<p>isnt a 3.8 in engineering nearly impossible? just wondering how many engineering majors are at that threshold. yea but you're right about what opportunities that must open up, esp. if its a reputable eng. program. o, and for econ programs, i've always liked Alexandre's ranking. grouping them is the correct way to go about it for sure.</p>
<p>post #14</p>
<p>Sheed,</p>
<p>You're off the mark. It doesn't matter what Chicago's econ is ranked, that gives it ZERO advantage when it comes to jobs. Its the overall school that matters and Chicago is a 2.5 at best when it comes to reruiting.</p>
<p>The only engineering schools that are very competitive when it comes to business jobs are MIT and Caltech. After that, once again, the school matters. A Yale or Dartmouth engineer (ranked in the 30-40s) will get ten times the opportunities of a GaTech engineer (ranked 4 for engineering).</p>
<p>Anyway I was an anthro major at an Ivy and I got into a top 5 MBA program within two years of graduation.</p>
<p>So a liberal arts major at HYSP is preferred to an economics major for business opportunities? That sounds awfully ironic..</p>
<p>I don't know Slipper. Bain, BCG, Booz Allen, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Lehman Brothers, McKinsey, Mercer, Monitor, Morgan Stanley, UBS and several other major companies recruit dozens of undergraduate engineers on the Michigan CoE campus. Those companies and many like them come to Michigan specifically to recruit at the college of Engineering. (page 13 of the report below).</p>
<p>I would be surprised if that weren't the case at Cal and Cornell as well.</p>
<p>To the poster above...</p>
<p>Economics IS more or less a liberal arts degree (its a social science). Yes, an economics degree from any of the Ivies + Stanford will trump any undergraduate degree with the exception of Wharton/MIT. And an economics degree combined with a high GPA at the top schools = Wharton/MIT business recruitment.</p>
<p>The general rule is this... if you want to go into business and DO NOT go to a very prestigious University major in business. If you do go to a very prestigious university, major in whatever you want.</p>
<p>Edit: There are "target" schools shared by Investment Banks that they recruit at. Goldman Sachs has a list somewhere. I'll try to find it. It's basically the top 15 schools.</p>
<p>Here are the Business Week undergrad rankings:</p>
<p>Top 20 Undergraduate Business Programs</p>
<p>1 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
2 University of Virginia (McIntire)
3 UC Berkeley (Haas)
4 Emory University (Goizueta)
5 University of Michigan (Ross)
6 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan)
7 Notre Dame (Mendoza)
8 Brigham Young University (Marriott)
9 New York University (Stern)
10 Cornell University
11 Georgetown University (McDonough)
12 Villanova University
13 University of Texas at Austin (McCombs)
14 Boston College (Carroll)
15 UNC at Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler)
16 Washington University (Olin)
17 Wake Forest University (Calloway)
18 Indiana University (Kelley)
19 USC (Marshall)
20 Lehigh University</p>
<p>and U S News MBA programs:</p>
<p>1 Harvard University
2 Stanford University
3 University of Pennsylvania
4 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
5 Northwestern University<br>
5 University of Chicago<br>
7 Dartmouth College
8 University of California-Berkeley<br>
9 Columbia University<br>
10 New York University
11 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor<br>
12 Duke University<br>
12 University of Virginia
14 Cornell University<br>
15 Yale University<br>
16 University of California-Los Angeles<br>
17 Carnegie Mellon University<br>
