<p>They should really make Berkley private. Name it “The Berkeley School”.</p>
<p>*25,000 students is a lot of UG’s, It’s like their hosting a rock concert crowd everyday south of Sunset Blvd.
*</p>
<p>I think the bigger problem is lack of space. 25,000 isn’t bad if your campus is 1000+ acres…but when it’s only half that or less…then it can feel like you’ve described. UCLA has 27,000 undergrads on only 419 acres. That’s tight! </p>
<p>If you only visit in the summer, weekend, or maybe even a Friday, you won’t get a real feel for the crowd!</p>
<p>My kids go/went to a univ with 25,000 kids (which they like/liked!), but their school has 1000 acres…and recently purchased 300 more acres.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>And then the real dirty secret at UC’s in the TA is teaching the class to the 500 kids in the packed auditorium. The same government and attitude that runs the Department of Motor Vehicles runs UCLA and Cal…get ready to stand in line*</p>
<p>Wow…is that true? They have TAs lecturing large classes? Like Bio? and such? Oh my. It’s one thing to use TAs to do the smaller labs, but to lecture those classes… ugh. I have one family member who won’t be happy to learn this. :(</p>
<p>Another data point - none of my UCLA kid’s classes weren’t taught by TAs and neither were my UCSD kid’s. Again, it could be because of the major so I’m not saying TAs don’t teach clases in other majors.</p>
<p>
Please don’t take pacheight’s posts about the UCs to be grounded in reality. Anyone considering the UCs (or any school) should make sure they get actual facts before making any decisions. There are plenty of people on CC with actual real recent experience at these colleges who can state the way it really is, whether positive or negative, and the colleges’ websites have a number of facts and figures as well.</p>
<p>pacheight is picking and choosing and making up numbers to make his/her case against the UCs and apparently any ‘government school’ as well as pretty much any school other than the few he/she is championing (such as the posts agains large colleges, small colleges, the Claremont colleges, government colleges, colleges without top football teams, etc.).</p>
<p>Berkeley is in the process of being privatized. The big step to come, which is being discussed, is changing the rules/laws at the state level to allow preferential treatment to alumni kids. Michigan ands Virginia have already done this and their alumni donations are starting to go up. There’s no way around the money issue, it takes a lot of money to have a 1st tier school.</p>
<p>And UCLA_Dad is wrong and I understand why, his kid is there. Totally understandable. But at all UC’s and especially Cal and UCLA TA’s are lecturing many cases, in econ, engineering, life sciences, CS, it’s rampant. And it’s very well known. Public schools profs can do what they want, it difficult to reprimand or fire them. There’s no oversight like a private school has.</p>
<p>And ya right, kids are turned off by Harlem, New Haven and therefore go to neighborhoods like Westwood for school. It’s not happening, Colombia and Yale wins over UCLA with students because of the quality of education. And as soon as UCLA hits 40k+ a year which is very soon, more kids in LA will choose USC. But for now Dad’s say oh it’s great go there with 27,000 other kids and I’ll save 20k a year…buy a new car or something!</p>
<p>
I’m absolutely not wrong in what I posted pacheight but you clearly are. Did you take CS recently at UCLA? Did your kid? Whay are you saying many of the classes in CS are ‘rampantly’ being taught by TAs when they aren’t? Where are you getting this inaccurate info?</p>
<p>The only reason I’ve made the last few retorts to your inaccurate, misleading, and biased posts is because some readers of threads like this might actually take what you say to be accurate and make decisions based on it. You’re doing a disservice to any of those people. If you left your posts with a more balanced and accurate view you might be able to help the readers.</p>
<p>My statement on the ‘area’ was referring to central LA vs Westwood and it’s true that some students use that as a data point in selecting between the 2 schools whether people think they should be or not.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t state anything differently on this thread had my kid chosen to take USC up on their offer rathe than UCLA and in fact, you’ll see I’ve clearly stated that I think USC is a good choice for a college.</p>
<p>But it’s clear you’ll continue your offensive on the subject and I’ve stated enough here to hopefully guide readers to obtain accurate objective info and make their own college decisions based on their own criteria.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>I do think that Cal, UCLA and maybe UCSD should charge a premium rate (like $15k-25k per year). That would help with a few issues.</p>
<p>1) bring in more money.</p>
<p>2) encourage people who are looking for a better bargain to apply to the other UCs.</p>
<p>3) the other UCs will get better because more kids will have to go there because of affordability. Right now, the top 3 siphon off the best students.</p>
<p>UCLA Dad…is your child still at UCLA?</p>
<p>^^If you think undergrad classes at Stanford aren’t taught by TA’s, guess again. And they are TA’s for whom English isn’t their first language.</p>
<p>I think it is a requirement of graduate Math degrees, and maybe others, that you work as a TA.</p>
