though the MArchs that they flow into usually are) and there is a good deal of variety from program to program.
The undergraduate or pre-baccalaureate MArch is a relatively new phenomenon, found at just a handful of universities. It is, in essence, a compacted BS+MArch. Until recently Design Intelligence didn’t include undergraduate MArchs in their ratings, I think because they didn’t know how to categorize them. I notice that as now the undergraduate MArch at KU will offer a BS to students who have completed the first 4 years of the MArch. So, in effect it’s the same as the BA/BS+MArch, just presented differently.
The Doctorate of Architecture is mostly seen in academia, not practice.
I would stress that many, many people with BS/BA degrees work in architecture and many, many architects with BArchs or MArchs never bother with the licensing process. Architecture is a wide and deep field and there are a lot of niches and adjuncts to architecture careers. Some students choose to go straight through from their BA/BS to an MArch at the same university; some move on to another school of architecture for their MArch, some work for a year or two before heading back to graduate school. There is simply no single best path.
As I said, it’s possible to gain admission to a prestigious MArch program with an undergraduate degree from any college in any discipline as long as you fulfill the entrance requirements. The time it takes to complete the MArch varies widely. 2-3 years is “normal” but there are 1 year degrees and 3.5 year degrees. The process of assigning advanced placement is also extremely variable. Very few MArch programs offer need based aid. Grants are available, though they are difficult to predict.
At some firms where you got your degree is everything. At others it doesn’t matter as long as you can do the work and fit in with the firm’s culture.
The most rigorous and prestigious BA/BS degrees in architecture tend to be at universities that have access to the facilities and faculties of their own schools of architecture. Some LACs and medium sized universities without schools of architecture do offer substantial architecture majors; most offer courses in architectural history in their art history department and architectural design in their art departments.
In answer to your question: My son majored in a combined program of art history and art studio. During his undergraduate years he wavered between pursuing museum work or architecture. He attended a summer career workshop in architecture while in college which was helpful in getting an overview and developing a portfolio. After graduation he worked for a couple of years in the marketing department of a medium sized architecture firm which was extremely helpful in understanding the dynamics of how an actual firm operates.
His MArch class comprised students with a wide range of educational backgrounds, ages and, for some, previous careers in other fields. Most have become licensed practiced architects, though some have gone into related fields such as teaching architecture or developing technology used in architecture.
4 Likes
This.
3 Likes
How did you make this list in the first place? Why would you apply to UCLA, Depauw, BU, and Davidson? That’s all over the place. No wonder you are confused.
If you wanted a specific program, why apply to LACs? If you wanted the coast, why apply to Depauw at all? Architecture is very specific. The only kids I know applying for architecture, did only that - applied to colleges strong in that major. You’re between film and architecture and then…neither? I think you’ll change your mind over and over again. I would pick Davidson. You can specialize after undergrad. You’re not ready to choose.
9 Likes
This is exactly what I would suggest after reading through all of OPs thoughts and concerns. You should get the best, most affordable liberal arts education that you have been offered from among your choices while you figure all this out. You can’t do better than Davidson for that.
2 Likes
The reason my list is like that is because when I was initially applying to colleges, I had no idea what I wanted, so I applied to 40 schools with wide ranges of opportunities, giving me more time to figure out what I was looking for. Fortunately, I have narrowed it down to a few potential career options that I’ve been interested in for years now. Unfortunately, however, those interests aren’t really supported well by liberal arts colleges because they’re niche fields such as Architecture or VFX. As for location, it’s not a huge deciding factor for me (unless it’s in LA because that’s where I’d like to live long-term or if it’s in my hometown because I don’t want to be here). I’ve had the same vague interests in these fields for a while, so I don’t think I’ll suddenly decide to do something completely outside of the interests I’ve already specified. I like Davidson for the exploration, but really, it doesn’t have a specific program that I’m interested in enough to be spending almost 100k of my parents money on it is all. I’m starting to like BU as an option more. It encourages exploration (not as much as an LAC, but it still does) and it has programs that I actually am interested in studying. It’s still debt, but less than half the debt I would incur from UCLA.
You can’t afford BU.
So it shouldn’t be in your consideration set.
You have to remove any school you can’t afford.
The debt of BU and UCLA is strangling. This is where you have a disconnect - you have no idea what debt will do to your day to day. There’s zillions of stories on line.
A major does not equal a career - so the fact that Davidson doesn’t have a specific career interest does not mean you cannot get to your career interest from there.
Spending $100K at Davison is far better than spending much much more at BU.
4 Likes
Would I not have to take on much more debt if I went to Davidson and then decided to go to grad school than I would if I just went to BU and decided to specialize now and not wait until grad school?
You can’t think about grad school. You have no idea how life will play out.
