<p>yea, but even for Health sci. All the supp. app. consists of are 3 short answer questions. No place for ECs (you could mention a few), but if you brag a little, the readers don’t like it and will most likely reject you. </p>
<p>The US is wayy more holistic is their process, which is kind of annoying, but fair. The Ivies are a little over and beyond, but average and above average schools are fine. I’m applying to UT Austin next yr. and I need to write 3 essays and send my transcripts and recommendations and fill out the other application stuff(just like other schools). Lot of work, but very fair because I can clearly tell them who I am and get that message to the admission committee.</p>
<p>The general trend is for Health Sci is that once you’re past 90, marks really don’t matter and the supp plays a great role. People with 95+ get rejected while others with lower marks get accepted.</p>
<p>Just have to make those 3 x 1500 character answers count.</p>
<p>yep. But the entire process is subjective. Like, you don’t even have a chance to tell them about you. How much can 3 short answers q’s tell them? And its only 500 words per question, so not a lot. </p>
<p>US apps. look at ECs, volunteer, work, GPA, SAT, SAT subject tests, recommendations, essays, sometimes interviews and so on. You truly give your best impression. There is nothing arbitrary…except for the Ivies, its kinda random there because of all the amazing applicants. But in general, you always have the opportunity to put you best foot forward.</p>
<p>It’s kinda sad to see the Mac Health Sci program…with all our Canadian version of US premeds dying to get in. What started out as a program to give students who don’t get into med school more opportunities in health care has turned into a dogfight to get “into the one program that gets you into med school”. </p>
<p>People don’t get that the cut-off may be 90, but you need AT LEAST a 93-94 to have a solid chance. I know after 90% the supp app doesn’t matter, but people have told me the hidden cutoff is 93</p>
<p>Essays for US schools are usually limited to 500 words too. 1500 characters is plenty to succinctly describe yourself.</p>
<p>A 93-94 is usually a solid chance, but anything above 90 gives you a fighting chance. People with 95+ get rejected all the time. (My research mentor is someone that used to be high up in Mac before he left.) You get marked on your supp by 3 people and that mark decides if you get in. Only if you tie with someone, then they might consider your top 6 marks. If you have a perfect supplement or close to, you’ll beat someone with a 98 avg and who has a worse supplement.</p>
<p>A little fun fact: admission rate to that program is a little lower than that of the ivies. ~3000-4000 apply a year, ~2000 have marks over 90, about 200 get an offer, 160 matriculate.</p>
<p>The questions themselves are kinda wierd. Like “What is a question that should never be asked?” is a question to answer. You can’t really tell them the kind of candidate you are with a question like that. The questions don’t see the type of applicant you are in terms of “all rounder”, ECs, work, etc. Instead, the questions make you THINK. This is the whole point of the program, the Thinking and inquiry and the PBL (problem based learning). So, I guess the questions are good in that sense to see who would fit in the program. Since, its such a unique program they want to make sure the applicants are meant for the program and that they can succeed in it. The program itself is not meant for everyone.</p>
<p>Yea, ppl with 95s will get rejected all the time just based on the magnitude of applicants. But, to get rejected with a 97 or 98 is really tough, unless your supp. app. sucks. I’ve heard of a person with a 99 who got rejected because he thought there was no way that he would get rejected, but he did. So the supp. app. is HUGE, but if you have a >97 average, the only way you would get rejected is if you tank the supp. app.</p>
<p>hey guys, I’m glad I found this thread. And I know ppl say GPA doesnt really matter and whatnot but I think it does because a lot of times, adcoms just browse through your app without going into details and a seemingly-low GPA might make the difference between a closer look and the reject pile. I doubt adcoms recalculate every single person’s GPA, it would only be those who have a competitive edge to get in.</p>
<p>I have a 3.66 GPA which is outrageous cause that is equivalent to an 84% average. Which I’ve never had anything under 90 % average through HS and can count on one hand the number of marks i’ve had in the mid-high 80s. : (.</p>
<p>Also, my friend who was accepted ED to boston applied by paper. So he took his transcript from school, sent it to a “processing service” (i’m not sure what it is) and they converted all of his % grades to letter grades for $200. So 80+ –> A. In the end, he had a cumulative GPA of A/4.0 even though throughout high school, he had low to mid 80’s. few 70’s but how is US university going to know? I just think this is really unfair.</p>
<p>…Processing service? The transcripts are sent directly from your guidance office to the admissions committee…</p>
<p>It depends on who is converting your marks. Different schools uses different scales. My school uses 90 = A = 4.0. It says so on the school report/profile. IMHO, ranking means a lot more than GPA.</p>
<p>Rank is very important. And that is dumb how that kid converted his marks in a way that the 70s and 80s resulted in a 4.0 in the end.</p>
