Buying a Mac

Student Lounge College Life
41

<p>i don't mean the following to be an attack-- afterall, some people just don't jive with apples, and that's totally okay-- but i just thought i'd share my opinion on the matter, as i'm your opposite-- while i've also been using macs and PCs alike, i tend to prefer my ibook to my PC (especially for schoolwork). does anyone else have a similar/different opinion (as i find these to be quite common arguments against macs)?</p>

<p>If you are looking for simple uses - office programs, printing, etc, windows has more software and hardware available, with a larger user base.
i have to disagree. all of the programs in the microsoft office bundle (word, powerpoint, excel... am i forgetting anything?) are availible for apples and are, in my opinion, much more visually pleasing-- but then again, i find mac OS X to be a masterpiece in the aesthetics department, especially in comparison to windows. anyway, not only do macs have all of the windows office progams, but they also come preinstalled with the ilife suite (imovie, iphoto, itunes) which are great for organizing photos, music, and obviously creating movies. i'm not sure how much you'd need to make imovies in a college class, but it's still a nice program to have for personal projects. </p>

<p>sure, windows has a larger user base, but most campuses (as far as i'm aware) are both windows and mac compatible as far as servers, labs, and class use goes. that barrier that once divided a PC from a mac has really been broken down over the past few years.</p>

<p>Yes, it is also better for gaming.
true. games for the macs are limited, but on the other end of the spectrum, as far as graphic programs are concerned (hello, photoshop!) apples are the industry standard.</p>

<p>I speak of duping, I refer to my experience with Mac users where most had bought it because of the outward appearance or an ad/salesperson.
i cringe at this. especially with macs, which definitely have a trendy-metro-techno-geek-chic marketing ploy flavor to each of their products (ipod-- need i say more?), one needs to be an EDUCATED consumer. take the time to research the difference between a 12" and 14" monitor or an ibook vs. a powerbook. decide if you'd like to save some money and install extra ram yourself or just suck it up and pay a few hundred more to have apple install it with your computer-- it's all dependant on your own needs, budget, and intentions.</p>

<p>*Macs are not necessarilly worse, but slower and more expensive, *
9 out of 10 people will want to upgrade the RAM of their ibook/powerbook, as the standard amount of RAM that the computer comes with is pretty darn puny. you can order this upgrade through apple for a couple hundred dollars, or you can use their instructions to upgrade yourself and order much MUCH cheaper RAM from another source (like crucial.com). if you don't, i agree, your mac will be much slower. expense, on the other hand, depends way too much on each individual purchase. it's possible, with an educational discount and promo coupon, to get an ibook for $800. that's not so bad, especially considering that something cheaper like a dell is far less reliable and more likely to break.</p>

<p>...with a smaller software base, and far more limited hardware. I would rarely consider Macs in general to be better than PCs.
i already touched on the software base-- generally, most programs these days are mac compatible, although again, gamers would probably be dissapointed. far more limited hardware? all i have to say is browse around apple.com or check out your local apple store for this one. i couldn't disagree more.</p>

<p>ultimately, anyone thinking about buying a mac should go and play around on one at somewhere like compUSA or bestbuy (or an apple store) to get a feel for the system. i've found the livejournal community for ibooks (<a href="http://www.livejournal.com/community/ibook%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.livejournal.com/community/ibook&lt;/a&gt;) to be very helpful in answering questions for prospective buyers.</p>

<p>(don't be mislead by the abundance of tech support questions should you visit that site-- macs are generally very reliable machines, but the community has morphed into a tech support resource of sorts and isn't necessarily representative of the chances that your mac would self destruct!)</p>

