<p>
[quote]
Consultation cost start at $150 (a price of a dinner for four).
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This just reminds me what a different reality we all have. The way we live, the price of a dinner for four is less than $40, including tax and tip, and dining out is a rare occurence. (And of course we drink water, and dessert is at home... For more frugal tips, catch the Parent's Cafe thread on moneysaving tips ;) )</p>
<p>The article refers to the extreme high end of college counseling -- more like hiring Emeril to give you cooking lessons. </p>
<p>Quite a few people I know turned to private college counselors for much more modest prices --- $150 an hour for consultation or a "package" of about $3,000 for a high school junior to guide college selections, oversee the application process, and review (not rewrite) the essay. The private counselors I'm familiar with are mostly former local high school guidance counselors who know the ropes and could help guide parents through the process for S or D No.1 (Then, after the first, we're all practically experts, right?)</p>
<p>It is extremely helpful for several reasons.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>S or D at some point will shut down from info overload; a third party will help them see past hype and focus on their interests to delve into what each college has to offer. </p></li>
<li><p>S or D will stop listening to parents, period. A third party can make suggestions, whether about ECs or essay topics or specific colleges to consider and your child can discuss this with the counselor on a more equal one-to-one footing without the weight of the rest of the parent-child relationship getting in the way. </p></li>
<li><p>You may be applying to colleges in distant parts of the country and you're unfamiliar with the local conventional wisdom about getting into those schools. A friend hired an East Coast counselor to help navigate her daughter's application to her first-choice school -- U of Delaware -- from here in CA. She also recommended some East Coast safeties in surrounding states. Friend's D got into UD on ED and she considers it well worth the $3,000 fee. </p></li>
<li><p>Even good GCs in large high schools cannot provide personalized counseling service to large numbers of students. S1's class has 700 seniors (school pop of 3,000) divided among 6 counselors. It's a CA public school and the GC mostly focus on getting kids into UCs or Cal States and their familiarity with private schools -- except for in state and the top 20 nationally -- is quite limited. </p></li>
<li><p>Application details. Far from padding his application, my son tended to leave things OUT because they didn't seem like "major" accomplishments or he didn't think they would "count." The private counselor took the time to go over all his activities with him and help him see how including them gave the adcoms a more complete picture of him. He wasn't going to include his "outstanding soloist" awards from some local music competitions because they were not statewide, or national, awards, but she had him include them anyway. </p></li>
<li><p>The essay. A third party should read this before it gets sent off. Parents are not really the best at this task -- sometimes the topic is much too personal -- and teachers don't have time. The counselor we hired on an hourly basis did not rewrite or overly coach the essay; but she did help him focus his thoughts and get his point across using his own 17-year-old voice. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>I don't know how much S1's success in college applications --- he was admitted to 8 of the 10 colleges he applied to and the two he was not admitted to were super reaches (H and S) -- was due to the assitance of the private counselor and how much was simply his qualifications. But I will say that her participation eased the process for us and was worth the money.</p>
<p>btm, the $36,000 came straight from the article. And it does seem to have an auction-like smell to it if it takes thousands of dollars to get the advice needed to navigate "this extremely confusing, complicated and exhausting marathon of college admission." Because if that's true, that leaves out everyone without the means to pay for such pricey advice.</p>
<p>Actually, two of of my three kids got into top-tier universities. (They did it without any professional advice, and it wasn't back in the dark ages, they were part of the hs classes of 2000 and 2006.) I didn't say that I didn't think that was important, although the phrase "second chance" kind of makes it sound life or death, which it wasn't for either of them. They would have had many good opportunities at UC Davis or UCSB as well. Whether their experiences at their private universities were/will be better is debatable. We're certainly convinced, or else we wouldn't be paying for it. But the "no second chance" thing bugs me because it sounds too much like ending up at a good UC or its equivalent (of which there are many) is some sort of failure and that is far from the truth.</p>
<p>Anxiousmom:</p>
<p>I agree that affordability is a very sensitive topic in college admission, and even more so in post-admission. But my point is that paying for counselor services is no different from paying for private schools, tutors, test prep services or books, music, sports or other EC, summer camps, college visits, college application etc. - all very expensive, but used by many to some degree.</p>
<p>My other point is that the main reason for me being able to afford some of these services or $150 dinners is getting good education in several colleges, which brings me back to my original message.</p>
