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[quote]
In an extraordinary turn of events, an Alameda County Superior Court judge issued a tentative ruling today prohibiting the state from carrying out its plan to deny diplomas to tens of thousands of high school seniors in the Class of 2006 who have been unable to pass the exit exam.</p>
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<p>The suit, Valenzuela v. California, claimed that students who have repeatedly failed the test -- especially English learners -- have not had a fair opportunity to learn the material because they are more likely to attend overcrowded schools and have teachers without proper credentials.</p>
<p>Well, they still might need it in the future -- its probably a preliminary injunction that will have a trial & further proceedings later on. Of course this all can be blocked by appellate courts.</p>
<p>Is this really true??? I thought only the charter schools were exempted from having credentialled teachers (and I doubt that those in charter schools are the ones who failing the test). I know that a few teachers might have "emergency credentials" but I can't believe that all those kids who failed only had teachers without full credentials.</p>
<p>I used to teach a summer school class to help prepare ESL kids for this test. Unless a kid only recently came to this country, then he/she has probably had MANY opportunities to help prepare for and pass that test. Plus, the test is given many, many times throughout the high school years so that kids have MANY opportunities to pass the test. </p>
<p>Something like this happened a few years ago in Florida when a number of seniors had still not passed that state's exam (and it had a very generous passing score -- something like 58%)</p>
<p>If a kid has only recently come to this country and can't read/write English, why should he be given a US high school diploma? A high school diploma should mean something (didn't we have a thread a few weeks ago debating what a hs diploma should mean????)</p>
<p>Do people REALLY want to give diplomas to students who can't read and write in English at a very basic level???? If so, are you willing to have the meaning of a hs diploma diminished?</p>
<p>"The exit exam is a test of 7th- to 10th-grade English, math and algebra skills."</p>
<p>and 47,000 (10%) seniors this year can't pass the exam (after many attempts),.... </p>
<p>If we just give them a diploma, how can it be a "high school" diploma if they can't do high school work? Would you give a BS degree to people who never passed upper level courses???</p>
<p>I think the ruling was idiotic. If the government wants to get them out of high school or something give them a certificate of completion basically saying "Thanks for showing up for four years" and give the diplomas to people who've passed the test so the diploma actually retains some merit. I'd even go further and raise the standards. </p>
<p>If they haven't learned lower level material how were they advanced to high school? Did they just get shoved along from elementary to middle to high school?</p>
<p>There should be an elementary and middle school advancement exam if this 10% does not decrease.</p>
<p>I don't know the background of this test, but wouldn't such a test in the end change a rotten system? Wouldn't it get parents up in arms if their children attend underperforming schools (school districts with limited funding)? Why in the world would any community want young people to end up with certificates of completion? It doesn't make any sense, especially in a state like California.</p>
<p>what I don't understand is- if it is supposed to be a test of the competency of the high school student/curriculum- why is it testing 7th-10th grade- and not 12th grade+ ?</p>
<p>If they haven't learned lower level material how were they advanced to high school? Did they just get shoved along from elementary to middle to high school?
got it in one</p>
<p>I don't know anything about the CA test- I know that our state test is not the best and even adults with professional degrees have had trouble with some of the questions-
if the curriculum is meaningful, then they shouldn't need an exit exam.
look at the curriculum, instead of putting the burden on the student to pass yet another test ( and spending money for the test company rather than in the buildings and classrooms)</p>
<p>The test has basic grammar, simple algrebra ( ie x+1=3) etc. The 10% of seniors that don't pass it even though it's a 7-10th grade test just shows that along the line somewhere, they were just shoved ahead whether or not they learned the material. </p>
<p>Having meaningful curriculum is only one aspect of it all. If the student is unwilling to learn and are just passed onto the next grade they do not deserve a diploma. Diplomas are not a right; no one deserves a diploma for showing up to school for four years and not learning the material. They're not a reward either. They're acknowledgement of the effort, however minimal, was required to pass high school.</p>
<p>we don't teach long division in our schools, apparently because it is not on the exit exam.
Math questions you will get wrong even if you get the answer right and show your work if you are not able to explain in words" how" you did it.
Some students cannot switch from math problems to expository in that time frame and although they are doing well in their classes, do badly on the tests.
I have met very few students who are unwilling to learn.
Some students, have been taught that , the way the classroom is run is difficult for them, either because it goes too fast or too slowly.
These students can give you the impression that they don't care.
But with an engaging teacher, who teaches the material in more than one way, and is receptive enough to the class to notice when they are not picking up the lessons in the way he expected they would, but is flexible enough to realize that the bottom line is that the kids learn- these kinds of teachers have successful students.
