Eyemgh
I wanted to ask your advice because you seem to be knowledgeable. My daughters are debating between cal poly and Chapman University for software engineers. They liked Chapman because of the small size but are worried it would not be academically challenging enough. Also concerned it is not well known for job hunting. Do you know anything about Chapman’s program? The cost is the same since they are OOS. Thanks
@iulinc
I finished WPI after a three year stint in the Army. At the time of my return, WPI was actually switching from the old familiar semester system which most every STEM college was using to the new seven week terms… By happenstance I had the opportunity to experience both systems. They did not just take the old courses and stop them halfway through the semester for a break and then continue with the last half of old semester course as previously designed. The courses had to be completely redesigned. Many faculty felt the redesign process challenging and a considerable burden as they had to rethink the entire process. Other faculty felt the process was refreshing and enlightening.
@eyemgh
This was a long and ardently argued debate among the faculty (and ABET) as the WPI Plan developed. Here are some elements which may add to a better understanding of the grading process:
- In order to meet accredited ABET degree requirements, grades must be "C " or better. A "D" in your thermodynamics course is not considered an ABET "pass." This was one of the reasons behind WPI's dropping the "D" grade. Under these stricter standards there is no low pass. Both the "F" and the "D" were relegated to the "no record" grade.
- When a student does not earn a "C" or better grade they have paid two penalties: loss of time and loss of money.
- On the positive side, they were looking for a way to encourage students to take a GPA "risk" on the toughest courses. Under the old system they would even switch a major to avoid a course which, rumor had it, was particularly demanding (in my case any Organic Chemistry). They wanted to encourage educational exploration. They knew many students were ducking tougher courses when possible rather than risking their GPA and those demanding corporate recruiters. As the faculty's job was teaching, their vote fell on the pedagogical side. They saw an advantage to the students' educational menu with the new grading system.
- If one assumes that the four year GPA of a student enables the Corporate recruiter to select the better candidate, this system makes selection more difficult. Their hope was that recruiters would be in a better position to pick the winning candidate based on there proven research experience by way of comport, presentation and completed courses.
The complaints I have heard most often regarding the seven week system centered on the speed of the seven week courses as each course covered three semester hours per course in only seven weeks. They do, however, carry fewer courses at a time. Students who took a short subject break were in trouble as they did not really have the “catch up” time available in the semester system. Keeping on top of your work on a daily basis was not a bad habit to develop. I never heard anyone say it was “easier.”
Sorry, I’m unfamiliar with Chapman. CP has a great job pipeline for SEs though. My son’s roommate works for Apple and had an offer at another big company.
Question for @retiredfarmer: Do companies these days ask for GPA? I know I’m dating myself since I graduated from Poly over 20 years ago, but not one company ever asked for my GPA or even asked for my transcript.
@sawadeeka
Evidently, some employers still do use GPA’s. I believe “eyemgh” has experience in the hiring of engineers…
“The only complaint I hear from people on CC about WPI is that the easy grade forgiveness policy (basically you cannot get a grade lower than a C) leads to so many high GPAs that hiring engineers can’t sort the superstars out. In ME at CP for example, 10% of the given grades are F. A high GPA there is truly useful as a differentiator.”
As the WPI grading system evolved in the seventies, it was a concern with some corporate recruiters. All changes raise concerns with commonly accepted traditional practice. People like to compare numbers as a justification for a decision. The subjective nature of the decision can then be dodged under the cover of a objective choice.
WPI believes the quality of the work produced over a series of research projects combined with communications and people skills are a better measure of a graduates contributions. All the classes indicate is that a student has demonstrated mastery of known processes in a specific course. They wanted creativity to develop and show up by way of projects.
When people believe that the higher GPA will clearly define the better hire, the measuring stick is lost and the more “deserving” student will not be selected in a violation of the commonly accepted rules. It was “unfair” that the NR student was not punished for taking a gamble for which he/she received no credit. The student who never gambled on the course has now been, somehow, cheated.
WPI’s hiring record speaks for itself after decades on the new system. Watch the project students perform!
