Business week: New 2010 rankings

<p>goblue,
I think you need to understand which companies made up the responses for recruiter rank. Furthermore, unlike in the academic world, things change in the real world as schools do go up and down in reputation based on their performance. What happened a decade ago with hiring from ABC College is not relevant. What happened in the last three years and what you’re encountering today are highly relevant. </p>

<p>CC does a great job of identifying those colleges (like Wharton) that do a good job of placing students into Wall Street jobs, but thankfully American business is about so much more than that. How many Whartonites do you find at a place like Cincinatti-based Proctor & Gamble?? Or at a place like Minneapolis-based Medtronic? Or a place like Atlanta-based Coca Cola or Dallas-based Frito-Lay? Or on and on and on…The world is a much bigger place than Wall Street.</p>

<p>^ hawkette, while the largest percentage of Wharton undergrads do end up in the financial services industry, a significant portion–MORE THAN 40%–DO NOT (see the lower pie chart and accompanying comments on page 1):</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2009Report.pdf[/url]”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/wharton/surveys/Wharton2009Report.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Given Wharton’s size, that’s a heck of a lot of Whartonites who are NOT in Wall Street jobs.</p>

<p>Also, in additon to Finance, Wharton is very highly ranked (top 5 or top 10) in such diverse business specialties as Accounting, Information Systems, Management, Nonprofit, Production/Operations, Real Estate, Entrepreneurship, International, Marketing, and Supply Chain/Logistics (click on any of these categories):</p>

<p>[Best</a> Business Schools - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-business-schools)</p>

<p>Your narrow characterization of Wharton fails to account for the breadth and depth of its eminence and prestige in both academia and the business world.</p>

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Given the volatility in the recruiter ranking, BW must query an entirely different employer cohort from year to year.</p>

<p>UVA: 52 to 4?
MIT: 43 to 3?
Cornell: 46 to 14?</p>

<p>The volatility makes one question the methodology. School quality doesn’t swing this wildly in this short of a time frame.</p>

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<p>So you judge undergraduate programs by their SAT scores only when it suits your purpose?</p>

<p>Whatever. Undergraduate business degrees are a dime a dozen. Except for possibly those of Wharton and MIT Sloan, good old-fashioned ivy (equivalent) liberal arts degrees (especially in econ, math, physics, etc.) are just as, if not more valuable for recruiting. Plus, the education is much broader and more well-rounded.</p>

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<p>Here’s the ultimate difference between Wharton/Penn grads and HYPSM grads. The former desperately defend their school against any real or imagined slights (even though Wharton is indisputably the best undergraduate business program); the latter don’t bother because they are secure about their alma maters’ place in the hierarchy of higher education.</p>

<p>Also, it’s highly ironic when Penn grads defend Wharton because most Wharton grads I know look down upon and try to dissociate themselves from (non-Wharton) Penn.</p>

<p>^ When you’re finished with your armchair Sigmund Freud routine, you might want to notice that I was specifically responding to hawkette’s claim that Wharton only excels at “placing students into Wall Street jobs.” A lot of prospective college applicants read this forum, and some of us want to ensure that they get an accurate picture of schools they may be considering.</p>

<p>And as a Wharton grad myself, I can assure you that most Wharton grads do NOT “look down upon and try to dissociate themselves from (non-Wharton) Penn.”</p>

<p>Do most titans of industry spend so much time hanging out in internet forums chatting about the school (Wharton) they attended over a generation ago? I wonder what Donald Trump’s CC username could be. What about that financial “whiz kid” turned ex-con “philanthropist,” Michael Milken?</p>

<p>^ Some of us can afford to. :)</p>

<p>Besides, it’s much more productive and fulfilling than being a mere ■■■■■. ;)</p>

<p>At least I don’t “■■■■■” for my school.</p>

<p>Most Wharton grads say they went to “Wharton” instead of “Penn.” Maybe you’re not most Wharton grads.</p>

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<p>It does when you want to sell more magazines to the ignorant and gullible masses, some of whom seem to populate CC. </p>

<p>Seriously, BW makes USNWR look like a scientific journal.</p>

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You seem to know as much about internet ■■■■■■ as you do about Penn and Wharton grads:</p>

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<p>[■■■■■</a> (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/■■■■■_(Internet]■■■■■"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/■■■■■_(Internet)&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Only one of us is a ■■■■■, and I’ll give you a hint: it ain’t me. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>No, you are ■■■■■ bait.</p>

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Who’s talking about a decade. I was comparing year to year (2010 vs. 2009). Are you telling me that corporate recruiters change their opinions drastically in a year’s time?</p>