<p>Slightly off the topic, but my favorite dinner place in NYC is a small Malaysian place in China town - no reservations, cash only and a minimal order of $5. The dinner for four over there is $50 with tax, tip, beverages and deserts and the place is always full. I never met a person who did not like it and I am a total addict :-) You should stop by if you ever visit -the restaurant is called Nyonya</p>
<p>I'll have to check it out next time I'm there! :)</p>
<p>"Don't just assume that whartonalum. My parents wanted to send me to a private school, and such an option was easily within our means, but I wished to receive a public education. Thus, I have an incompetent guidance department."</p>
<p>HENCE, my use of the words "most likely" and "more likely." </p>
<p>I went to a great private school (with a great college counselor), but by no means would my family have been able to afford a private counselor.</p>
<p>D was upset when she had to have a person from the airport accompany her when she flew alone at 13 (instead of just "winging it" without the chaperone). "Mom, I cannot believe you RENTED me a parent!" I can't imagine what she would have said if I'd rented her a college counselor.</p>
<p>Don't the admissions officers (like from MIT for example) feel like fools when they read stuff like this? They must recognize the "beauty pagent girl" for example. I would think they would take an entirely different view of the applicant knowing every activity was planned and packaged for their benefit.</p>
<p>conyat- my parents hired the airport employees to chaperone me last summer when i was 15. i was furious, haha.</p>
<p>I have no problem with hiring a college counselor--some have found it very useful. But $36,000?!! And that is after-tax $$!! For that kind of $$, you better guarantee results--and, as we all know, you can't guarantee results when it comes to ultra-selective college admissions.</p>
<p>NJRes, what's worse is that now MIT applicants who just happened to have entered pageants for their own reasons might be looked on as packaging suspects. </p>
<p>It might seem odd in other parts of the country that the same girl would be interested in both MIT and beauty pageants, but in the South pageants are pretty ingrained into our culture. The queens of small town fairs and festivals (another important part of our culture) are often picked through pageant competitions. When D was small, there were people who just naturally expected that I would start her from a young age in pageants and modelling, and disapproved when I didn't. They even had me feeling remiss sometimes.</p>
<p>It's not too surprising that the two interests (MIT and pageants) would intersect even outside the South, because the same parents who can afford private schools and other educational advantages also have the means to provide the gowns, coaching, and other expenses of serious pageant competition. It is a little surprising that pageant competition would help with MIT. I would have expected that girls would be reluctant to put it down for fear of not being taken seriously as potential scientists. I guess this is the kind of misconception that a private counselor could help a family with.</p>
<p>I am of two minds about college counseling. Much as I dislike the icky excesses that we're hearing about, I have to admit that without the help of my sister and brother-in-law (who are both PhDs), D's options would probably be a lot more limited. Some of the things they did that helped included: taking her to see a few colleges when she was 13 to get her started thinking about the process; creating opportunities in her junior year for her to chat with friends of theirs who had been to various schools about their college experiences; giving her advice (when she asked) about what courses to take. Some of this I could have done, but for some reason, she took it better coming from them. I would often hear the same advice I had given her (and gotten creamed for it) coming back from her, prefaced with "Aunt Lynn says..." </p>
<p>While I agree that private counseling can be of great benefit to families who don't have a resource like my sister and her husband, I doubt that families without access to this kind of resource are the ones using the service. What bothers me most is the effect is on the middle class.<br>
Someone here referenced a study once that says that middle class kids have a hard time getting into top tier schools because they and their families don't know how to apply (for example, they don't understand the importance of showing interest). But the families who don't know how to apply probably also don't know how hiring a private counselor could help. Seems to me that the families who already have a lot of information about the process and how to navigate it are the ones most likely to be using this service. FA structures at some schools already tend to squeeze the middle class out; I hate to see another mechanism creating the same result.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>Someone here referenced a study once that says that middle class kids have a hard time getting into top tier schools because they and their families don't know how to apply (for example, they don't understand the importance of showing interest).<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>I agree that many middle class families don't know the lay of the college application landscape. </p>
