<p>well, its not that i'm terrible at math, i just can't imagine myself doing higher level stuff. I've already completed calc 1 and calc 2 with an A and a B respectively but i really don't want to continue on.</p>
<p>Don't let Ryan scare you off from marketing because of math. The math involved in brand management is simple at worst. You do occassionally spend time poring over Nielsen figures and you will start off doing some "tactical" things (doing the grunt work for the actual Brand Manager) but even then, nothing difficult math-wise. Some areas of market research do become quant-heavy though. </p>
<p>Companies like Johnson & Johnson don't ask potential brand assistants absurd mental math problems like Ibanks do.</p>
<p>They ask:</p>
<p>You own a christmas tree farm, what could you do to increase your market share?</p>
<p>And things like that.</p>
<p>Made a longer post about Marketing/Advertising here:</p>
<p>Assistant brand managers at companies like P&G may not face the complexity of quantitative and accounting issues that investment bankers face, but they spend a significant amount of time crunching numbers, detailing projections, reading financial statements, working with the people in the finance function at their company (and being conversant in the language of finance and accounting) and then taking responsibility for and standing behind the numbers that they come up with.</p>
<p>sally's exactly right. It's obvious marketing is extremely important in P&G and it is the focus of the entire organization, thus must know finance in and out. However, it's not to say that it's anything like the intense ibanking or consultanting quant skills need to succeed on those fields. At P&G, while many of the basic skills are needed (financial statement analysis, accounting, AC Nielson data pulling and graphing), many of their skills are learned on the job, hence the reason why P&G also relies on their internship program to train prospective interns to hit the ground running from the get go.</p>
<p>Sally,</p>
<p>If you become an assistant brand manager with P&G you will spend a lot more time interfacing with Sales or R&D than you will with the finance department. When an assistant brand manager needs a "reality check" they send them out for Sales Training. Not finance training.</p>
<p>We're talking algebra-level math here. However that doesn't mean that taking Calculus and more advanced math courses in college is a waste of time for a Marketer. MBA Admissions Officers are always concerned about Marketer's math skills because they know marketers are the creative-qualitative type. They worry a Marketer might not be able to handle some of the quant-heavy courses in the core curriculum. Some advanced math or finance/accounting courses on your transcript really helps to alleviate their concern.</p>
<p>No marketer is going to be impressed if you can do 66x66 in your head during an interview. He's not going to care if you know what a "long-bond" is either. But it is crucial that you know: "What is a brand?". And he would be impressed if he asked you to: "Envision a new product in your household and walk me through the launching of it into the marketplace" and you come up with something interesting. They're looking for creativity and logic-based thinking. Creative solutions to real-world problems. Leadership ability and good judgement. Adaptability and a willingness to take risks. Not quantitative skills. And this is why many companies looking for marketers/brand managers target people with Marketing degrees. Not accounting/finance degrees.</p>
<p>To put what I'm trying to say in a different way.</p>
<p>Alan Lafley, current CEO of P&G. Made his name by launching Liquid Tide and Tide with Bleach. Not by inventing some new financial model.</p>
<p>If you are looking for a Minor to supplement your Marketing Major and future marketing career. I would recommend Psychology or Anthropology. Most definitely not Mathematics.</p>
<p>qwertip, while I agree that calculus is not part of your day to day activities as an assistant brand manager at P&G (not my career, but I'm speaking as someone with actual knowledge here), calculus is not part of the day to day activities in too many professions. That said, there are plenty of people who believe strongly that learning and understanding calculus is a fabulous way to develop and/or enhance an analytical mind. An analytical mind is an important prerequisite for success in brand marketing.</p>
