<p>After attending this past weekend’s “Campus Day” events, my son’s best friend is torn between Wake and Bucknell. (S will be attending Wake, but we’re trying to not influence the friend’s decision.) </p>
<p>Any advice from all you knowledgeable cc’rs out there on how to choose between Bucknell and Wake?? (He’s a possible English major and a good actor/musician…especially interested in hearing from anyone with knowledge of the English major at Bucknell.) </p>
<p>Thanks!!!</p>
<p>Where are you from? I think the Bucknell name is more respected in the northeast vs Wake Forest, but maybe not as much in the South.</p>
<p>S was accepted to both last year and chose Bucknell. His decision was based upon a number of reason, but the most prominent were:
1. He felt the theatre department was truly interested in him and he thought it was a small enough department that he could get involved and feel at home during his freshman year. After year one he has determined that he made the right choice.
2. He wanted to be taught by professors and not graduate assistants and that was a given at Bucknell. He is double majoring in mathmatics.
3. Throughout the whole information/application process, Bucknell seemed to be the best at returning calls and emails, understanding special circumstances and being the most personable. </p>
<p>As his father, I wanted the decision to be his as he was the one that was going to be living whereever he chose for the next four years and although I would have been happy no matter what school he chose (Wake is a great school as well), I did some pretty good tongue biting during the process.
The only downside is that Bucknell is a six hour drive and Wake is just over two for us.
It all boils down to fit when you are comparing two great schools.</p>
<p>I respectfully disagree with gellino ... about 180 deg. This is the prototypical NE provincialism @ work. WFU has become a nationally recognized up and coming institution since abandoning the Southern Baptist Convention some 25+ years ago ... BU is a fine NE next tier (from the Ivies) that often seem satisfied with being just that. WFU is a genuine U with management, law, med schools and several so so Ph.D. programs. Bucknell is a fine LAC with an engineering and business programs, and virtually no grad programs, which is probably a real plus for BU. BU is obviously captured by the idea of investing in its faculty to the detriment of other potential strategic areas (students, curricula, etc.) WFU needs and has an endowment about twice BU's. WFU students come from a far more diverse universe, including some but not overwhelmingly South and NE students. BU has relatively fewer Southern. It's a predominantly NE school. And unfortunately BU has the one severe limitation it will never be able to overcome ... location. Quaint, lovely, bucholic but 4 hours from any major metro area. A major reason there's a major Fed prison there and several others just up the road. No where to run, few to malign even if you do get out. The enlightened BU clientele don't mesh well with the "unsophisticated" local Mennonites or prison employees, so town gown relations are not idyllic although the Susque Rio and mountains truly are. Auto and Greyhound are the major entrees to lovely Lewisburg unless you own a helicopter. Watch out for the Amish buggies if you're coming from the west. BU's major draw in athletics has been bball but their longtime coach quit last week, so that's up for grabs as coaching in the Patriot League is monumentally challenging with only a few scholarships. Fortunately, BU's athletic grants are all in men's and women's hoops. But so are the competitors. So aside from the occasional anomaly like the tall Brit that carried the Bison a few years back, that's a ho hum spectating event. </p>
<p>WFU is in a growing metro corridor and one of the wealthiest cities in the South, thanks to the buyout of RJR a few decades back. Made many millionaires for the region among the many bluecollared cigarette stuffing employees. A major med center with Baptist and WFU Med School. The arts capital of NC with the School for the Arts there. Of course WFU plays big time athletics and of late has even been competitive in football, though that's probably a momentary blip on the Demon Deacon radar screen. ONe of the traditionally top golf, hoops schools anywhere. Arnie Palmer put the golf gig there on the map, and Jesse Haddock kept it rolling although there's a lot more competition today in that arena. WFU is monumentally more challenging academically, noted for little or no grade inflation. Both places have attempted to squelch/contain the Greek scene, and WFU seems to have done a little better job principally because there's just a whole lot more alternative activity there than in Lewisburg. Greek is about it for a great many. Now, if you wanna be a chem eng in a traditional undergrad program, BU is the only game of the two. If you prefer a great science education in a 3-2 scenario with an eng degree from a name program, then WFU's probalbly the better bet.</p>
<p>Let me return to my initial observation. I believe gelino, while believing what's been shared, is classic NE provincialism. Only in Philly would one think BU has a bigger "name" than WFU ... and then only if whoever one's talking to is not a basketball player.</p>
<p>Lastly, many WFU rejected students end up at BU. Rarely does a BU rejected student get into or enroll at WFU. </p>
<p>Both are very fine schools where one can learn French, calculus and chemistry from the same text book and perhaps even Ph.D. school classmates teaching it. Over time though, even this will be a major WFU advantage. Ask the BU Provost what it's like trying to hire faculty couples, where the spouse too is highly educated and does not find working as a prison counselor at Allensville Fed lockup to be a reasonable career option even if his spouse gets that tenure track slot in psych at BU. And if they have offers at both, where do you think they'll go? You got it.</p>
<p>WOW WhistlePig,
Interesting tone to your post. As I mentioned in my first post, there were many reasons my son chose Bucknell. One that I didn't mention was that he really loved Lewisbug compared to W-S. Like I said before, both great schools and you have to choose one that fits.</p>
<p>First off Wake Forest is a great school and congratulations to your son! However, WhistlePig is wrong to imply that Bucknell is academically inferior to Wake. </p>
<p>Just a quick glance at the stats in the 2008 US News & World Report's College Rankings issue will tell you that the schools are very similar. Although, Bucknell's Acceptance Rate is listed as 33% compared to WFU at 43%.</p>
<p>My daughter considered both schools and decided on Bucknell for many reasons... she loved the size and rural surroundings. They are 2 things that really lend to a strong sense of community on the campus. But there are many students who would prefer a larger University setting with the benefits of a city close by. It's all about fit and that's why it's so important to spend some time on each campus.</p>
<p>whistle, youre obviously not a fan of actually looking at the data before making your wild claims. and frankly, its getting kind of old.</p>
<p>1) wake forest does NOT have a more geographically diverse student body than bucknell. first, wake is currently enrolling a larger percentage of students from north carolina than bucknell from pennsylvania. this is a bit surprising since pennsylvania is nearly 40% larger than north carolina. proportionately, bucknell also enrolls a greater number of students from the midwest, west and abroad than wake forest and a greater proportion of students from the south than wake from new england.</p>
<p>bucknell is also a more socio-economically more diverse institution, enrolling significantly more pell grant recipients every year than wake, despite having freshman classes over 200 students smaller. bucknell also awards need-based financial aid to more students (per capita), with larger average grants-in-aid and lower average student indebtedness upon graduation. (but those facts would get in the way of the argument that bucknell doesnt care about financial aid... err, students... no? just as the fact that bucknell offers significantly more undergraduate programs would, too... right?)</p>
<p>oh, and bucknell claims more religious and ethnic diversity, as well.</p>
<hr>
<p>is wake forest closer to an urban center? absolutely.</p>
<p>does wake forest have a larger endowment? yes. but how much of that endowment is earmarked for the professional programs (specifically the law and medical schools) that do relatively little to benefit the undergraduate population? cut out that money and adjust on a per-student basis and, all of a sudden, the numbers probably arent so different, either. who-da thunk. </p>
<p>does wake forest have less grade inflation that bucknell? yes. does that necessarily make it a more challenging academic institution? no. and is that necessarily a good thing when applying to graduate school or looking for a good job? again, no. (i will admit, however, that im not a fan of grade inflation. in that sense, wakes stance is commendable, even if not smart.)</p>
<p>does wake have a larger greek population (in absolute and per capita terms) than bucknell? yes.</p>
<p>does wake win the cross-admit battle with bucknell? doubtful, though i dont know anyone on this board who would actually know for sure. what we do know is that the students who ultimately enroll at bucknell and wake forest have similar academic credentials (sat scores are virtually identical, bucknell has higher proportion in top high school decile), making a claim that bucknell admits are 'rarely' admitted to wake farcical, especially considering the fact that wakes acceptance rate is significantly higher.</p>
<p>does wake have stronger athletics? sure. but bucknells GERMAN did not carry those teams. after all, it wasnt chris mcnaughton who won the patriot league player of the year award in 2006. it was a pre-scholarship player, charles lee. </p>
<hr>
<p>all that said, wake forest is a fine institution. does it have more of a 'southern' feel than bucknell? certainly. do i feel that somehow makes it worse? no. but its different. as such, for anyone not majoring in engineering (3-2 programs are ALWAYS a bad, bad idea), it simply makes sense to go with ones gut. if thats wake, fine. if thats bucknell, fine. simply, i dont see how either decision could be the wrong one.</p>
<p>There would seem to be some difference(s) of opinion on this topic. Aside from being straightened out that McNaughton matriculated from the Motherland rather than GB, I'll stand by my observations. Even that he was the essential, critical factor that BU had one magical season, for sure. Charlie lee was fine and necessary but Mac made it all possible, you can be sure.</p>
<p>I agree, for a few Lewisburg, Dutch buggies and busing from Harrisburg or State College are the tickets. Great. That's what makes the world work. But for many more 18 year old sophisticates, that's only a good plan B option, i.e. if they don't get into HYPs, Tufts, Stanford, even WFU, etc. Not bad, just not what the dream vision was.</p>
<p>While loyalty is admirable, what this may reflect is what marketers call post-purchase rationalization. One has dire need to defend one's purchase, which in BU's case is among the top 6 costliest "purchases" in the higher ed planet, and most buyers paying sticker price or darn close. There is a huge need to defend vs. analyze the issues. Can't afford to know there might be another answer. And then "tone" and "one's gut" become critical to the defense when facts lead in a different direction. :eek:</p>
<p>I am now depressed. Not only is my son going to Bucknell instead of Wake, he is not a sophisticate. Two strikes against him and he is only 18 years old. He made the mistake of wanting to be $60,000 less in debt by choosing Bucknell over Wake. He made the mistake of thinking that a southern boy could fit in at an snobby northern school. I knew I should have guided him better. Maybe I will do better with the next son. :)</p>
<p>with bucknell only being more geographically, socio-economically, ethnically and religiously diverse than wake, whistle, on precisely what basis are you basing your 'observation' that wake is the more diverse institution?</p>
<p>and on that note, id like to know why you feel the same about your 'observation' that bucknell and wake cross-admits rarely choose bucknell. (and, for that matter, why so few people apply to wake in the first place.)</p>
<p>of course, the real question is why you have fallen so out of love with bucknell over the last month. after all, you did 'love virtually everything' about it not so long ago. </p>
<hr>
<p>and im not rationalizing my educational decision, whistle, as no rationalization is necessary. i know i got a great education. and i know im not alone. after all, the school in pennsylvania with 'inferior' science programs does produce more eventual phds than the one in north carolina, with its apparently 'superior' offerings.</p>
<p>and again, this isnt to say that wake is horrible. its not. im just not sure how anyone could claim it is vastly superior as an educational institution. if im honestly missing something about this less diverse school that produces fewer phds, and youre not just upset that your daughtor didnt get the financial aid package from bucknell you felt she deserved, please feel free to let me know.</p>
<p>As a Bucknell alum and soon-to-be parent of a Bison, I am very proud of my loyalty to a truly special school. </p>
<p>I respectfully request that Whistlepig take-up whatever grudge he/she has with Bucknell elsewhere as his/her negative commentary is getting in the way of students and parents who are trying their best to sort through what can be a very complicated decision making process. In addition, if you fact-check the WPig commentary, you will find that it is filled with fabrication.</p>
<p>Heididoe – You are a great mom to try to help your son’s friend with his decision. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about Bucknell but I am admittedly biased.</p>
<p>Kaliegh3.....AMEN....Thank you.</p>
<p>And Eric, thanks for remaining calm and informative.</p>
<p>Whistle Pig: I just spent some time reviewing many of your posts, and Eric is more than correct in seeing an undeniable change in your posts regarding Bucknell. Shame on you for using this site to rant and offer untruths. If you have a particular beef with Bucknell that you would like to share, that is one thing. I'm listening, and would welcome your insite regarding that situation. But please move on if you can't participate as an adult. We are here to become informed students and parents. We need thoughtful input and feedback so that we can make well informed decisions. Eric: Bravo to you!</p>
<p>My HS senior son was admitted to both Wake Forest and Bucknell, and just decided on Bucknell. We visited both schools and found them to be comparable in many respects. </p>
<p>First and foremost, hes looking for a quality liberal arts education with engaging professors. Beyond that, he wants a school where he can see himself spending four years. That means an appealing campus environment that is easy on the eyes; bright, friendly & athletic students who also like to have fun; strong sports traditions; good campus facilities; etc. Bucknell and Wake both fit the bill, though if I were to quibble I would say Bucknell has a nicer overall campus. In particular, it has a newer student athletic center and better Biology buildings, two areas my son paid attention to during his campus visits. </p>
<p>He was also turned off by the work forest reputation that he kept hearing at WFU, not because of the work per se, but because (some) Wake students complained about excessive busywork given by certain Profs to preserve the grade deflation that Wake is notorious for. </p>
<p>His academic interest is Biology and possibly pre-med. He also was admitted to Vanderbilt, William & Mary, Denison, and some safeties. In the end, it came down to Wake, Vandy and Bucknell. Cost was definitely a factor, but we received no need-based aid. I was hoping he would land some merit aid. As it turned out, Bucknell did offer some merit $$, while Wake and Vandy did not. That made the decision easier. </p>
<p>To be fair, if Wake had offerred the merit aid and Bucknell had not, he would probably be headed to Wake. If neither, he might have moved down the list to a less expensive school. </p>
<p>During the process Ive been very impressed with the professional and personal correspondence from Bucknell. They are organized and everything is first class. The recent admitted students weekend at Bucknell closed the deal for him. </p>
<p>By the way, we live in the western US, so access to Lewisburg is no picnic for us. But it is such a great campus setting, he figures the extra travel is worth it.</p>
<p>Thank you to all for your thouhtful and detailed posts! I have steered my s's friend and his parents to this thread, as it is sure to be quite helpful as they make their decision (which they have to do pretty soon!). Don't know what I'd do without cc, when it comes to getting info like this! Thanks again to all.</p>
<p>Please tell us you're pulling our collective leg, Heidihoe.:eek: If CC is bringing life-changing advice and wisdom, well, one might need to get a ....</p>
<p>More reliable, credible source of information. ;)</p>
<p>Good luck to your boy's pal and parents.</p>
<p>Whistle Pig...I was a lurker on cc for several years before my first d went to college, and I learned a lot of things they don't tell you in the guide books and on the tours. Actually, your posts have been edifying on several occasions. Thanks again for the advice! :)</p>
<p>jk, of course. biggest fish I ever caught on the Allegheny @ the mouth of Redbank creek was a lurker. she was a monster. still is, only now she's my wife! :eek: correction: I'm her hub/slave! :(</p>