<p>I have a friend (neither H nor she had graduated from college) whose D was enamored with Stanford but wasn't accepted even though she was a straight A student. My friend said that going through the process once was an eye-opener (Hello? Chances of acceptance are mightly slim and good grades aren't enough!) and that her younger daughter who also wants to go to Stanford will spend more time pursuing ECs and prepping for the SAT. Nothing like experience...</p>
<p>But there is so much help available nowadays that only requires a little initiative on their parts. </p>
<p>CC is one of them. Articles written in the paper or popular magazines (the dreaded USNWR rankings magazine really does a good job in the breadth of its articles accompanying the college rankings). The internet puts all sorts of info at your fingertips.</p>
<p>If you are in the position of not being able to afford to hire a plumber to fix the bathroom faucet, you have to figure out how to fix it yourself.</p>
<p>LOL ellemenope. We don't need no stinking plumbers!</p>
<p>In hindsight, PrintrMom and I both wish that we had spent $1-3K on a college counselor for DD1 (Valedictorian, NMSC Finalist, etc) to isolate the college selection/application process a bit from 'Mom and Dad.' We easily spent that much on college apps and visits that probably would have been unnecessary with better guidance, not to mention a substantial number of fights that might have been mitigated by third-party mediation. Primarily a matter of personalities, we didn't have anywhere near the same level of problems with her twin, DS1.</p>
<p>If the article had been about counselors who charge $360 or $3600 then there would be little discussion and of course no one would be that interested in reading the Business Week article. Most of the NY Times or other articles cited on this board are usually just a load without much real content or information.</p>
<p>This topic, like many others, comes up on a regular basis on CC. I have been here nearly four years and have commented on it several times. </p>
<p>First, for those who don't know, I am a college counselor at CC. </p>
<p>While I understand the reactions to scenarios described in such articles where parents are shelling out HUGE amounts of money and/or starting on the college counseling process in ninth grade (or earlier!), that is not the only scenario where an independent college counselor might be involved. Yes, those amounts of money are exhorbitant. And yes, some of those stories wreak of "molding". The conversation is focusing on using a college counselor to "get into a prestigious school." </p>
<p>None of that applies to my work. First, the fees are not nearly as high. Second, I have only worked with juniors and seniors. The work hasn't been about molding anyone. The goal is not that by using my services, the student might gain entrance to a prestigious school. Rather, I'm doing the individualized college selection and admissions process counseling that perhaps many of you do as parents. A qualified independent counselor can devote undivided attention, when a school guidance counselor may be assigned too many students, as well as many responsibilities other than college counseling. In some cases, a school GC MAY not be as well versed on particular types of colleges (ie., selective schools or specialized programs). They often can't devote that kind of one on one attention step by step through the process. An indep. counselor, particularly one who communicates online, is like a counselor on call 24/7 each step of the way. Many families find the college selection and application process overwhelming. While many parents have the time and/or put in the effort to become knowledgeable about the process (look at all the CC parents here doing just that! yay!), other parents either cannot or will not for various reasons. Some also feel a third party working with their child might go better. </p>
<p>A skilled college counselor can facilitate planning, exploring options, and careful preparation to meet the student's best interests. This isn't about molding the student or getting him/her into a school he/she could not otherwise accomplish on his/her own. It is about serving as a student's personal resource in identifying collges that best "fit" a student's specific preferences, personality and individual needs and help present the student's unique accomplishments, talents and abilities in the best possible way. </p>
<p>The idea that someone uses an independent college counselor so they can get their kid into a 'better" school is not what my work is about. I facilitate the process. The student still must be qualified. Many of the students I have worked with are not applicants to elite schools. In fact, their families have hired a counselor to help with the process and the students, in some cases, have low (or very low) stats. All kinds of students and families want assistance with navigating the admissions quagmire. It isn't just those striving for elite colleges and thinking that paying a counselor is the tip to getting in. It is more about the counselor aiding the process in the way that some of you parents do yourselves (those who have put in the time and effort to learn about the process). Granted, a skilled counselor has some expertise, but it is the guidance just like many other services, that is the core of it. It isn't about "if you get a counselor, it'll help you get into X elite school" and it shouldn't be about a counselor "creating" a student into something he/she is not. </p>