<p>Also, financial aid at USC is rare. Check their endowment (it’s online somewhere).</p>
<p>For out of state, Berkeley is usually the back-up school for those who don’t get into Stanford.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Absolutely not true at the UCs. Based on the experiences of dozens of offspring of friends and acquaintences who are currently attending as undergrads, and handfuls of friends and colleagues who teach at those campuses in a variety of departments. TAs of course lecture to discussion sections. </p>
<p>There are many issues with the UCs, but if an OOS student is interested and his/her family has the money to pay for it, there’s nothing wrong with taking a look. For some students with the money, interested in certain majors and wanting the energy of a campus like Cal or UCLA, it’s a valid choice. For the vast majority of OOS students, the UCs are not a good idea: far too expensive, with no aid. </p>
<p>I honestly don’t understand why some posters seem hellbent on making up wild rumors about a school they don’t like. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>mom2collegekids, you frequently recommend that students requiring financial aid attend the campus near their home, so that UC financial aid doesn’t have to be spent on dorms and board. Charging a premium at UC’s campuses in three large metropolitan areas makes those campuses unaffordable for those very students.</p>
<p>here’s what’s going down in every department, happening now, this article is from the daily Bruin, June 2011, most people really don’t understand how bad it is:</p>
<p>“I have had grandparents call me and tell me their grandchild is going to college now and that they are telling them to go to UCLA so they can study from my classes,” said Grobel. “I said, ‘Don’t send them here if that’s the reason, because I don’t think I will be here next year.’” “He is awaiting final decision from the English department, with hopes that his layoff notice will be rescinded.”</p>
<p>Citing budgetary restrictions, Behdad said about eight lecturer positions have been cut by his department"</p>
<p>[The</a> Daily Bruin :: Humanities lecturers await departmental decisions after receiving layoff notices last June](<a href=“http://www.dailybruin.com/index.php/article/2011/06/humanities_lecturers_await_departmental_decisions_after_receiving_layoff_notices_last_june#comment4862]The”>http://www.dailybruin.com/index.php/article/2011/06/humanities_lecturers_await_departmental_decisions_after_receiving_layoff_notices_last_june#comment4862)</p>
<p>here’s an even scary article from the Daily Bruin, if these schools were private they’d be in bankruptcy and closing. This is really serious.</p>
<p>DB: How do you frame the UCLA" budget crisis for students?</p>
<p>JC: $500 million “loss”, it’s as if I took away all state support from UCLA at once. That’s half of your core operating budget, so imagine … half of all your departments chopped in half.</p>
<p>Gov. Jerry Brown is serious, he’s going to cut $500 million, and if the June tax initiatives don’t go well, things could be worse. The magnitude of this is so serious, and I don’t think I fully realized it, I don’t know if students realized it yet.</p>
<p>[The</a> Daily Bruin :: Q&A with Jesse Cheng: The student regent opens up about the budget crisis and how it will affect the UC](<a href=“http://www.dailybruin.com/index.php/article/2011/01/qa_with_jesse_cheng_the_student_regent_opens_up_about_the_budget_crisis_and_how_it_will_affect_the_u]The”>http://www.dailybruin.com/index.php/article/2011/01/qa_with_jesse_cheng_the_student_regent_opens_up_about_the_budget_crisis_and_how_it_will_affect_the_u)</p>
<p>I just had a few questions on USC, as we will be taking our kids on a similar California college tour next year. I have heard a lot of great things about USC and how it has improved so much over the last 20 years (when I was in college, it had a bit of a mixed reputation). However, we are still a bit on the fence on whether our kids will apply or not. (My son will probably major in economics and my daughter in either drama and/or English). My concern is that USC has 17,000 undergraduates where all the other potential schools (California as well as East Coast) have u/g enrollments between 1,500 and 9,000 students. I guess my question is whether USC can give a comparable educaton to a LAC or a typical East Coast private university with between 6,000 and 9,000 undergrads. My specific concerns about USC are whether you would encounter some of the negative aspects of a larger state university, such as 1) large class sizes; 2) endless queues for registration and the inability to register for the classes that you want for your major and minor; 3) getting your housing choices; and 4) whether the USC campus is very clique-y, with fraternities and sororities dominating the social life. I would be grateful for your views. Thanks, Jackuk</p>
<p>^ also 6) Are most undergraduate courses taught by professors or graduate students? Is access to the faculty good? </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>JackUK, I would like to suggest that you visit the forums for those schools. The original post here was regarding more travel advice for CA schools. I posted way back when that before visiting the UCs I would think about finances. My reasoning was that visiting a school you can’t afford is like test driving a car you can’t afford. In your mind you keep going back to that great car and comparing the others but the bottom line is you can’t afford it.
Since then this thread has become more of a debate about the merits of the UCs, USC, etc. That was not the original posters intent.</p>
<p>Urg. Just reread my last post and hate my analogy because now it looks like I am pro the UCs and calling them “that great car”. That was not my intent either…all I was trying to say is don’t look at schools you can’t afford.</p>
<p>I’m always amazed when people put down other colleges (ones they don’t attend or their kids do not attend). Speaking for myself, as well as my two kids, I know they don’t think their schools are the “best” or “better than X college.” They simply felt that the schools they chose fit them the best. They have nothing negative to say about any other schools. I feel as they do. I can’t imagine putting down a college. It is all about which school meets what you personally are looking for (and can be admitted to, of course). </p>
<p>Pacheight, you appear to be putting down certain schools like Berkeley and UCLA. It’s fine that your kids didn’t choose these schools and liked Stanford and USC better (assuming that’s where they attend?). What matters is that they found schools THEY like. But their schools aren’t better overall but simply better fits for their desires. </p>
<p>My daughter is heading to graduate school at Berkeley this fall. Her program is tops in her field and I think they accepted about two students. She also was accepted to a highly selective program at Stanford, which offered her a scholarship worth four times the amount at Berkeley but she turned it down. Berkeley was the better fit for her. This is a kid who went to Brown for UG and went to MIT for grad. You seem keen on Ivies and she also got into Penn for UG and Columbia and Cornell for grad previously. My D would be the last person to put down Stanford or any other school. But Berkeley is really the best fit for her career and grad school aspirations, but it is not the best school, or better than Stanford. But it is better for HER. Stanford (or USC) are not the end all and be all “best.” But they are great schools. I would much rather read why your kids selected their schools and not why their schools are better than these other fine colleges. They aren’t “better.” They are simply very good, as are the other schools being discussed.</p>
<p>JackUK – I have a child at USC, and my suggestion for students looking for an LAC kind of experience their first couple of years would be to consider the small honors programs within the university. They have these for science and the humanities, where the program is called Thematic Option. I’ve carried on about the quality of this program on cc before, so hope that posters who have heard this from me will forgive me, but my kid had a terrific, intellectually stimulating experience with TO, which takes in 200 students a year. All of the gen ed requirements are covered in the TO curriculum, which consists entirely of very small seminars taught by professors, heavy on reading and writing. I believe that the writing component of the program does make heavy use of advanced grad student TA’s, however a good part of the writing program is virtually a 1:1 tutorial, so no complaints. Involvement with professors was easy and encouraged. There is also an annual TO conference in which selected students present research papers. </p>
<p>In terms of housing, freshman year, no problem. Soph year, students can live in university housing, but some of that housing abuts campus but is not on campus. The area north of campus is very heavily patrolled by campus security and LAPD, and does seem like an extension of the campus in some ways. Junior and senior years, a great majority of students are in private apartments or houses close to campus or Greek houses.</p>
<p>Greek life is very active, but a majority of students do not join. An active social life does not require Greek affiliation.</p>
<p>Nester - Thanks for the great comments.</p>
<p>You’re welcome – we were real dyed in the wool Bruins until our kid started at USC. The arts scene is so active and exciting (theater, film, music, art) beyond the academic charm of TO, that we can’t say enough positive things. </p>
<p>Another tip I always give parents contemplating USC is, for Pete sake, have your kid prep for the PSAT. I realize that suggesting kids prep like crazy for this is not a popular choice here on cc, and not to be mercenary, but USC gives 4 year, 50% tuition scholarships to all NMF’s who designate USC first choice and maintain a full load with a B average once enrolled. (You don’t have to designate until you hear where you’ve gotten in, so no issues there.)</p>
<p>“what matters” is being accurate. </p>
<p>The accuracy in saying UCLA and Cal UG programs are not that good anymore is supported by a massive amount of accurate data, starting with test scores and class size. It’s wrong for UCLA/Cal parents to cast these schools in a positive light, as if it was 1980 or something, to parents and kids from the east who don’t know what’s going on in California. Both Cal and UCLA are broke. They’re losing 100’s and 100’s of millions of dollars, on top of the problems they already have. This is a very serious problem that is a shame, both of these schools use to be great. </p>
<p>Now many of the grad schools, especially at Cal, leveraging Federal grants for research are still well funded. For example the new LLB campus selection that’s going on right now, that’s a billion dollar facility for grad students and researchers working in energy, it’s funded mainly from the fed. But in the UG program kids wait in line and if they’re in econ, engineering or science they’re looking at 5 years to graduate because classes are not available (this already the case)</p>
<p>You may call this information slamming someone’s school. I call it helping prospective parents/kids make an informed decision about what’s really going on out here.</p>
<p>As the UC Regent in that article says, “students have no idea how bad this really is” going to be…the UC’s seriously making deep, deep cuts, and continuing with professor layoffs they started 2 years ago.</p>
<p>Nester - Great point about PSATs. I had read that somewhere on CC but forgot about it. Does anyone know 1) what PSAT score you need to be an NMF? and 2) do you have to take the PSAT during sophomore year to be an NMF? Thanks, Jackuk</p>