You continue to try and justify the unjustifiable.
You will saddle your family (not you) with unaffordable debt.
1 Like
Note that his parents were actually pressuring him to take on the UCLA debt. They seem to have a comfort level with their projected pension income, etc. and taking some parent loans. The magnitude of the UCLA loans would be ridiculous and I think we’ve all made our opinions clear on that point. The magnitude of the BU loans, while still not ideal, is less horrifying. It’s absolutely fine for any of us to say “I still think that’s too much,” but ultimately it is up to the OP and his parents. If anything, it appears that the OP is the one looking for a less-burdensome compromise. We don’t (and shouldn’t) know the details of the parents’ financial situation. It’s really up to them to figure out what is justifiable.
3 Likes
I am confused on how one option would leave my parents with unaffordable debt while the other wouldn’t. If I go to Davidson, they’re contributing 100k, and if I go to BU, they’re contributing 100k and cosigning on an additional 27k. I’m fully confident that I can pay off my debts, it’s just that debt could potentially limit my career options. Regardless of who legally is responsible for the debt, I’m obligated to pay it off and will do so either way.
Does the 100k they are contributing exist in cash savings or a 529 or some other easily accessible form? Sorry, I thought BU meant an additional 56k in loans beyond the 100k in cash.
If you’re talking about being responsible for 27k of debt after graduation, that seems reasonable to me.
For BU, I think this means the parents would take $27,000 in loans (hoping that is for all four years), plus the student would take the $27,000 in Direct Loans…for a grand total in loans of about $54,000.
@7Steps_22 is that correct?
Actually, this isn’t true.
Your parents are obligated to pay off any loans they take in their name only.
You are required to pay off the Direct Loan which is in your name only.
Ok, how about this.
-
Call Boston University today. Email them a copy of Davidson’s offer. Tell them that BU is your first choice, but it’s not affordable for you. If they’ll meet Davidson’s offer, you will accept. See what they say & do. Hopefully, they will make it affordable for you to attend.
-
Pick your favorite affordable college (one where you don’t take out any loans). Request a medical deferral. Take a gap year. Now that you have a better idea of what you want to study, find schools that are a better fit. (Again, I’m going to recommend Drury as an option to investigate as it has an accredited architecture program, opportunities in film, etc, and there’s a parkour community right there, and it would allow you to explore and combine various areas of interest.) Do some job shadowing and campus visits at some of the colleges. See what ends up happening next spring. If nothing better turns up, you have a spot at an affordable price at your favorite liberal arts school.
1 Like
Let’s step back.
Davidson is $24K a year. No debt.
BU is $39.5K per year according to an earlier post.
So that’s $62K additional - and that assumes there isn’t inflation - hmmmm - and there is and schools will be raising. Ask the Elon kids paying 9% more this year.
Here’s the other thing - at BU - you will be moving off campus at some point. You will try and get an RA but it’s far more likely you’ll be moving off campus. Look at off campus housing in Boston.
So what you say is an additional $27K seems to be $62K to me in total cost. Not sure where your $27K came from. $27K is simply the amount you can borrow over 4 years - which is not $62K. So where did you place the other $35K?
And BU, just to live, is going to cost far far far more.
Your parents are ok. So I suppose that’s fair - but that’s a strangling amount of debt.
Here’s the other thing - college costs more than they tell you. I estimate $3-5K per year - why - school medical stinks - you get private doctors. You’re homesick - trips home. Tired of the dining hall…you eat out. Red Sox games. Train trip to NYC. Everyone is going away spring break…need film equipment…whatever it is and you can say, I won’t need this this and that but you will.
So since you are paying back your folks - I’m telling you that’s a staggering amount of debt. Not UCLA levels - but staggering nonetheless.
And your costs in Boston will far exceed what you’re imagining.
That’s my opinion.
Moving on - good luck to you.
But on one hand you keep saying - you’re not angling for UCLA (or BU) - you’re just playing counter attack because the debate is so one sided.
Yet it’s clear that you intend to enroll at one of those - so you’re trying to justify it.
If that’s what you choose, I wish you will. I hope you’re next Spielberg or Super Dave Osborne (stunt person) or wherever it is you end up.
2 Likes
My kid lived off campus at BU. Frankly, his off campus cost (including food, utilities, etc) was less than the upperclass apartments on the BU campus (which are beautiful, by the way). The rub was, it was a 12 month lease and my kid wasn’t there any summer. He subletted for two years and really it was sort of a headache. But it worked financially. He shared a three bedroom apartment with three additional people to keep costs down. But they were very good friends in the same major.
But having said all of that…Boston IS an expensive city.
3 Likes
Yes, this is accurate. Probably more like 57k.
I meant more like morally obligated. I’m going to end up being the one paying off the additional loans they cosign on for me.