18 University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill<br>
18 University of Texas-Austin
20 Emory University</p>
<p>redcrimblue, can you post the entire US News undergrad business rankings (or at least the top 20)? Thanks.</p>
<p>Sure, U S News undergrad business rankings (asterisk denotes a public school):</p>
<ol>
<li> University of Pennsylvania (Wharton) 4.8 </li>
<li> Massachusetts Inst. of Technology (Sloan) 4.6 </li>
<li> University of California–Berkeley (Haas) * 4.5
University of Michigan–Ann Arbor * 4.5 </li>
<li> New York University (Stern) 4.3
U. of North Carolina–Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler) * 4.3
University of Texas–Austin (McCombs) * 4.3 </li>
<li> Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 4.2 </li>
<li> Univ. of Southern California (Marshall) 4.1
University of Virginia (McIntire) * 4.1 </li>
<li> Cornell University (NY) 4.0
Indiana University–Bloomington (Kelley) * 4.0 </li>
<li> Emory University (Goizueta) (GA) 3.9
U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign * 3.9
Univ. of Minnesota–Twin Cities (Carlson) * 3.9
Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison * 3.9
Washington University in St. Louis (Olin) 3.9 </li>
<li> Ohio State University–Columbus (Fisher) * 3.8
Pennsylvania State U.–University Park (Smeal) * 3.8
Purdue Univ.–West Lafayette (Krannert) (IN)* 3.8
University of Arizona (Eller) * 3.8
Univ. of Maryland–College Park (Smith) * 3.8 </li>
<li> Arizona State University (Carey) * 3.7
Babson College (MA) 3.7
Georgetown University (McDonough) (DC) 3.7
Michigan State University (Broad) * 3.7
University of Notre Dame (IN) 3.7
University of Washington * 3.7 </li>
<li> Boston College (Carroll) 3.6
Case Western Reserve Univ. (Weatherhead) (OH) 3.6
Texas A&M Univ.–College Station (Mays) * 3.6
University of Florida (Warrington) * 3.6
University of Georgia (Terry) * 3.6
Wake Forest University (Calloway) (NC) 3.6 </li>
<li> Georgia Institute of Technology * 3.5
University of Iowa (Tippie) * 3.5 </li>
<li> Boston University 3.4
Brigham Young Univ.–Provo (Marriott) (UT) 3.4
Southern Methodist University (Cox) (TX) 3.4
University of Colorado–Boulder * 3.4
Virginia Tech (Pamplin) * 3.4 </li>
<li> Bentley College (MA) 3.3
Florida State University * 3.3
George Washington University (DC) 3.3
Georgia State University (Robinson) * 3.3
Syracuse University (Whitman) (NY) 3.3
University of Arkansas (Walton) * 3.3
University of Pittsburgh * 3.3
Univ. of South Carolina–Columbia (Moore) * 3.3
University of Tennessee * 3.3 </li>
<li> Auburn University (AL)* 3.2
College of William and Mary (VA)* 3.2
CUNY–Baruch College (Zicklin) * 3.2
Miami University–Oxford (Farmer) (OH)* 3.2
Tulane University (Freeman) (LA) 3.2
University of Kansas * 3.2
Univ. of Missouri–Columbia * 3.2
University of Oklahoma (Price) * 3.2
University of Oregon (Lundquist) * 3.2 </li>
<li> Baylor University (Hankamer) (TX) 3.1
Louisiana State U.–Baton Rouge (Ourso) * 3.1
Northeastern University (MA) 3.1
Pepperdine University (Graziadio) (CA) 3.1
Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst. (Lally) (NY) 3.1
Rochester Inst. of Technology (NY) 3.1
University of Alabama (Culverhouse) * 3.1
University of Connecticut * 3.1
University of Kentucky (Gatton) * 3.1
Univ. of Massachusetts–Amherst (Isenberg) * 3.1
University of Miami (FL) 3.1
Univ. of Nebraska–Lincoln * 3.1
University of Utah (Eccles) * 3.1 </li>
<li> Clemson University (SC)* 3.0
Iowa State University * 3.0
North Carolina State U.–Raleigh * 3.0
Rutgers–New Brunswick (NJ)* 3.0
Santa Clara University (Leavey) (CA) 3.0
Temple University (Fox) (PA)* 3.0
Texas Christian University (Neeley) 3.0
University at Buffalo–SUNY * 3.0
University of Illinois–Chicago * 3.0
Villanova University (PA) 3.0 </li>