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<p>I've had a 14-inch ibook for about a year now. When I bought it, I upgraded to an 80g harddrive, 768megs of ram, and a dvd burner. I love my laptop, and I run MSword on it fluidly. I haven't run into anything I can't do on this computer that a windows can, as I can run windows media player and trade files with my windows-using friends. I'm a junior in HS right now and its been great all year. I take it to CSUS where I have after-school classes, to the library, to coffeeshops, and its v.portable. A smaller one would, of course, be more portable- there is always the 12 inch ibook if cost is an issue. Battery life is wonderful, I can use it away from home for hours without the battery running down, so long as I am not watching movies or something energy-intensive. I rarely have tech problems, and I've never gotten a virus (And before this ibook I had an original imac for 6 years). Go Macs!! You won't regret your decision. I <3 my ibook.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]

i have to disagree. all of the programs in the microsoft office bundle (word, powerpoint, excel... am i forgetting anything?) are availible for apples

[/QUOTE]

Yes, but they are also available for (and originally designed for) windows. It is simply a fact that there is more software, as a whole, designed for windows. Perhaps it shouldn't be that way but that is the reality of things.

[QUOTE]

and are, in my opinion, much more visually pleasing-- but then again, i find mac OS X to be a masterpiece in the aesthetics department, especially in comparison to windows. anyway, not only do macs have all of the windows office progams, but they also come preinstalled with the ilife suite (imovie, iphoto, itunes) which are great for organizing photos, music, and obviously creating movies. i'm not sure how much you'd need to make imovies in a college class, but it's still a nice program to have for personal projects.

[/QUOTE]

I could care less about aesthetics, I care only about functionality. However, windows themes can be had to suit nearly any taste. There is also all of that mentioned software available on a larger scale in some form for windows.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
sure, windows has a larger user base, but most campuses (as far as i'm aware) are both windows and mac compatible as far as servers, labs, and class use goes. that barrier that once divided a PC from a mac has really been broken down over the past few years.

[/QUOTE]

It has broken down but by no means has vanished. Campuses may be compatible but all that really translates into is internet access and file transfers/storage.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

Yes, it is also better for gaming.
true. games for the macs are limited, but on the other end of the spectrum, as far as graphic programs are concerned (hello, photoshop!) apples are the industry standard.

[/QUOTE]

You are right, and a Mac is a great option for someone like an artist. Most of us are not artists. The difference is minimal, and I regularly use Photoshop and the like on Windows and it is blazing.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

I speak of duping, I refer to my experience with Mac users where most had bought it because of the outward appearance or an ad/salesperson.
i cringe at this. especially with macs, which definitely have a trendy-metro-techno-geek-chic marketing ploy flavor to each of their products (ipod-- need i say more?), one needs to be an EDUCATED consumer. take the time to research the difference between a 12" and 14" monitor or an ibook vs. a powerbook. decide if you'd like to save some money and install extra ram yourself or just suck it up and pay a few hundred more to have apple install it with your computer-- it's all dependant on your own needs, budget, and intentions.

[/QUOTE]

That marketing ploy is a ploy, haha. With PCs you can build it yourself dirt cheap, where you choose all the components, no BS about buying inflated RAM and later upgrading. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

Macs are not necessarilly worse, but slower and more expensive,
9 out of 10 people will want to upgrade the RAM of their ibook/powerbook, as the standard amount of RAM that the computer comes with is pretty darn puny. you can order this upgrade through apple for a couple hundred dollars, or you can use their instructions to upgrade yourself and order much MUCH cheaper RAM from another source (like crucial.com). if you don't, i agree, your mac will be much slower. expense, on the other hand, depends way too much on each individual purchase. it's possible, with an educational discount and promo coupon, to get an ibook for $800. that's not so bad, especially considering that something cheaper like a dell is far less reliable and more likely to break.

[/QUOTE]

The macs are still slower, benchmarks generally indicate this. Its better to build your own pc than to buy from a manufacturer.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

...with a smaller software base, and far more limited hardware. I would rarely consider Macs in general to be better than PCs.
i already touched on the software base-- generally, most programs these days are mac compatible, although again, gamers would probably be dissapointed. far more limited hardware? all i have to say is browse around apple.com or check out your local apple store for this one. i couldn't disagree more.

