Calif Asians are losing UC spots to Chinese and OOS students

Parents Forum
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<p>Lure of Chinese Tuition Squeezes Out Asian-Americans</p>

<p>"Kwanhyun Park, the 18-year-old son of Korean immigrants, spent four years at Beverly Hills High School earning the straight As and high test scores he thought would get him into the University of California, San Diego. They weren’t enough.</p>

<p>The sought-after school, half a mile from the Pacific Ocean, admitted 1,460 fewer California residents this year to accept higher-paying students from out-of-state, many from China.</p>

<p>“I was shocked,” said Park, who also was rejected from four other UC schools, including the top-ranked campuses in Berkeley and Los Angeles, even with a 4.0 grade-point average and an SAT score above the UC San Diego average. “I took it terribly. I felt like I was doing well and I failed.”</p>

<p>The University of California system, rocked by budget cuts, is enrolling record numbers of out-of-state and international students, who pay almost twice that of in-state residents. Among those being squeezed out: high-achieving Asian-Americans, many of them children of immigrants, who for decades flocked to the state’s elite public colleges to move up the economic ladder.</p>

<p>In 2009, University of California administrators told the San Diego campus to reduce its number of in-state freshmen by 500 to about 3,400 and fill the spots with out-of-state and international students, said Mae Brown, the school’s admissions director. California residents pay $13,234 in annual tuition while nonresidents pay $22,878.
12-Fold Surge</p>

<p>As a result, almost 200 freshmen from China enrolled in 2011, up from 16 in 2009, a 12-fold increase. At the same time, the number of Asian-American Californians enrolled fell 29 percent to 1,230, from 1,723 in 2009."</p>

<p>Lure</a> of Chinese Tuition Squeezes Out Asian-Americans - Bloomberg</p>

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<p>Its happening every where in CA. DW works for a CSU, she said at lunch time its like walking on a street in China, Chinese students are dominant in her school. Her school(just one of the CSU) also opened an office in China to recruit.</p>

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<p>The article is wrong on non-resident tuition. Non-residents are not paying 22,878, they are paying an extra 22,878.</p>

<p>[Budgets</a> for Undergraduates 2011-2012](<a href=“http://students.ucsd.edu/finances/financial-aid/budgeting/undergrad-20112012.html]Budgets”>http://students.ucsd.edu/finances/financial-aid/budgeting/undergrad-20112012.html)</p>

<p>The cost of USCD is 29,343 for residents but 52,221 for residents. Essentially, Stanford, Caltech and UCSD are close to being equal if you are a non-resident.</p>

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<p>It is really difficult for me to finally realized that there are so many Chinese families who regard $60,000 a year COA is a bargain. </p>

<p>We met a Mom with her two daughters, one is attending a private high school in NJ and the other is coming to USC, both full paid.</p>

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<p>They are not paying $50,000 or $60,000 a year for just high school or college education. They put down payment for a permanent settlement with secure jobs in the US. It’s a lot better than paying to human traffickers and working as slaves in LA shops.</p>

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<p>Families who can afford this kind of expenses from Asia are usually very well off and are usually spending the money to show they have an American degree while they return to run family owned businesses. Hong Kong, Taiwan which are affluent usually get lumped in with China but China itself is beating out Japan for number 2 economy in the world. So if there are 1.3 billion people, at least several million are rich enough to afford an American education.</p>

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<p>It seems that Asian Americans continue to be treated unfairly in the college admissions process.</p>

<p>Since they are “over-represented”, when a school wants to do affirmative action, or accept more international students or OOS students, it is they who pay the price. And some of these kids, especially the children of recent asian immigrants, come from poorer families and grew up under harder circumstances than their URM counterparts.</p>

<p>Since when in America did it become official policy to judge people according to what racial group they belong to? I thought we were all against that.</p>

<p>I have been told that at some admissions offices, asian applications literally go in one pile, whites in a second pile, and URMS in a third pile, and you are effectively competing against the other students placed in your pile. Is this the America we really want?. </p>

<p>I am in favor of affirmative action for truly disadvantaged URMs, because after all, they start the race well behind the starting line that a white may start from, but should we really be giving admission preferences to URMs from upper middle class families, just because a college deems that we need more of “their kind” on campus? And even if that answer is yes when it comes to African Americans, is there really a justification to expanding that helping hand to “hispanics”, who may be virtually indistinguishable from their white counterparts in almost every way? I know many hispanics in the Miami area who are in no way “victims” of anything which require redress.</p>

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<p>A cynic could say that this is poetic justice at its best. </p>

<p>The problem with gamesmanship is that there is always someone who can play the “game” even better, especially with players from regions where rules are permitted to be bent with abandon. </p>

<p>As far as the being shocked, with HS grade inflation and weights, a 1,340 M/R SAT cannot overcome the triviality of a HS GPA of 4.0 in California.</p>

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<p>

You’re talking about COA cost for on-campus housing/dining. The cost of a person who already lives in the area who can commute is far less than the $29K/yr estimate. Actual IS tuition cost is $13,234 whereas OOS is 13,234 plus $22,878 for a total of $36,112 and it could probably be assumed that the OOS will definitely need to pay for housing dining and wouldn’t have the commuting from home option available to some of the locals.</p>