<li> American University (Kogod) (DC) 2.9
Colorado State University * 2.9
DePaul University (IL) 2.9
Fordham University (NY) 2.9
Loyola University Chicago 2.9
Oklahoma State University * 2.9
San Diego State University * 2.9
United States Air Force Acad. (CO)* 2.9
University of Alabama–Birmingham * 2.9
Univ. of California–Riverside * 2.9
University of Cincinnati * 2.9
University of Denver (Daniels) 2.9
University of Louisville (KY)* 2.9
University of Mississippi * 2.9
University of Richmond (Robins) (VA) 2.9
Washington State University * 2.9 </li>
<li> Drexel University (LeBow) (PA) 2.8
George Mason University (VA)* 2.8
James Madison University (VA)* 2.8
Kansas State University * 2.8
Lehigh University (PA) 2.8
Loyola Marymount University (CA) 2.8
Marquette University (WI) 2.8
Ohio University * 2.8
Seton Hall University (Stillman) (NJ) 2.8
St. Louis University 2.8
Texas Tech University (Rawls) * 2.8
University of Delaware * 2.8
University of Houston (Bauer) * 2.8
U. of North Carolina–Charlotte (Belk) * 2.8
University of San Diego 2.8
University of Texas–Dallas * 2.8
Univ. of Wisconsin–Milwaukee * 2.8 </li>
<li> California State U.–Los Angeles * 2.7
Cal Poly–San Luis Obispo * 2.7
Oregon State University * 2.7
Rutgers–Newark (NJ)* 2.7
Univ. of Colo.–Colorado Springs * 2.7
University of Memphis (Fogelman) * 2.7
Univ. of Missouri–Kansas City (Bloch) * 2.7
University of New Mexico (Anderson) * 2.7
University of Northern Colorado (Monfort) * 2.7
University of San Francisco (McLaren) 2.7
University of Texas–Arlington * 2.7
U. of Colo.–Denver and Health Sci. Center * 2.7
Washington and Lee University (VA) 2.7 </li>
<li> Ball State University (IN)* 2.6
Creighton University (NE) 2.6
Hofstra University (Zarb) (NY) 2.6
Kennesaw State University (Coles) (GA)* 2.6
Kent State University (OH)* 2.6
Loyola College in Maryland (Sellinger) 2.6
Mississippi State University * 2.6
Rutgers–Camden (NJ)* 2.6
San Jose State University (CA)* 2.6
Seattle University (Albers) 2.6
Southern Illinois U.–Carbondale * 2.6
St. John's University (NY) 2.6
SUNY–Albany * 2.6
SUNY–Binghamton * 2.6
University of Central Florida * 2.6
Univ. of Massachusetts–Dartmouth (Charlton) * 2.6
University of Rhode Island * 2.6
University of South Florida * 2.6
University of Tulsa (OK) 2.6
Virginia Commonwealth University * 2.6
West Virginia University * 2.6 </li>
<li> Arizona State University West * 2.5
Bowling Green State University (OH)* 2.5
Bradley University (Foster) (IL) 2.5
Calif. State Poly. Univ.–Pomona * 2.5
California State U.–Fullerton * 2.5
Florida International University * 2.5
Gonzaga University (WA) 2.5
Howard University (DC) 2.5
Indiana U.-Purdue U.–Fort Wayne * 2.5
Northern Illinois University * 2.5
Pace University (Lubin) (NY) 2.5
Stetson University (FL) 2.5
St. Joseph's University (Haub) (PA) 2.5
Trinity University (TX) 2.5
United States Coast Guard Acad. (CT)* 2.5
University of Alabama–Huntsville * 2.5
University of Dayton (OH) 2.5
University of Hawaii–Manoa * 2.5
University of Idaho * 2.5
University of Maine–Orono * 2.5
Univ. of Massachusetts–Boston * 2.5
University of Minnesota–Duluth * 2.5
Univ. of Missouri–St. Louis * 2.5
University of Montana * 2.5
University of Nebraska–Omaha * 2.5
University of Nevada–Las Vegas * 2.5
University of New Hampshire (Whittemore) * 2.5
U. of North Carolina–Greensboro (Bryan) * 2.5
University of North Texas * 2.5
University of Vermont * 2.5
University of Wyoming * 2.5
Utah State University * 2.5
Wichita State University (Barton) (KS)* 2.5
Xavier University (Williams) (OH) 2.5</li>
</ol>
<p>hm..some questions,sorry, I get more and more confused by reading all of u guys posts..:
1)For bussiness, go to IVY and other Top U, and major in engineering or eco, and keep a high GPA will help me in future?