In our state, over half the 10th grade students last year, failed to pass all three portions of the test that will be required for this years 10th graders to get a diploma.
However, when they were 9th graders last year, no one suggested they take the test to see how many may need extra help.
No extra help was offered or given to students who might have done badly on the 4th or 7th grade exams.
While it was decided in our district that 10th graders who were not on track credit wise to graduate, would not take the 10th gd test, and would theoretically now be considered 9th graders, nothing has been done for the 11th and 12th graders who are not on track to graduate, because they don't need the test to get a diploma.
Pretty sad
if the academics are important, than these other students should be getting support to graduate, but it has come down to being all about "the test"</p>
<p>Most of the ESL students who have difficulty passing are recent immigrants. They are functional in English well enough to keep up in classes, but haven't achieved perfection in terms of grammar. Grammar can be tricky -- I can often tell when adult poster to this board are non-English speakers, because they have problems with use of articles and function words. Some of these adult posters are highly educated individuals who participate in online discussions at a very sophisticated level... but they still make rudimentary errors in phrasing. I know that when my daughter studied abroad in Russia, she attained conversational fluency -- she could communicate her wants and needs to her host family, she could understand most of what was being said to her in school -- but her grammar & usage was terrible. She was painfully aware of that fact, but it involved mastering a whole set of rules and conventions that have no parallels in English. </p>
<p>Our top universities all accept international student who have difficulties with English grammar; many are graduate students employed as teaching assistants. They are supposed to pass the TOEFL, but no one expects them to do really well on the SAT writing exam. </p>
<p>Many nuances of English grammar and usage are particularly difficult because oral English differs from written English. I've noticed that international internet users quickly pick up American slang.... but that's not going to get them past a test that requires them to recognize the error of a dangling participle. If I see the phrase, "Where are you going to?" - I immediately recognize the grammatical faux pas..... but of course we hear that all time. The math whiz Chinese immigrant who instead says, "Where you going?" because isn't going to flunk out of college because of that common error. </p>
<p>Ideally the system could develop an alternative high school test for non-native speakers that focuses on comprehension rather than grammatical structure, which would better serve the needs of making sure that the immigrants have a functional command of English. But they haven't done it yet -- and the denial of a high school diploma is a tremendous barrier to intelligent kids who could do well in college, where they could also continue their studies of English.</p>
<p>Honestly, all I want is for there to be some proof that students have learned what they're supposed to and then get promoted to the next grade instead of being shoved along. </p>
<p>I agree special exceptions should be made for recent immigratns etc but not all of that 10% is recent immigrants. </p>
<p>They're kids who were born here and were just shoved along by the school system. I guess that's my mine gripe, not about them revoking the test or anything but just how the school system is set up. People are just shoved along.</p>
<p>The were given three chances to take and pass the test. Once in 10th, 11th and 12th. Any decent teacher would have helped a student if they asked for help after failing it once. Would have helped if they failed it twice. Third time, wait a minute, somethings wrong. They either should have never been in the 12th grade or something else is affecting their performance on the test.</p>
<p>I've sat in classes where the students flat out don't care. The teachers try to be engaging, try to teach the course but they flat out arent' interested. Granted some courses are boring but are a necessity. </p>
<p>I'll use for example the Keyboarding class (which is rather dull and uninteresting) that my video editing class shares the room with. It's a simple class to pass, you sit at a computer and learn how to type. They may not want to learn how to type but I think everyone can agree typing is a fundamental skill that is needed. So at this point, it becomes the students responsiblity to learn it. If you can type 30 words you can skip it and move on to a higher elective in that area (html, digital video editing etc) if you choose or just take another elective. The students are unwilling to do this. They surf the internet, chat amongst themselves and ignore the teacher.</p>
<p>Typing 30 words a minute by the end the semester will get a student an A. Even just finishing the work will get at least a C. The vast majority of the class? F's with 30 days left in the semester.</p>
<p>Ultimately, don't just shove these kids along either. 10% this year, what's to keep it from increasing next year?</p>
<p>First of all, you need to learn how to spell "algebra" ; ) ...second, "x+1=3" is what I was teaching my first graders last year. I am in a school with about 80% Hispanics, and we are still getting kids in fifth grade, just over the border, who have never gone to school. In two years, they are expected to be at grade level. This year my third graders are being tested (this week) on three-place multiplication, division with remainders, decimals, comparing unlike fractions, right angles, and more. Most of these math problems are complicated "word problems". You do not see tests with simple computation problems anymore.