<p>To be good at what you do in brand marketing, you need to know a lot more than simple algebra. When working on a product launch, for example, you are in constant and close contact with the finance department, and yes, it absolutely helps to be conversant and knowledgable about accounting and other financial measures. You may be called upon to develop models and financial forecasts that require knowledge of accounting, as well as finance concepts like NPV, IRR and the discount rate. Budgeting for domestic and international brand management may absolutely be part of your role, so you had better understand the rise and fall of interest rates, changing exchange rates and yes, more touchy-feely concepts like cultural norms around the world. You also need to develop the ability to apply financial concepts to psychological and other sociological information, such as, for example, the effects that couponing or advertising in certain media have on a brand. Marketing professionals at P&G must understand all of these math-based concepts incredibly well in order to do their jobs effectively.</p>
<p>It seems to me that you certainly need leadership ability and good judgment, adaptability and a willingness to take risks, as you suggested, in addition to a thorough knowledge, understanding and ability to use and manipulate mathematical, accounting and financial concepts in order to be successful in what is an incredibly competitive job even once you are on the inside.</p>
<p>sallyawp: all of the type of math/analytical qualities you described in your previous post are fairly basic...nothing too complex (most high schoolers would be able to understand them if explained to them).</p>
<p>Okay let me speak from the perspective of my company, Procter & Gamble. I've interned for P&G for four summers, worked on the tide, crest, pringles, Iams projects with ABMs, and helped with the launch of several new initiatives. I've worked on commercials with Saatchi with the marketing director of Crest.</p>
<p>Sally is right. You cannot go in with a high school math level. There are specific skills that ABMs need, such as financial statement analysis, nielson data pulling, and ROI forecasting, just to scratch the surface. There is a reason P&G rarely pulls ABMs from the undergraduate level. About 95% of our ABMs come from B-school. P&G can't botch the launch of a brand extension so they have to ensure that those hired will exceed expectations.</p>
<p>"financial statement analysis, nielson data pulling, and ROI forecasting, just to scratch the surface..." </p>
<p>The above obviously require good math skills but none require too ADVANCED of math skills...for example, any of the above are not going to require upper level calculus or differential equations rather they'll require some higher level algebra. To do well as an ABM you'll obviously need to have the skills to perform these kinds of analysis (as in most business positions) but in general the math required is not too intense which is what most people here are trying to understand. Obviously any business position will require math, be in basic addition/subtraction or intense upper level calc, but I think that the people on this thread are just trying to gage the intensity of the math required in various areas and marketing IS NOT on the level of intensity as many other business positions.</p>
<p>I've worked in various industries (financial, tech, entertainment) on both the finance side and the marketing side and I never saw the higher level of math required for finance on the marketing side...not even close.</p>
<p>No one ever suggested that mastery of calculus or differential equations is required for marketing. Those types of skills are generally not needed in investment banking either. I thought that we all agreed upon this earlier. </p>
<p>The point is simply that the skills needed to be successful in brand management include math skills that go far beyond high school math or algebra.</p>
<p>"The point is simply that the skills needed to be successful in brand management include math skills that go far beyond high school math or algebra."</p>
<p>But see the point is that the math skills needed don't go far beyond h.s. math or algebra...a simple DCF valuation, an NPV calculation, CM calculations, a statistical regression, financial statement analysis, etc. don't require more than a mastery of basic math skills and higher level algebra (no more than h.s.). period.</p>
<p>bern700, fine, you can believe whatever you want. But during your junior and senior years of college, maybe you'll learn to listen to people out in the real world who have been there and who might know a thing or two that you haven't learned yet.</p>
<p>I do listen to people out in the real world...my uncle is one of the top marketing people at P&G and from what he's told me you don't need much more than what I stated above...</p>
<p>look marketing wouldn't be known as the easy, blow-off major at wharton for no reason.</p>
<p>For something to be considered an easy major has nothing to do with whether it makes for an easy/challenging career. You can put down the skills math and financial skills that are necessary to make someone a successful marketing professional, but there are good reasons why a company like P&G doesn't generally hire ABMs without an MBA.</p>
<p>What is considered "advanced math?"</p>
<p>If one is taking Stats AP and Calc BC as a highschooler, then taking calc again in college, is it enough to go into consulting or advertisement?</p>