[/QUOTE]

Yet you offer no viable counterargument. The software base is smaller. Maybe for some people that difference is not significant. Still, the software base is smaller. Hardware is also much more limited. These are facts. Now, you can live with the facts and still buy a Mac if you want. apple.com or your local apple store? Great, one website and one store. There are many thousands of PC hardware sites and stores. Again, you in your own words are supporting my assertions. If Macs are good enough for you, I guess you could use them, but in my mind, I see no real benfit except in certain niche areas.</p>

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<p><em>cough cough</em> ^^^ close-minded wintel dumbass who doesnt understand that people of differing technical skill may have different needs than his own</p>

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<p>i just brought my mac and i love it.This is my first mac and it's really easy to get used to. Way less technical than pc's.</p>

<p>btw i brought a 15" powerbook, super drive dvdrw/cdrw, 100gb</p>

<p>i would choose the powerbook over the ibook</p>

46

<p>your choice rocks.</p>

<p>if I had a bunch of money, I would buy that computer right away (I dont need another computer now though, I am bringing both a windows desktop and linux laptp). the 15inch powerbook is a literal dream machine. My dad has a Ti-book and they are simply the best (its not the aesthetics but the actual build and usability of the machine that gets me). True they are not great for games but if you want to play games, get a desktop because gaming on laptops generally sucks (which is why I love the powerbooks).</p>

47

<p>
[QUOTE]
<em>cough cough</em> ^^^ close-minded wintel dumbass who doesnt understand that people of differing technical skill may have different needs than his own

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for substituting an insult for an argument...and your post here:

[QUOTE]
your choice rocks.</p>

<p>if I had a bunch of money, I would buy that computer right away (I dont need another computer now though, I am bringing both a windows desktop and linux laptp). the 15inch powerbook is a literal dream machine. My dad has a Ti-book and they are simply the best (its not the aesthetics but the actual build and usability of the machine that gets me). True they are not great for games but if you want to play games, get a desktop because gaming on laptops generally sucks (which is why I love the powerbooks).

[/QUOTE]

is so fanboyish</p>

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<p>I simply choose not to restate arguments that could easily be found by searching these forums.</p>

<p>and your posts havnt been fanboyish? I clearly state that I use all manner of systems. Its hardly that I dont understand the advantages of any particular environment.</p>

<p>What I don't understand is why you choose to come into a topic about when to buy a mac (pertaining to people whom the mac is clearly a valid choice) and moan garbage about how they arent right for YOUR OWN computing habits. I could also say that "most of us are not gamers," maybe the people looking into this thread are looking because they are artistically inclined (you can photoshop away on windows but I bet its not on the professional level, windows color management is ****) or simply prefer the superiour hardware and user interface to the massive timewaster that is the modern compuer game (disclaimer: not my personal opinion).</p>

49

<p>Threads evolve.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]

Official college bookstores/techstores get additional discounts.</p>

<p>That said, don't buy a mac.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>If you don't like the digression, don't sustain it with attention, let alone insults. </p>

<p>I'm not fanboyish, I give Macs credit where I feel it is deserved. Maybe most of the people on this thread ARE artists, although I doubt it, but that doesn't affect my argument even slightly.</p>

50

<p>I'd look at the Apple site daily for refurbs. Since they announced the bumped iBooks, refurbs on the last iteration are cheap. I wouldn't buy a current one refurbed, however, because the education price is usually about the same--it's the last version that you get really good prices on. The refurbs are live; they load them up often very early in the morning and then they disappear through the day. Be patient for a couple of days and you'll find a 14" cheap. You might also consider Amazon.com; they are currently running rebate deals and don't charge tax. With the rebate, their price is about what Apple charges. The benefit of Amazon is the no tax thing. Have fun with your iBook-they're great!.</p>

51

<p>Sorry, I haven't read everything here, but I'd like to weigh in a little bit.</p>

<p>I run a successful computer repair and consulting business. I'm also a programming, web designer, graphic artist, and gamer.</p>

<p>I am going to college next year for computer science, and I bought an iBook (12 in).</p>