When we have parents who are illiterate in both languages, the kids have absolutely no help at home....but tax dollars subsidize credentialed after-school tutoring. And, I must say we do a really good job. Our school's math scores were in about the 70th percentile last year. Our reading scores were in about the 50th percentile and for our socio-economic area, that's really good as well.
I agree that we should not be giving high school diplomas to students who do not read or write on a high school level, but California has gone too far.
My daughter tutored a senior girl last year in Algebra at her high school. This poor girl had taken it three times. She did pass the test (barely) to get her high school diploma.
We have no courses for kids to learn skills they can use right out of high school.There are no more metal shop, auto mechanic, secretarial courses, etc. The high schools in our area only have curriculum for college-bound students.</p>
<p>Simple typing error =). The high schols in your area only having curriculum for college-bound students is something to take up with the school board in your area. </p>
<p>I edited my post while you were posting yours. My main gripe isn't about recent immigrants. It's about people who've been here all there lives not learning the material and just getting shoved along by the school system. </p>
<p>If you're teaching "x+1=3" to you first graders how do you justify giving someone a diploma if high schoolers can't even do that? </p>
<p>So your third graders are expected to be able to do complicated word problems but when it puts people in jeopardy of not receiving a high school diploma you're against it?</p>
<p>Anyway, do away with the test if you want. I just want some accountability to make sure they're really learning and not getting shoved along. Passing grades are not indicative of learning.</p>
<p>Richmond High, the school that Valenzuela attends, has been designated for resructuring under the No Child Left Behind Act because it has failed to make adequate yearly annual progress for seven years. This is the absolute worst situation that a school can be in under the law, short of being shut down completely.</p>
<p>Anyone have information about how many of th 56% that aren't English learners pass/fail the English portion of the exam? If 90% of high school seniors have passed the exam, the exam isn't overly difficult then imo. The 10% needs to be addressed. If they're recent immigrants and don't pass the English or math portion because of language issues, I understand. But if they're part of that 56% that aren't English learners and they fail the English portion, somewhere along the line something went very wrong. </p>
<p>"California's high school exit exam also carries strong support among voters and the business community -- future employers of today's high school students -- who share O'Connell's view that a diploma should indicate a basic level of academic skill."</p>
<p>That's the ultimate goal of the test. The test might be lousy but the goal is important. If anyone has an alternative to the exit exam great but at the moment it's all we have.</p>
<p>The test and its results, if they do get nullified, will atleast serve as a wakeup call to how much education still needs to be fixed. Not just from the school stand-point but also on the student/parent side. I'm going to repeat myself again but students shouldn't get shoved along like they do and parents shouldn't complain if they're children fail and get them shoved along. They should find out why their child failed and if it was a valid reason, address it. If it wasn't, bring it to the attention of the administration.</p>
<p>I took this test 2 years ago. I thought the test was really easy. My school had something like a 96% passing rate on the first try and almost 100% by 12th grade. But i do understand how kids from bad schools can have trouble with it.</p>
<p>Yeah, try passing the same test given in Spanish not so easy. ;)</p>
<p>Some statistics (these are from 1997, I couldn't find more recent ones):</p>
<ul>
<li><p>California, which educates 12.5 percent of American public school children, has 43 percent of all limited-English students in the country, followed by Texas, New York, Florida and Illinois.</p></li>
<li><p>Although Spanish is the dominant non-English language, the linguistic spectrum is vast: Eighty-seven primary languages are spoken in the state's schools--sometimes dozens in a single school.</p></li>
<li><p>From 1990 to 1996, the proportion of students considered "limited English proficient" in California's kindergarten through 12th-grade classrooms has jumped to nearly 25 percent.</p></li>
<li><p>Despite the existence of laws that mandate schools to provide some special assistance to LEP students, 21% of LEP students in California receive no special services at all</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Ahhhh..... So..only 44% of the 47,000 kids that constantly failed the test are English learners. The remaining 56% are English speakers and they still failed. </p>
<p>Poverty is not an excuse for not knowing basic math, reading and writing skills. That is an insult to the many poor who manage to not only do well in high school but go on to achieve higher success. Many of us have parents that grew up in poverty, yet they write beautifully and do math computations IN THEIR HEADS!!! </p>
<p>Poverty is not an excuse to no "parent" and not instill in your kids the need to go to school and do their homework (a parent does not have to even 'be there" every minute to instill this ethic if the child is "brain washed" from an early age that education is important (I use the word "brain washed" in a positive way).</p>