<p>It is about taking whomever the student is, evaluating their backgrounds, guiding the selection of appropriate and desired colleges, assessing chances of admission, helping students self assess their strengths to highlight on their applications, and assisting in every aspect of the application and admissions process. It is a support person, with expertise, who individualizes and facilitates the process but doesn't turn the student into someone...just takes who they are and helps them navigate the process and showcases themselves to colleges. </p>
<p>I don't think every student needs a college counselor. Some families find it extremely helpful to have a support person with expertise. Some just can't do it on their own. The typical CC parent is doing this on their own. Bravo! For those who aren't investigating this or for whatever reason, need assistance, they find that hiring a counselor is a godsend. Many feel very lost. I can't tell you the thanks students and parents give come spring of senior year....not because I "got them in" because I didn't get them in. THEY got themselves in. But they had individualized help with a process that is quite involved and for some, quite overwhelming, and that help was the support that they needed. There is a lot to know about the college admissions process and one can research it all themselves and help their child through it. Some choose to hire someone to assist with that. Some clearn their own houses, some hire help. Some fix their own cars, some hire help. Some do their own taxes, some hire help. Same with college admissions.....it is getting an expert to do what you might have been able to do yourself given the time and effort and research. The independent counselor can help the student to achieve his/her goal s finding the best colleges for him/her and to achieve a successful admissions outcome. It doesn't mean the counselor creates the applicant and molds him/her. The counselor takes the applicant as is and is a guide, not a molder. The counselor may help the student show himself in the best light, but still must work with whomever the student already is. Students of all abilities and with all ranges of schools use college counselors, not just students striving for elite college admissions.</p>
<p>I think we need another name for the type of "college counselors" highlighted in the article, those who charge many thousands of dollars for college admissions counseling that begins long before junior year. What they do sounds more like long-term strategic planning than counseling. </p>
<p>A friend of mine, a Ph.D. in educational psychology with two kids in college already at UCLA and Duke, hired a cc for her third child junior year to help create a list of schools that offered the type of performing arts program that her child was looking for and help her assemble the materials necessary in preparation for the audition/application process. They were very pleased with the results and somewhat surprised at how many more schools there were than they had realized. The whole tab was under $1000, and the student ended up with a nice selection of schools the following April. This was money well spent and made sense, since even with her own credentials and experience helping her first two kids through the admissions process, my friend was not well versed in either the options or the admissions process in this particular field. </p>
<p>This was a case of a student who followed her passion and then needed some help channeling that passion in the right direction, not a manufactured, professionally packaged application featuring a passion designed to "hook" a kid into an elite college. </p>
<p>I think once you go much beyond a few thousand dollars and begin the "counseling" in middle school, you're no longer a college counselor, you're a college application manager.</p>
<p>1Down2togo...</p>
<p>I agree with your two points. Sometimes, a college process is specialized and it helps to have someone familiar with that process guide you in the right direction. For instance, besides counseling students for regular college admissions, I also have a specialty in performing arts degree programs, particularly theater programs. Even for families who have gone through the regular college process, it is still very different, and frankly can be overwhelming embarking on the specialized BFA schools and all the program selection and admisions, as well as the preparation of specific additional requirements, including auditions. Likewise, students with special needs might need some expert assistance. Athletes might need specific guidance. Students with very low stats often need much guidance in the selection process. </p>
<p>Second, there is a difference between guiding and channeling a student in the right direction and getting them through the process successfully and those who help "mold" an applicant in order to get into a better college, often starting much earlier and for a greater load of mulah.</p>
<p>Just wanted to chime in again that this specialized approach can be very valuable.</p>
<p>Another friend hired on an hourly basis the same private counselor I used, -- mainly because her son has a learning disability. At their first meeting, the counselor brought with her a list of schools that are SAT optional and also a list of colleges that care so much about the success of their undergraduate students that they provide tutors to l.d. students, or any student who slips below passing grades. </p>
<p>You may or may not get this information on discussion forums on the internet and you won't find it in bookstores. Buying college counseling is kind of your right as an American, as I see it. You don't have to, but it's there if you want it.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>We don't need no stinking plumbers!<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>A new motto for CC??</p>