<p>SAT, Rank, GPA, SAT II, essays, ECs. That would be the general order I’d put them in order of importance. The SAT levels the playing field so I think it would be of utmost importance. However, after a certain point I doubt they’d care. Next, Rank should be looked at to get a sense of how competitive you were compared to your school. (cause a 91 average at a hard school may be the best, or if you go to a dumb school like mine you’d need a 97-98 average to have the highest average). Next, the actual GPA and so on. </p>
<p>I rank essays before ECs because I’ve heard many stories of the essays getting rather mediocre people in. </p>
<p>As for me, I’ll just tell my guidance to send in the percent marks and get the adcoms to figure it out. I’d assume after a certain mark (like a 90) they’d consider it a 4.0 anyways. So, if your average is high 80s you’d have around a 3.8-3.9 I’d guess. Who knows for sure though…</p>
<p>essays, ECs, teacher recs, Rank, GPA, SAT II, SAT</p>
<p>there are SO many 2300+, with 800s on SAT IIs, perfect GPAs and top rank that get rejected… after a certain point with ur marks, its the subjective part of your app that make you who you are… and before people say “holy crap how can essays be worth more than ecs”… its because your ecs are nothing until you breathe life into them THROUGH your essays… and also, if your teacher says “best student i’ve ever taught in 30 years”, im pretty sure thats worth more than a lot of those things…well thats just what i think, who knows lol… keep in mind im saying that this list is for things AFTER you have passed a benchmark for SATs(2100/2200+)/SAT II(700/750 + on each)/GPA(90%? i would think)/Rank(top 5%)</p>
<p>^that’s true, I was referring to not-so-top universities, when there aren’t a tonne of high scorers and such. </p>
<p>Like, a school like Texas A&M or VCU or UTexas-Austin and schools like that. I can’t think of any right now, but you get what I mean, mid-level schools. For the top ones, I agree with pakalypse, except for the SAT and such. </p>
<p>The way I listed them were sort of in the order of what they’d look at. Like if your SAT is over a certain point ofr top schools, then they go to next section, and then the next. Sort of like a filter.</p>
<p>EDIT: for top schools its kinda like med school applications. After the hard data (gpa/mcat) then its onto the subjective stuff (LORs, ECs, personal statement, interview, etc.)</p>
<p>because the guy applied by paper, he actually sent everything in hard copy so when he sent into the processing center, they sent him one back with the grades and then they sent another “official” copy in a sealed envelope for him to include with his paper app. ugh. sorry, it’s just ridiculous what money can buy you these days.</p>
<p>It may very well depend upon province and/or highschool. About 30% of the students at my child’s private Canadian HS get into top US schools. The highschool does not rank, and offers very few APs. </p>
<p>I actually think the Canadian system makes much much more sense as we parents went through teh US system and are thankful to be in canada now as our kids approach college. First is the cost- our kids can have a great education for a tiny fraction of the cost of a US school. Since we now teach at a Canadian public and have taught at 4 US schools between us (including an Ivy and a state), I’m telling you the vast majority of ‘name’ schools you see in the movies are not any different than one of the better Canadian colleges. Sure Harvard and company are set apart, but most of the top 20 are no different than Canadian unis. </p>
<p>Second is the insanity of US admissions. Its not about leadership. Its about a massive educational industry with deep pockets for advertising and number playing, that feeds on branding and fear. Ultimately it means many students and parents needlessly stress for many years, playing the admissions game at the expense of having a balanced teenage life! Children should not be padding their resume, retaking SATs, cramming in a 7th AP, or signing up for “ECs” and camp that ‘looks good on a college resume’. For what? For some marketed hype about a brand college (that will cost $200k for a degree and make very little difference to one’s life). Nice bumper sticker for mom and dad though. But it is NOT some golden ticket. Teenagers shoudl be able to have a social life, relax, get a job at McDs, take fun classes and activities and not spend all their hours grinding or packaging themselves. It is a sad state of affairs that Canadian students can avoid. </p>
<p>Oh and in case you wonder, I send LOTS of my undergrads to top US schools for grad school. Zero problem whatsoever.</p>
<p>yea, that is so true. That is what I love about Canada’s application process. I think that it is perfectly fine, except we NEED a standardized test. This will level the playing field because there are many differences in curriculum, marking, grade inflation (Ontario is known for it), and such. If we have a standardized test, our process would be perfect.</p>
<p>I just don’t like that fact that the kid who studies 24/7 and gets a 97% average may get in over the kid with a 92% average, but plays on the baseball, hockey teams and is on a lot of clubs. I’m speaking of the scenarios regarding difficult programs to enter that may not require a supp. app. (like UofT Eng. Sci…I don’t think they need a supp. app.).</p>