Is that want u guys want to say?</p>
<p>2) If I go to some IVY or top U, but their neither economic nor Engineer is that good, but I have high GPA in those major, how is that?</p>
<p>3)and what about if I still choose major in eco and math/engineering, but I choose a Top LAC, but I will do my best to keep GPA, is that good too?
(I do decide ED a very top LAC, but after reading all of the posts, kind of changing my mind~)</p>
<p>Thx everyone!</p>
<p>Why do all the undergrad b-schools seem to give themselves a different name than their home institution?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Economics IS more or less a liberal arts degree (its a social science).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, economics is a social science, but, unlike other social sciences (i.e sociology, political science, etc.), it is very heavy in math. In fact, the first degree in economics in several colleges is actually a B.S, not a B.A. </p>
<p>Business on the other hand is a quite different undergraduate major, normally involving far less math and theory than economics.</p>
<p>Because most Business schools were heavily funded by an alum or institution and in a show of gratitude, the university would name the Business school after that alum or institution. For example, the University of Michigan business school, which was nameless, is now named the Stephen Ross School of Business. Stephen Ross donated $100 million to the Michigan Business school and as a result, the University named the Business school in his honor.</p>
<p>
[quote]
GPA luckily isn;t as critical for business, but you're going to need a 3.5+ for elite consulting and a 3.3+ for banking. A 3.6-3.7+ at a top 10 in econ pretty much assures a top job.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, I don't know about that. A top GPA might assure you some interviews, but I would hardly say that it assures you the job itself. I can immediately think of several people at MIT who had cracker-jack grades but had social skills/interview skills that were mediocre at best. Not surprisingly, while they got many interviews, they didn't get any job offers. {But on the other hand, they got into a bunch of top Phd programs and those were probably a better fit for them anyway.} </p>
<p>Secondly, I don't know that you really "need" a 3.5+ for elite consulting or a 3.3+ for elite banking. Again, I can think of a number of MIT graduates who had rather unimpressive GPA's, yet managed to land jobs at top banks and consulting firms.</p>
<p>1)For bussiness, go to IVY and other Top U, and major in engineering or eco, and keep a high GPA will help me in future?
Is that want u guys want to say?</p>
<p>YES</p>
<p>2) If I go to some IVY or top U, but their neither economic nor Engineer is that good, but I have high GPA in those major, how is that?</p>
<p>More math/ econ/ etc is better for banking, consulting lots of majors work</p>
<p>3)and what about if I still choose major in eco and math/engineering, but I choose a Top LAC, but I will do my best to keep GPA, is that good too?
