<p>This summer another mom and I took our 2 sons on a driving trip down the coast of California to visit schools (also Magic Mountain - that was the bribe). My son wants to be an engineer, so I wanted to see which UC's were strongest in engineering. I looked at USNAWR list of top 50 grad schools in engineering for guidance (it was free - I'm too cheap to subscribe). Interesting that of the top 50 grad programs in engineering, 9 are in Calif. (UCB, UCSD, UCLA, UCSB, UCD, UCI, Stanford, USC, Cal Tech), and all of those except for UCD and UCI are listed in the top 20. When you add in Harvey Mudd and Cal Poly, which don't give PhD's but rank highly on their own list, you realize why Calif. is such an engineering powerhouse.</p>
<p>And because there's a lot of science nerds here...lol no joke.</p>
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<p>All the notable schools have been described so I won't go into that although I will say that Cal Poly is cheaper for out of state students compared to the UC's so don't count out the whole CSU system.</p>
<p>The biggest difference I notice is public transportation. The bay area has BART which is convenient, however in Southern California is, to be quite frank, horrible. The metro system is not as big or as widely used as the rail systems in large cities on the east coast such as NY or Boston. Also if you come to UCLA or USC I suggest you bring a car. It's the only way to have access to the best of southern California without leeching rides from others.</p>
<p>I have lived in 3 New York boroughs, Washington D.C., Los Angeles, and now outside of San Francisco. There are neighborhoods in both California and New York that are extremely diverse (I'd have to say NYC has more variety among their ethnicities, but perhaps more Caucasians as well ) but outside of the cities proper, it gets a little monotonous,</p>
<p>Oh yes. If you're going to live in SoCal you NEED a car...you won't be able to get around well otherwise. I don't even attempt public transportation here.</p>
<p>When/if (I really want to) I go to San Fran State, I'll probably bring a car for trips home where I don't want to try...but I love taking the BART, it's fun. :)</p>
<p>All this debate about LA versus New York and the rest of the world. In fact, Sacramento was fairly recently listed as the country's most diverse city ;) It was just a magazine ranking, so please don't actually think I'm trying to enter this debate! But the important points to note are that there's a lot more to diversity than "% non-white," and anyone would be a fool to argue that ANY of the places mentioned so far aren't exceptionally diverse relative to most of the rest of the country. I once had a very small class with one born-and-bred LA resident and one born-and-bred Brooklyn resident, and oh my Lord, the heated "LA vs. NY" arguments get old. It comes down to nothing more than "To each, his own." There are HUGE differences between the west coast, east coast, and midwest, but they're not usually the type of things you can nail down or generalize. Bear in mind, also, that when talking about Stanford, some LACs (Claremont, for example), perhaps CalTech (don't know the numbers), etc., we're talking about schools with significant OOS populations, so geographic stereotypes are largely irrelevant. Furthermore, "California" is a big and varied place, and "the rest of the country" or even just "the east coast" is even more so. It's more complex than rural vs. urban, and more complex than NorCal vs. SoCal (San Diego and LA are as incomparable as Orange County to Watts). And it's DEFINITELY more complex than "NY vs. LA," because big cities, for better of for worse, transcend regional generalities and should never be taken as representative. </p>
<p>I grew up in the midwest, moved to NorCal around middle school, and went to college in SoCal. Personally, I'm very glad that I grew up outside of California, but also very glad that I moved when I did...I think it's a unique place to experience living at some point in your life. The state's abundant natural beauty--north and south alike--is breathtaking and easily accessible (you're probably never more than two hours from mountains or ocean or both), and the level of social tolerance is very high relative to most of the country (even in conservative areas). There are things that Californians just take for granted, so will really only be apparent to visitors (and these are both good and bad...yes, more social tolerance, but also probably yes, more materialism...neither to any degree that is very clear until you leave the state and make a point of noticing). </p>
<p>For me, one of the most notable differences between CA and other areas is the landscape. Architecture, city structure, skylines, suburbs...there's just a very different feeling to driving through anywhere in California vs. driving through most other places that I've seen. If you visit a college in CA, you'll probably know what I mean as soon as you leave the airport. Some people will feel "This is so big and loud and exciting!" and some will feel "This is filthy and disorganized." And hey, depending on where you are, you might also feel like "Um...this is California?" The state won't necessarily match your stereotypes at all (as I sadly realized upon arriving from the midwest..."Those are fields and farms. Where's the beach?"), but it will likely feel different, nonetheless.</p>
<p>I'm very happy to have left SoCal...I just don't like the atmosphere. Nothing to do with weather or diversity or public transportation or superficiality...it's just not an area that "clicks" with me. My little sister, on the other hand, never wants to leave it...she thrives there. She's really disliked what she's seen of the northeast, and would never consider moving back to the midwest, while I'd definitely go to either in a heartbeat.</p>
<p>Like "pop vs. soda," the "CA vs. the rest of the country" question seems to be one that inspires a lot of bizarre and unnecessary debate. All I can say, over and over again, is that there are many important differences, and they're different for every single person. Visit and decide, or be willing to take the risk!</p>
<p>I live on the east coast and go to school on the west coast. When I'm at college I miss the east coast lifestyle, scenery, weather, etc. When I'm at home I miss the west coast lifestyle, scenery, weather, etc. I think both are really great parts of America, but just different styles.</p>
<p>Also, it's not really right to just compare entire coasts' lifestyles. A stay-at-home mom in a suburb 10 miles from Pittsburgh has more in common with another stay-at-home mom in a suburb 10 miles from San Diego. A farmer living in an exurb 40 miles from LA has a lot in common with a farmer living in an exurb 40 miles from Boston.</p>
<p>^^^ Couldn't agree more. Both coasts have a lot going for them, and both have their drawbacks. There is no better answer as to which is better. For each his own. Both coasts have their big famous cities. The West Coast has San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle. The East Coast has Washington DC, New York, Boston, Philadelphia. The only way to tell what fits you best is to go visit them and make up your own mind!</p>
<p>UC schools are a joke. seriously, any college that is willing to admitt people easily from CC must not be good. Besides Berkely which has the name recognition, other UC schools are just considered good because it a large campus. UC are a joke to get into, YES, hard for out of state students but California's socialists admissions system is a joke.</p>
<p>wow random. it sounds like you need to go to college. "because it a large campus." hmmm. Damn, sounds like im screwed. I didnt know UCLA and UCSD were such crappy schools. haha give me a break.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UC schools are a joke. seriously, any college that is willing to admitt people easily from CC must not be good. Besides Berkely which has the name recognition, other UC schools are just considered good because it a large campus. UC are a joke to get into, YES, hard for out of state students but California's socialists admissions system is a joke.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I hope you're not serious, but if you are...