<p>Cosign on what starbright said. I’m sad for some of the students I’ve met at Harvard who talk about 12+ hours a day spent at high school, plus another 4 doing homework. And I don’t think they have much to show for it. They tend to be more advanced than top Ontario students in math and science, but much of what they’ve learned is useless because, apart from the superstars (and there aren’t that many), they don’t know how to apply any of it. Even those who’ve had research assistantships or internships during high school were often content to do busywork in exchange for a nice title on their resume. </p>
<p>That being said, I prefer the Canadian system of admissions. It doesn’t incentivize students to imitate the life of some mystical “ideal candidate.” It doesn’t practice social engineering. It lets students “get it how they live” without limiting their academic opportunities. </p>
<p>Also, I don’t see the need for a high-stakes test which disadvantages the poor and certain minorities and which causes the government to orient education policy around trivial numbers. Our education system is utilitarian enough as it is. Moreover, we should be able to be confident that the inputs to education, like teacher quality, resources, and syllabi, are uniform enough to make grades alone mean something. If that’s not the case, then we need to correct the fundamental inequities within the system, not amplify them with standardized tests.</p>
<p>One thing I like about the Canadian system is that it’s relatively easy to enter a respectable (or even great) university, as long as the motivation is there. You don’t need highfalutin extracurricular positions arrived at with the help of family connections. In that sense, the Canadian system is fairer to students who, through no fault of their own, have low levels of social capital. It also gives students who’ve performed only average in high school – again, sometimes due to circumstances beyond their control – a chance to prove themselves in an internationally respected institution. This all hinges on the availability of government bursaries and loans, of course, which has been an issue in recent decades.</p>
<p>And for those complaining about no recognition for extracurricular activities or awards in the OUAC application, be careful what you wish for. You might not be able to achieve the results you want under your preferred system.</p>
<p>^ I agree with that. I was just saying a standardized test may be nice to use to differentiate those students who did bad in school for whatever reason/tough curriculum (so they got lower averages). these students can make up for it on the standardized tests, and those who just took easy courses to boost their top 6 may be hurt by a standardized test, which is a little fairer.</p>
<p>But in the end, ECs and such shouldn’t matter (unless for a really competitive program) as students develop in their own way.</p>
<p>I also like the fact that gr.11 and 12 marks matter the most (if not the only things that matter). BUT, I think gr.11 marks should mean more in the process than just for early acceptance. Other than that I love the system and students have the opportunity to develop. My brother is in gr.7 and i cannot imagine him in 2 years stressing about getting all these ECs, leadership positions, and in some cases (like some US students do) getting research and internships. lol</p>
<p>right now all he wants to do is play hockey and watch sports lol. He is the perfect example of why the Canadian system is great. He plays travel hockey, travel baseball, school volleyball, school floor hockey, and gets As in everything. No way he could do all that when he gets to high school (if he were to be in the US) with balancing ECs, and all those other things.</p>
<p>Standardized testing has its downfalls as Mustafah pointed out. It tends to favor certain socioeconomic groups. Furthermore, Canada’s schools are supposed to be standardized with the curriculum (by province). Thus, creating standardized testing would just be a band-aid solution if our education was in fact not more or less standardized.</p>
<p>And why does “plays travel hockey, travel baseball, school volleyball, school floor hockey” not count as ECs? Leadership and research are not the only venues for ECs that will lead to a US school.</p>
<p>yea, i know. but I was using my brother as an example, as my family is probably moving to the US in after next school year. So, my brother would probably end up falling into the trap of US school applications (like so many US students) and end up being on so many clubs and such by pressure of doing so to be competitive for top schools when he goes to high school in 2 yrs… </p>
<p>I’m just comparing Canada’s relaxed process of no stress, no worries to the US’s complete stress and so many things to complete/worry about. And yea, those do count as ECs (hockey etc.), but what has happened is that you almost “have” to be on NHS, President of something, leader of something, winner of something, to get into a top US school. </p>
<p>This is almost comparable to McMaster’s Health Sci. program, which many consider the “be all and end all” of undergrad to med school programs in Canada. People try to do so much and beef up their profile for such programs.</p>
<p>My school’s in Quebec and when you want to convert your percentage GPA, you add about 7-8% of your total average. Here, it is hard to obtain average of 85% and over. </p>
<p>However, I know for a fact that Ontario’s grading system is much more lenient than that of Quebec. It isn’t too hard to get 85% average. </p>