<p>The thread title is somewhat misleading even though it’s true - ALL (ethnicities of) Californians are losing spots to this, not just Asians.</p>

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At least the UCs don’t practice racial discrimination as is done in some other states, since they’re prohibited by law from doing so. </p>

<p>I think it’s a shame to have so many spots taken by foreigners. I think it’s especially bad in grad school where a very large number of spots are taken by foreigners, especially in engineering.</p>

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<p>Aren’t your two opening sentences entirely contradictory? How did policies that CONTINUE to treat a sub-group unfairly end up making this group OVER-REPRESENTED?</p>

<p>Could it be that policies of racial diversity that helped Asians in the past with such success have simply stopped working as the pendulum is swinging back?</p>

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<p>"I think it’s a shame to have so many spots taken by foreigners. I think it’s especially bad in grad school where a very large number of spots are taken by foreigners, especially in engineering. "</p>

<p>Very few people in US want to go to grad school and add more debt or live on meager stipends when they can go out and make money. The foreigners are not taking those spots - universities are begging them to take them so some crucial research needs can be met. Where else are the universities going to find people who are fully educated but working for a lawnmowing guy’s salary?</p>

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<p>I don’t know where you all live, but there has been a record amount of chinese coming to my kids private high schools, and more coming every semester. It doesn’t just start at the college level, they are edging out local students at the area private prep schools. Most of the elite private schools in the area now have curriculum geared towards the chinese at the high school level. </p>

<p>It used to be foreign exchange came for a semester or a school year, now they come, get their visa’s and stay all 4 years. They pay way more than the local community.</p>

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<p>I disagree - people from other countries are definitely taking spots in some grad schools - especially CS/engineering. It can be very difficult for Americans to compete for those spots against the people who have filtered from the billions of people in Asia/India through their systems to the grad school level. At a minimum it bumps up the level to meet admission qualifications. It’s not as if there are no Americans who would try to enter those spots. Take a look at the makeup of something like the grad school for CS at UCSD and similar schools and you’ll find a significant number of people who are foreign nationals. maybe it’s somewhat regional but it’s clearly this way in California and I think, increasingly, elsewhere as well. I’m referring to engineering grad school - not grad school for a history major.</p>

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<p>CS is not research oriented at the master’s level. At Ph.D. level it is very competitive since they are fighting for the best brains out there. Unfortunately (fortunately for those foreign nationals?) only brains determine who gets in and the holistic approach is irrelevant?</p>

<p>It is also paying gig (peanuts but enough for someone coming from China or India) and so the universities do need to find the brightest that works for them.</p>

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<p>^^ I don’t hire PHDs but I do look at the MS and BS levels and I definitely see this at the MS level. It’s actually a big problem I think.</p>

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<p>So if there are 1.3 billion people, at least several million are rich enough to afford an American education.</p>

<p>When you consider the billions of int’l Asians and Indians, there surely are enough rich folks to pay nearly any price for the schools they want to send their kids to.</p>

<p>I do think it’s odd that at the same time Calif passed the Dream Act to give undocumented students instate rates AND access to Cal-grants and other (non-fed) aid, that the UCs are being asked to accept less Californians…how about accepting fewer illegals?</p>

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<p>Is this only to UCSD or all UC schools?</p>

<p>Berkeley recently announced Middle Class Access Plan which caps the total annual cost of middle income family ($80,000 to $140,000) at 15 percent. This was to keep best students in CA which otherwise go out of state for seeking better options. Below is the school’s remark:</p>

<p>“Campus is trying to do the very best we can to make sure that every qualified, talented Californian will be able to attend UC Berkeley”</p>

<p>Somewhat contradictory if Cal is doing the same thing…</p>

<p><a href=“http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/12/14/berkeley-mcap-conference/[/url]”>http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/12/14/berkeley-mcap-conference/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>All the UC’s are doing the same thing.</p>

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<p>I think one way to overcome the missing MS for American students is if they are encouraged to complete BS/MS together. When they reapply, they are competing again, need to devote a lot of time applying in their final year, all the while a competent CS undergrad is looking at major lucre in the face and going why should I turn down 60-70k to spend another 18-24 months in school?</p>

<p>Are people actually complaining to you that they can’t get into master’s because Universities are giving these seats to foreigners? I came here as a graduate student 25 years ago and things may have changed since then. In my time, most CS students in MS had to pay their way while us engineers had research assistantships even for masters. But CS grads had the easiest time getting a job back then.</p>

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<p>re: 11, texaspg</p>

<p>2006, DS applied to 4 CS master, thesis programs. Stipulated FA was a must, not because he couldn’t afford it, but because the opportunity cost for a master’s program vs going to work on a BS, CMU dual major, engineering, was just too great. </p>

<p>He was declined at 3 domestic universities, 1 of which he couldn’t get an interview (their mixup, and the prof made a personal call about the mixup and offered acceptance for the following year) He accepted Toronto’s full scholarship and stipend, as did his MS’ Berkeley roommate.</p>