(I do decide ED a very top LAC, but after reading all of the posts, kind of changing my mind~)</p>
<p>YES. Amherst/ Williams do extremely well, middlebury, Bowdoin, Colgate and others do very well.</p>
<p>Yes, that is how US News ranks MBA programs, but I personally think they should be ranked by income. The higher the income usually means the more desirable the applicant is, and that's what really matters considering your ultimate goal is to get the best job/most money possible. If anyone goes into business and claims they are not out to make money, then they are in business for the wrong reasons. If you go by income, it is basically the ivies, MIT, and Stanford breaking 110k. Considering this, it looks like prestige is everything.</p>
<p>Oh ya, slipper or truazn (you guys seem like you really know what you're talking about). In highschool high GPA is auxiliary. It's necessary, but it is so easy to get a 4.0 that acceptances really come down to your ECs. At a top ivy or MIT, should I be more concerned about keeping my GPA high or ECs. I get the impression that ECs mean less in college once the best of the best are competing for high GPAs.</p>
<p>ECs honestly don't really matter that much in college (I'm speaking in terms of Ivies+) when it comes to job placement. They help and make you interesting, but so does a study abroad program (which I highly recommend). My advice is to get a very strong GPA. You hardly need a 3.9, but a 3.5+ will open many doors.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, that is how US News ranks MBA programs, but I personally think they should be ranked by income. The higher the income usually means the more desirable the applicant is, and that's what really matters considering your ultimate goal is to get the best job/most money possible. If anyone goes into business and claims they are not out to make money, then they are in business for the wrong reasons.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, actually, I know plenty of people who pursue MBA's that aren't primarily trying to maximize their income. If that's all that every MBA student wanted, then everybody would be stampeding into investment banking and private equity. Instead, they are looking for a job that gives them proper work-life balance and a high quality of life. In fact, most (probably all) top MBA programs now run extensive workshops that discuss how to balance your career with the other aspects of your life (i.e. family) or how to obtain a job that may not pay you that well in the beginning but that can serve to aid you later in life.</p>
<p>As a case in point, Fortune Magazine recently reported that the #1 most desired employer of new MBA's is now Google. But Google is far from the highest paying employer out there. Google doesn't pay as much as consulting does, and certainly not as much as banking. MBA's who work at Google are effectively taking a pay cut. Nor are they likely to get rich off of Google stock options, as Google's IPO was completed 3 years ago, and frankly, Google's stock price is unlikely to exhibit explosive growth relative to its already rich valuation of today; hence nobody who joins Google today is likely to get rich. Yet top MBA students are still flocking to Google. Why? Because they see it as a foundation step to building their career. Via Google, they can later launch a startup or work at another tech company, or something else.</p>
<p>Similarly, a lot of MBA's from the top programs, and especially from the more entrepreneurial programs (i.e. Stanford, MIT Sloan, etc.) start their own companies right after graduation, or often times even before they graduate. However, startups rarely make much money in their first few years of existence and certainly don't pay high salaries to the founders during the lean years. In fact, I can think of a number of new MBA's who are effectively making a salary of $0 right now as startup founders. {But of course, if their startup makes it big, they'll be millionaires}. </p>
<p>Finally, certain business specialities are noteworthy for just not paying that well, but also offering a higher quality of life. Operations management, for example, has always been a laggard when it comes to pay, but also tends to offer a relatively less stressful work environment. Those schools that specialize in ops management (i.e. MIT Sloan) would exhibit lower average starting salaries due to the high percentage of graduates who choose ops jobs. I know one Sloan MBA who took an ops job at Intel who only works 3 days a week. Granted, she's working 14 hours a day during those 3 days (as she has to manage an entire 12-hour shift in the fab, plus a couple extra hours a day for transition and group meetings), but the point is, she gets to enjoy a 4-day weekend every week to do whatever she wants. If she wants to fly to Hawaii, where her family is, every weekend, she can do it. Obviously she isn't getting paid as well as those Sloan MBA's who went to consulting or especially banking, but she enjoys a far far higher quality of life. Heck, most investment bankers get "zero-day" weekends. </p>
<p>The point is, income, especially starting income, is a distorted metric with which to measure MBA programs. Plenty of people who pursue MBA's are doing so without intending to obtain the highest-paying job they can get, and certainly as a starting job. Quality of life is probably the most important goal of all.</p>
<p>Top LAC's can hold there own there ohyeah. Notice Williams is on that list of top recruited schools. Top LAC's(WAS, Claremont's, etc.) will also receive heavy recruitment, similar to top Uni's.</p>
<p>does emory (goizueta) fall into this conversation anywhere</p>
<p>what if i wanted a business background but ultimately wanted to go to law school, would going to goizueta at emory be a wise decision or no? or would it be just ok</p>