<p>These rankings aren’t too far-fetched because they consider factors like teaching quality, facilities/services strength and student satisfaction in addition to job placement/recruiter survey rank.</p>

<p>Besides, Sloan is arguably on the same level as Wharton in terms of its finance reputation anyway, so I don’t see what’s wrong with Wharton being ranked #4 instead of #1 when you know there are other factors at play.</p>

<p>dimsum that’s not true at all, this is a very good methodology. stop getting your panties in a bunch just because wharton isn’t #1. seriously chill there are other good schools out there</p>

<p>45,
I think Wharton is the best at placing undergrads into Wall Street. Please note that I didn’t say that the students aren’t also attractive to other employers. These are smart kids and I respect them. But I also respect these other places and know of the great student quality attending and coming out of there as well and which is not heavily preordained to go to Wall Street. It’s a different orientation and emphasis at places like Notre Dame. And that is reflected in BW’s employer rankings which very likely take opinions from a much broader mix of businesses that don’t see Wharton automatically as the most attractive place to recruit. </p>

<p>ucb,
School quality as measured by immovable objects like PA scores may not change much, but student quality absolutely can fluctuate over short periods and sometimes a lot as it relates to certain industries. Student talent is very moveable and the concept of applicable talent affects this as well, ie, those I-bankers in training might have been quite attractive in 2006, but a whole lot less so in 2008-09. And a lot of folks who saw this as their future are now heading in different directions. </p>

<p>dimsum,
There are not material differences between the standardized test scores of Notre Dame vs those at Wharton. Note the BW link which shows that the average ACT score is 32 at both schools.</p>

<p>[Top</a> Undergraduate Business Programs 2010 - BusinessWeek](<a href=“http://bwnt.businessweek.com/bschools/undergraduate/10rankings/?chan=magazine+channel_special+report]Top”>http://bwnt.businessweek.com/bschools/undergraduate/10rankings/?chan=magazine+channel_special+report)</p>

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<p>FYI, I wear boxer briefs. And I am hardly a fan of undergraduate business degrees in general. But if we’re going to rank them by any relevant criteria, it’s clear that Wharton and MIT Sloan are the best.</p>

<p>I don’t believe BW uses relevant, let alone reliable criteria. The year-to-year volatility in data says as much.</p>

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Student quality and employer perception changed that much in one year as GoBlue pointed out? Are you saying the fluctuations are accurately reflected in the survey results? </p>

<p>BW must have a small employer sampling to get a huge variation. </p>

<p>GoBlue, it would be interesting to sort the schools by recruitment rank from 2009 and compare to 2010. See what schools gained or dropped.</p>

<p>Seattle and Hawaii are ranked No. 1 and No. 2 respectively…they were unranked in 2009…hmmmmmm</p>

<p>Changes in recruiter rank for top 25 schools ranked by recruiters in 2010:</p>

<p>School Name … 2010 … 2009 … diff
Seattle (Albers) … 1 … NR … NR
Hawaii (Shidler) … 2 … NR … NR
MIT (Sloan) … 3 … 43 … 40
Virginia (McIntire) … 4 … 52 … 48
Notre Dame … 5 … 12 … 7
Penn (Wharton) … 6 … 13 … 7
Akron … 7 … 87 … 80
Seton Hall (Stillman) … 8 … NR … NR
Emory (Goizueta) … 9 … 24 … 15
NYU (Stern) … 10 … 23 … 13
Cal Poly-SLO (Orfalea) … 11 … 63 … 52
Texas (McCombs) … 12 … 3 … -9
Purdue (Krannert) … 13 … 28 … 15
Cornell … 14 … 46 … 32
UC Berkeley (Haas) … 15 … 2 … -13
North Carolina State … 16 … 49 … 33
John Carroll (Boler) … 17 … 86 … 69
Miami U. (Farmer) … 18 … 4 … -14
Indiana (Kelley) … 19 … 14 … -5
Boston College (Carroll) … 20 … 15 … -5
Georgia Tech … 21 … 45 … 24
Kansas State … 22 … NR … NR
Penn State (Smeal) … 23 … 9 … -14
Bowling Green State … 24 … NR … NR
Denver (Daniels) … 25 … NR … NR</p>

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Not only that. I wonder how many of the 236 surveyed had nationwide responsibilities. It’s quite likely that School A and School B were covered by entirely different groups of recruiters in the survey (with different mix of industries), and in some cases (e.g., Hawaii) the sample size might be quite small.</p>