For WPI grading process from WPI see https://www.wpi.edu/offices/registrar/policies-procedures/grade-system
I’m not an engineer. My son is. Many of the companies he’s looked at have stated GPA cutoffs, some pretty high. @HPuck35 has said that’s often just an entry point, with hires being required to have GPAs even higher than the GPA that keeps the resume out of the trash bin.
back in my days (40+ years ago), there was no internship/coop or a very rare instant for an engineering student to work during the summer or to take off a semester or two to work. We just want to graduate on time or early to secure that job. I do remember all engineering companies back there did list their minimum in-major GPA to secure an on-campus interview. Maybe there is no GPA required now because most will have some sort of internship or coop work before hitting that senior year.
@parentofsix I had heard that with the increased prominence of project and internship activity, it has become less important, but evidently has not disappeared.
I wonder if MIT and Cal Tech grads are held to the same GPA requirement?
Most big companies use automation, at least early in the process, to screen applicants. Missing the GPA mark will cull the applicant irrespective of institution.
Your question also presumes that MIT and Caltech grads are prized above all others and that is not the case. Each hiring company develops its own perspective. Some prefer big names, some eschew them, and some are agnostic.
A specific example, when my son was considering Stanford for his MS, an engineer on the forum told me that one of the companies he worked for preferred Stanford grads while another he worked for preferred Cal Poly grads.
At the end of the day, it depends completely on the job post. The more competitive the position, the more selective the company can be. Typically the cut is 3.0 if they use one, but I’ve seen 3.2, 3.5, 3.7 and even 3.9.
The silly thing is, schools have widely differing grading standards.
How liberal is Cal Poly SLO in grading the students? If Employers use GPA to screen applicants how will average students thrive?
@ppxyz123, it varies by major. Within the CENG BME is the most liberal with roughly 90% of letter grades awarded being A or B. ME is the toughest with 60% A or B.
Major: Civil Engineering
Status: Accepted!!!
Weighted GPA: 4.4
SAT: 1500
ACT: 34
Out of State (Texas)
I’ve got lots of family in SLO, love the area, visit every summer.
Most likely will not accept admission and attend BYU-Provo instead, but still keeping the option open in case anything changes. I was also accepted into the University of Texas Engineering, and Texas A&M Engineering Honors. Still waiting to hear from UC schools, but again, out of state tuition for these schools is too expensive for an undergrad. I would love to attend Cal Poly SLO for a graduate degree!
MechE
OOS
GPA = 4.0/4.0
SAT = 1510 one sitting
lots of APs and all APs senior year
Accepted.
I am a corporate recruiter for a mid-sized engineering firm based in Denver (500 emp). I would say only the mega companies use automation - there is so much more to a successful engineer than a college gpa - having said that, we use the 3.0 threshold - and look at the rest of the resume - my biggest recommendation is to get an internship or 2 during your undergrad years!! Our firm - and most I know big and small - have internship programs, though we don’t consider candidates until after sophomore year. Also - get involved! Join the engineering organizations in the community- and involve yourself outside of the engineering curriculum as well!
My son - OOS 4.3 gpa, 1540 SAT (790 math), 34 ACT (35 math and science), 4 year letterman and captain, lots of additional ec’s - orchestra 1st chair bass, Student Leadership, volunteer hours, works etc - applied aerospace - If I figured MCA correctly (which I probably botched) i- over 500. STILL WAITING!! Cal Poly and Duke top 2 choices - still waiting on both. CU Boulder Aerospace accepted and quite a bit of money - so great option too - time will tell!
@emilysmith if you would post to the Final Status thread, you’d be helping future applicants. Thanks!
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/cal-poly-san-luis-obispo/2128373-2019-final-status-p1.html
Any aerospace admits? Still waiting.
Major: Aerospace
Status: Accepted
Weighted GPA: 4.4, UW: 4.0
ACT: 31
MCA: 4714
Bonus Points: ECs, Leadership, Sports, Community Service, Work (unrelated)
12 Semesters Math, 10 Semesters Language Arts, 10 AP Classes
Accepted today. Mechanical Engineering. In State MCA 4753 GPA 4.35 SAT 1410. 21+ extra curricular with leadership, job major related. Sooo excited!!!
Anyone hear back for Electrical Engineering?