<p>People always ask me what they should buy. I always recommend Mac. Why?</p>

<p>The big reason involves spyware/viruses - 9/10 PCs have spyware on them. Your computer is probably full of malicious software. The majority of my business deals with removing this crap. I think the ratio of viruses for PCs to viruses for Macs is something like 50000:10. I haven't ever come across spyware for Macs either. Granted, Windows has made some strides (Service Pack 2, Firefox, Microsoft AntiSpyware), but most systems are still very contaminated. If you aren't computer literate, and you get a PC, you will probably end up infected with spyware and having to pay someone like me $100/hr to fix it.</p>

<p>Also, Mac OS X is very well built. My 1.2 GHz Mac is infinitely faster than the 2 GHz PC's I've worked on. Even more so when you take into account the programs that Dell, HP, Gateway, and other brand names load into your startup menus. Mac OS X is also *nix, which is great for someone like me. I've had my laptop for around six months now, and I've used it on average 3 hours a day. It hasn't crashed on me once (not once). XP usually crashes in one form or another several times per week (at least).</p>

<p>I understand that there aren't as many Mac games as PC games, but when I bought my 1.2 GHz, 256 RAM iBook, I also bought World of Warcraft (a new game that is really taxing on resources). It ran spectacularly. I did end up upgrading to 768 Megs, but that's primarily due to ego.</p>

<p>I also think that, for laptops, the hardware quality is better in most cases, but I can't really substantially defend that (just from my experience, although IBM, Toshiba, and Sony make great laptops).</p>

<p>So please, buy a Mac.</p>

<p>(also, I went with an iBook over a Powerbook simply because of cost. I'm a big computer geek and the iBook is very sufficient for me)</p>

52

<p>emmittisgod- I just bought a mac today--14 inch ibook, 80GB, super drive, 768 whateversss, and I bought office for mac. I use a pc now, so is there anything really urgent that I should know before I start using it? Did I buy a good computer? Sorry to sound so clueless, but no one in my family uses a mac and I am certainly not a "computer geek."</p>

53

<p>People actually pay $100 an hour for spyware removal?</p>

<p>I am not that savvy with computers but just by running Adaware and Spybot, I seem to have no problems at all with my Windows machine. Spybot even has this cool feature that allows you to disable many of the startup programs that can lag a PC.</p>

54

<p>you bought a good computer and the differances are something that you will learn as you go. You will want to do something that you could do on windows, you will stop and think for a second, and then say "ahh they list that under 'blahblah'". Anything you cant figure out that way, there is always google.</p>

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<p>impactangel: lots of people pay good money for spyware removal. Its one of the big things you will be quizzed on if you apply for any sort of computer service job. There are a lot of people who simply arent tech savvy enough to do it themselves or its not worth their time (we are talking LOADS of infestation here, remember, they take NO care of the system until they decide to bring it in.)</p>

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<p>so in those cases where the system is just flooded with spyware, i'm guessing standard spyware programs don't work anymore?</p>

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<p>no, standard spyware programs do not work for major infestations. I usually do a manual clean and then run spybot/adaware (well now I just run Microsoft AntiSpyware). After the repair, I tell people to run Adaware/Spybot or AntiSpyware (former for >XP latter for XP/2000) biweekly. I am hoping Microsoft AntiSpyware will work, but it's too early to tell. Ultimately, I just think Windows is inherently flawed in its security. Hopefully Longhorn will fix this.</p>

<p>People do pay $100/hr for spyware removal (well computer repair -- it's all the same for them).</p>

<p>Geniuskriki, you bought a great computer -- better than mine :)</p>

58

<p>Yeah i figured i should stick up for Macs and help them out a bit. 1) If anyone wants to go head to head with my dual 2.0 G5 with 4.5 gigs of ram please i dont think your faster in like, anything. Not a gaming comp my ***... 2) The software base is smaller because there isnt all the crap thats in the PC software base. Most good programs are either ported or dual-developed. 3) If by hardware you (videogamerx2) mean RAM, video cards, displays, hard drives, mice, keyboards, external drives, gaming controllers, networking routers or the like then the hardware base is just as large as it is for the PC market. 4) Never crashed save once and how ironic is this i was running Word... Now i use Pages. 5) As far as asthetics vs. fuctionality Macs have both. They look nice and arent some ugly box on your desk but at the same time do things the way you would want them to. Tasks seem much more intuitive on a Mac and ive met plenty of anti-Mac people who still concede that fact.
6) No viruses. 7) Contrary to popular belief a multi button mouse works just as well on a mac as on a PC, its just that it comes with one, but how many people actually keep the mouse a computer comes with? 8) I would invite you to go look at <a href="http://www.systemshootouts.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.systemshootouts.org&lt;/a> and just browse around. Just realize that the reason a PC is "cheaper" is because the base model starts with nothing on it. Upgrade it up to par with an equivalent (i say that laughing as Macs are so much better) Mac, and you end up with the same price, sometimes the PC is actually more. </p>

<p>To those of you wondering on whether or not to get a iBook or Powerbook when you shove off to college i would say go to an Apple store and go and pick up the thing get a feel for it, run a few programs on it and see how it feels. For those who are switching yeah ill admit the OS is way weird at first especially if you dont have a right click, but for me the switch was well worth it to not have to deal with a POS PC that crashed on a continual basis. It may be strange at first, but you wont be sorry.</p>

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<p>i second emmitt on the spyware comment-- a few computers ago (when i wasn't exactly computer savvy) i didn't know what spyware was-- it's not like i was visiting shady porn websites or anything, but my computer accumulated so much spyware smut that the dammage was irrepairable: the CD-ROM drive would open and close spontaneously on its own, the computer would shut down on its own accord, and i forgot that the machine had any RAM in there because everything went SO slow. needless to say, i ended up having to buy a new computer, but luckily now i'm in the hands of SpyBot and AdAware. if you're purchasing a PC (or running one now), as emmitt said, you NEED to take spyware seriously-- it's worth it in the end.</p>

<p>with that, just seconding his opinion, i've only heard rumors of one psuedo-virus on a mac. i'm sure one or two real viruses exist, but seriously-- with the macs, that's just one less thing you need to worry about.</p>

<p>i'm not sure about the rest of you incoming freshmen and what your schools have told you about using their networks, but despite all of the firewalls and anti-virus security precautions most universities take, a campus-wide network is one of the easiest ways to pick up viruses and other nasty junk haphazardly. either be cognizant of the danger with your PC, or sail a bit easier with a mac.</p>

<p>lastly, just thought i'd add that when i went up to campus today, some reps announced that they'd have the MS office suite (mac version) on sale for around $40 to students in the fall (as compared to the usual $100+). look out for student discounts in months and weeks to come.</p>

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<p>There are many PCs that would massacre that comp...4.5 gigs of ram doesn't make much difference as games rarely if ever will fill that, and an overclocked pentium 4 3.8 ghz would blow that away in games. The best graphics card by ATI is not even made for Macs. There are far fewer Macintosh mobos. When it comes to new technology, the PC is likely to get it first. There is only one manufacturer. PCs are FAR cheaper when you build them yourself, forget about Dell. Word has never crashed in the four years I've used it on this PC with XP. Macs are equally open to viruses, there are just fewer made. Unless you are careless, viruses and spyware are pretty much nonissues anyways. The PC software base may have a lot of crap but its still enormous compared to the Macintosh and the cream of the crop is greater in quality and quantity. BTW, that includes many games. Can a Mac run software and games? Yes. Can it do it very well? Yes. Is it more expensive and ultimately slower? Yes. </p>

<p>Build me a Mac on the Apple website and I'll go on Newegg and build a comparable PC for much less money. PCs ever since XP almost never crash for me, but I know how to maintain them.</p>

<p>Portrait - you probably could have just reinstalled the OS and wiped the HD</p>