Are Harvard and Yale "jokes" because they occasionally admit CC transfers. If UCs are just considered good because "it a large campus" then why isn't Ohio State considered one of the top few colleges in the country? It's far larger than any UC. And if name recognition is your criteria for being good, I presume you are willing to say that the University of Oklahoma is better than elite LACs like Amherst or Williams. After all, it probably has better name recognition. As for UCs being "a joke to get into," perhaps you have failed to note that the vast majority of schools in the country are even easier to get into than UC Merced. And it would be impossible to find a public university system in this country with as many campuses that are actually quite selective in admissions as you would find in the UC system.
[quote]
California's socialists admissions system is a joke
[/quote]
I'm quoting this again to point out how absurd a statement it is. What is "socialist" about California's admissions system. That it is run by the government? Are you against public universities entirely? Or perhaps that it favors California students? Do you really think that the children of the taxpayers who help fund the university should not get first access to its resources? That CA taxpayers should fund a system that does not primarily benefit the people of CA? Or perhaps you don't like the "socialist" notion used by the UCs that applicants' credentials should be considered in the light of the circumstances in which they grew up. Aside from the fact that this definition would make the admissions at any private university in the country "socialist" and therefore "a joke," perhaps you believe that admissions should be based entirely on privilege. After all, if we simply had students bid for their admissions slot, we would have a very "capitalist" system. Far preferable, I'm sure.</p>
<p>edit: A quick look through SarahLitke's posts reveals that she seems to attend the University of Maryland. So lets judge it, in comparison to the UCs, on her scale. The University of Maryland accepts CC transfers, so it "must not be good." It has 25,000 undergrads, about the same number as UCLA, which we have learned is "just considered good because it a large campus," so clearly the same is true about Maryland. According to US News, Maryland is less selective than Berkeley, LA, San Diego, Irvine, and Santa Barbara, and tied with Davis, so clearly it must also be "a joke to get into." I'm still not sure what "socialists [sic] admissions system" actually means, but I can't think of a way in which the UCs would qualify but not Maryland. So, according to SarahLitke's own logic, her apparent school of choice is "a joke." I'm sorry, SarahLitke, that you are forced to attend a joke.</p>
<p>Note to those who will miss the point of the above: I emphatically do not think Maryland is a joke. I am merely pointing out to SarahLitke that by her own standards, it is.</p>
<p>^I agree completely. As a student who grew up in California, I know firsthand how the system works and let me tell you, it's incredibly hard to get into the UC/CSU of your choice. Why?</p>
<p>They don't just look at GPA/Class Rank/SAT/ACT scores anymore. They want you to have all of those stats in decent standing, PLUS good EC's, PLUS good community service, PLUS a stellar essay/interview, etc.</p>
<p>I don't know which CA schools you've been looking at, but let me tell you, they are in no way "a joke". And I would be INCREDIBLY upset if CA students did not get preference. My parents help pay to keep those schools around, and yet we shouldn't get first preference? Um yeah no. </p>
<p>And that doesn't just go for CA either. I think students in every state should get first preference to schools in their state.</p>
<p>thats funny sarah litke, cause last i checked, berkeley was not the only great school in california.
If all states became their own countries, california would arguably be considered the best country for education in the world.</p>
<p>Top Business, we have Berkeley, and Stanford (for grads).
Top Law, we have Berkeley and Stanford, as well as UCLA and USC.
Top Med programs, we have UCSF and Stanford, and even UCLA and UCSD.
Top Engineering, we have Stanford,Berkeley, and caltech, as well as other UCs being among the top 20 best.
Education, we have Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, and even USC.
Top science, we have Stanford, Berkeley, UCSD, UCSF, Caltech.
Top econ, we have Cal, and stanford.
Political science, we have Stanford and Cal, as well as many top IR programs.
English, psych, and other social sciences, we have the top UCs and stanford.</p>
<p>Well, call me a socialist, I guess, cuz I am under this strange impression that the main purpose of a public university system is to provide quality higher education to the state's residents at a reasonable cost. