Building Lists from the "Safety" on Beyond

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi, everyone, </p>

<p>As summer begins, class of 2008 high school students can shift their attention from their high school environment to the world outside. When college applying time comes around, do you think your kids will have a college list that includes a "safety" (sure bet) college to guarantee admission somewhere suitable? In a much earlier CC thread, I defined a safety school as a school that</p>

<p>1) is pretty much certain to admit my kid, based on its known behavior in acting on admission applications,</p>

<p>2) has a strong program in an area my kid is interested in,</p>

<p>3) is affordable based on its known behavior in acting on financial aid applications,</p>

<p>and</p>

<p>4) is likeable to my kid. </p>

<p>When I first posted that definition, I thought that my local state university still admits "by the numbers," as it did when I was a high school student. Today, the state flagship university claims to practice "holistic admission," which means that any applicant could, in principle, be denied for any reason or no reason at all. But in practice I think that applicants with the right numbers are still admitted quite automatically there, so I think it is a safety school for a lot of the young people I know here. We have friends whose children have entered the State U honors program and thrived there and liked it a lot. </p>

<p>How about you? Has your child found a suitable safety school to serve as the keystone of his or her college application list? What is likeable about that school? How did your child find it? </p>

<p>If your child hasn't find a safety school to apply to yet, what do you think is the best way to encourage him or her to find one? What advice do you have for other parents about helping students build college application lists that avoid disappointment next April?</p>

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<p>High school guidance counselors tend to be very well informed on the state university system in their own state. Your child's GC would probably be able to tell you straight out whether it is reasponable for your child to consider the state university to be a safety school.</p>

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<p>I found two sure bet safeties, but it was easy based on my son's stats and interests. One of them (RPI) is rapidly becoming less safe though. It appeared on Newsweek's list of 25 new Ivy's and acceptance rate went from 75% to 40% in just one year! :eek: This particular school, also had a special application that worked somewhat liked rolling admissions. They promised to give you a result three weeks after they received your first quarter senior grades. At any rate it was a good fit, provided merit money had we needed it, and based on past acceptance history at our school it looked like a sure bet, and it was.</p>

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<p>the safety on my d's list was our state flagship school. they were interested in her because of her NMF status and had extended an offer of a merit award if she were to list them as her first choice school with NMC. She also was accepted into the school's Honors Program which required a separate application. this is something to check into: does the Honors College or Honors Program require a separate application and what is the deadline for that application?</p>

<p>I think when looking at safeties, it's important to note what are their admissions deadlines? Do they have EA available? Do they have rolling admissions?</p>

<p>Knowing early on in the process that the student is accepted can be a big plus.</p>

<p>tokenadult,
I really like the search options on Peterson's College Search website. You can sort by admission selectivity, i.e., very difficult, moderately difficult, etc. and also include gpa.</p>

<p>I suggest that now is a good time for students to familiarize themselves with the common application website. I think there is a way to see a comprehensive listing of admission deadlines and types (EA, ED, Regular, Rolling ) for the participating schools but I don't have the link. Does anyone on cc have that link that they can provide? Note if a supplemental application will be required.</p>

<p>Start now, perhaps using a spreadsheet, keeping track of all the deadlines for both admissions and honors programs/honors colleges for the schools that are of interest.</p>

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<p>frankly- in another age, most of the schools where I am going to encourage my D to investigate would be "safety" schools.</p>

<p>That is, admit more than 50% of students, her grades ( if not test scores- she doesn't test well) are above the median and it is affordable, even with out lots of aid.
However, I think it is more difficult now to anticipate the admit rate and who will be admitted.</p>

<p>While I would like to agree with Marian, re the high school counselor, my D high school- while one of the top public high schools in the city and the state if not the region, also has had a new head guidance counselor, every year, for the past three years.( and has at least 400 students to cover) I won't hold my breath, to see if he will stay for next year.
I think he is informed, but I also realize that the universities have changed their admittance policies .
Just in the past few years, the flagship school has changed from auto admit to "holistic", at the same time they have reduced the numbers of community college students with AA certificates that they will accept.
Schools need money, and Im wondering, if a full pay out of state student could be looked at as more attractive, than a student who is subsidized. Even though I know that supposedly the reverse is true.
( there is a school that admits over 50% that I think could be an interesting school, although D isn't too interested in it- the buildings are too utilitarian looking- she had a rugby tournament there earlier this spring)</p>

<p>But so far, we are also still planning for D to take a year off, and while it isn't a decision to increase the level of school that would be a good match, I think it may have that effect.
However- I am on the fence about even looking at some schools that
I don't really want her to go to-
because of the area- high pollution, she has asthma- and I don't think we could afford it/she would be accepted
I really don't even want to look there,but I am hoping that if we look, she may see for herself that it isn't quite what she had in mind- although it also might backfire and she falls in love with it.</p>

<p>I am seriously pushing the " good fit schools though"
and rolling admissions is a good reminder- plus it will get some of the apps out of the way.
( How did this happen? She will be a senior in a few months? It wasn't that long ago that her sisters counselor was suggesting Linfield- she ended up at another Oregon school though)</p>

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<p>One of our kids applied to the LAC where my H and I attended. Even as a double legacy there are no guarantees, but that's a way to at least earn a few extra points. We didn't push it on her, either. In fact it was the last place she visited, wanting not to be a legacy. Then she fell in love with it, applied ED and was accepted. So don't "not" apply just b/c your folks went there. You also need the stats, of course. But once you're in the school, nobody will have remembered teaching your parents -- probably those teachers have retired or almost. </p>

<p>Another kid is about to go to a film major at a university. The performing arts majors, and the BFA programs, can be so competitive. For those, experienced CC advisors -- SoozieVT is the champion -- say there's no such thing as a true safety, especially where auditions or portfolio submissions are required with the application.</p>

<p>Therefore, a way to make it "safe-r" is to apply to more of them (watching out for the rigorous audition season when you have to run from place to place early in the new year of your senior year... and read a lot on the "Musical Theater Major" site she moderates (go to Discussion and dial down to Majors threads). The wisdom on it applies to many kinds of performing degrees, not just Musical Theater.</p>

<p>To that, I'd add that a "safety" approach we used for the film school candidate was to include a few schools where he could get a B.A. in a related major that was not as popular as a film major. Pros and cons of doing this, but if he hadn't gotten into any film school, at least he'd have a college to go to and not have "nowhere to go" and a gap year forced upon him. Gap years are great but better if you choose that path. So if you see a department that could relate to filmmaking or theater performance majors , such as English, Film Studies (all about film, as a critic would study it), History or even a new Interdisciplinary or "Digital Communications" new-age major, that's a safety for
film or theater creative types. At least it'll get you out of your parents' house
next year ;) </p>

<p>Anyway, performance isn't as analytical as the academic majors, and yet a college degree is very valuable. Find out by asking if you can audition and perform in plays or whether the parts only (or mostly) go to theater majors, so you aren't disappointed.
With plenty of stage time at a college, even if it's not famous for the performing arts, you might be eligible to transfer, go to graduate school for an MFA, work in the field anyway...</p>

<p>I don't think anyone should apply to a list of only film or theater programs, even if that's your passion. </p>

<p>PS His happy outcome: applied to 8, accepted at 2, one waitlisted him for film but put him into the Interdisciplinary major ("Culture and Communications") that he'd have taken had it been his only choice. Is majoring in Screenwriting, which has somewhat better stats for acceptance (usually 25%) than directing/filmmaking (8-10%).</p>

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<p>My son's safety wass a school he loved but was not as competitive as others we investigated. It was also a good fit for him. His SAT's were above their 75%, and the school is SAT optional. Financially (we do need aid) the school is need blind and promises to meet 100% of financial need. It is also EA, which eliminated the need for other safeties. All his other schools were reaches (top 20 unis and LAC's) because he was accepted to his safety EA.</p>

<p>Results of "reach" applications: Acceptances: 4, Rejections: 3, Waitlist: 2.
Therefore, he won't be going to his safety, although he would have been haapy to. BTW two of the three rejections were at institutions that are not nned blind. He probably should have saved the cost and not appled (These two were his least favorite.)</p>

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<p>The phrase "meets 100% of need" has come up in this discussion.</p>

<p>It's important to realize that this means "meets 100% of what the school thinks your kid's need is, and even then part of the need may be 'met' by loans" (except for a very few schools that do not include loans in their financial aid packages.</p>

<p>It does not mean "meets 100% of what you think your kid's need is."</p>

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<p>my son has decided that since he is taking a gap year and the school he attends limits colleges application to only 5 per student, he will not be applying to any school that he really doesn't want to attend -- and that means no safety. His theory is that if he isn't accepted into any of his schools he can reapply the following year and include at least one safety. He explained to me that if he was denied for all the schools on his list and accepted into his safety (which would be our flagship U) he would still reapply again to schools in January of the gap year and the flagship U doesn't defer admissions -- so he didn't see the point to applying the first year. I made sense, but makes me a little uneasy!</p>

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<p>Tokenadult, Your criteria are pretty much exactly what DS1 used in assembling his entire list. The "likely to admit" part is the big variable, but he has worked so that his scores, ECs, etc. will get him a serious look wherever he applies. None of his schools have over a 50% admit rate -- even the state flagship -- though he is >75% SAT percentile at every school. On the other hand, we know many kids who have gone to the flagship with top scores, grades, national ECs, etc., turning down Ivies, etc. in the process, and have been happy and challenged. The school does a terrific job of recruiting and personalizing the state flagship experience for this group of kids. "Excellence in his intended major" is a huge criteria -- but what DS has found is that each school offers a slightly different road to get to his goal. At some schools, he'd be in one major, other schools a different one, and he would double major at some others. He has also found that talking to kids who have participated in some of the same ECs are good for bouncing off thoughts about curriculum, fit, etc. What attracted them to program X may be some of the same criteria that attracted them to College Y -- and it's interesting to hear their perspectives.</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>Yes, that is one of the most useful things about pursuing an extracurricular activity that includes older students. They can be a source of college lore and help round out your child's application list.</p>

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<p>Bumping the thread to hear more ideas from parents about how to build a college application list that includes reasonable "safety" colleges.</p>

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<p>I am compiling the list with my daughter now. She has gone through 2 revisions since spring. Some of this is due to a change in her focus of studies, but also due to what her friends went through this past year in their college process. Many schools once thought to be shoe ins are now bumping their requirements up so that the top students are even being rejected or waitlisted. I am talking about huge land grant universities in the midwest-state flaghip schools. My oldest daughter graduated from OSU 3 years ago and she got into every one of those schools. Now friends of daughter #2 have much better scores than daughter #1, longers lists of ECs, and they were waitlisted or rejected. I am beginning to think that there isn't so much of a safety any longer when it comes to the larger state schools. Students are doing much better at small private schools as their safeties.</p>

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<p>Of the 7 "safe" schools we looked at, my son chose to apply to 2 that were located near interesting cities and had unusually outstanding international programs. He got into both EA with significant merit money. Considering how anxious I was about the admissions process, I HATE to think how I would have felt without those safeties "in the bag".</p>

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<p>
[quote]
4) is likeable to my kid.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>One question that this criterion raises is how much effort to put into the research and visitation of safeties before the April 1 notifications. I don't know the answer to this question. </p>

<p>It can be tempting to view safeties as last resorts in the unlikely event that the student doesn't get into a "better" school. With this attitude, it seems like wasted effort to spend the time and energy to visit the schools in the "safety" category. I have to confess that we had a little bit of that attitude this past year, and I hope not to make that mistake with my second child. I now believe it is a good idea to spend the effort up front to find a high-probability-of-acceptance school that is a good fit for the individual. (I am trying to remove the phrase "safety school" from my vocabulary before we start the next search process.) It may well turn out to be a better fit than the more selective schools on the list for a variety of reasons.</p>

<p>I also think it is a good to have more than one high-prob school on the list for additional security (as was mentioned earlier in this thread), particularly if your situation is a little out of the ordinary (e.g. mismatched scores/GPA, unusual HS situation, limited-enrollment major, "Tufts Syndrome" schools, etc.) Of course, when significant financial aid is needed, a longer list may even be desirable.</p>

<p>And I agree with bethievt--those EA schools with merit money are awfully nice to have in the hip pocket, and they take some of the sting out of the rejections!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I now believe it is a good idea to spend the effort up front to find a high-probability-of-acceptance school that is a good fit for the individual.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Indeed. I hope that every applicant in the next school year's graduating class finds a college like that in time to apply.</p>

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<p>Perhaps a more rational list should be from the top down. For those who wish to attend some of the highly selective colleges, flag-ship state universities in many states may not be appealing to such students. Likewise, for some students, flag-ship state universities may be a reach. </p>

<p>Most colleges use a rational admission process that is reasonably tansparent/predictable. It should be sufficient to have two or three places that are matches where one is soldily in the 60-75 percentile of a class.</p>

<p>In practice, one is trying to attend one's dream school, and safeties should be satisfactory alternatives.</p>

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<p>One of my sons fell in love with his safety and is now happily enrolled for the fall. His stats were very good but he just felt right about the University. It is a public out of state flagship and they met 100% of need. I never assume a safety is not the right school or the dream school.</p>

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<p>Another way to get a sense of where "kids with numbers like mine" is to see if your local high school publishes a list of who's going where (or even better, who was accepted where, via EA, ED, or RD, and with partial/full merit). Sometimes it's possible to glean this info from the student newspaper, a bulletin board in the guidance office, the students themselves, or some angel parents of older students who pass on the acquired wisdom of the realm. DS1 even asked the professors/coodinators of nationally known ECs that he's involved with where grads who participated get into college.</p>

<p>Naviance does this to a fair extent, and protects privacy, but sometimes it's nice to know the "who" so one can get a sense of where kids with similar interests/scores applied. 50%tile scores tell one so little about the actual students or decisions involved.</p>

<p>This is not intended to start a debate over the privacy issues involved -- but it's another resource that might be available with some diligence.</p>

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<p>with regard to "likeable to my kid" -I think it falls into same catagory as good fit as far as I can tell. We went through this 2 years ago with DD and the outcome of her applications left a bit to be desired. 3 rejections 3 Waitlists and 2 acceptances at "safeties". One was flagship state U that would have been an absolute last choice. Other safety she applied to without ever visiting. She applied based on the schools profile online and what others told her. When we visited in April, she absolutely hated it. She didn't "fit" in at all. It was a poor match. With DS we are going all out in the search for several schools that will be a "likely admit" for him. While his friends are off visiting top 25 LAC's we are busily visiting the schools buried towards the bottom, looking for the prize gems should he have the same results DD did. I am sure he will end up applying to some of those top 25 schools as well, but hopefully we also will have one or two in the hip pocket early in the game. I do not want to go through another April like we did two years ago!
By the way, DD did get off the waitlist at her number 2 choice!</p>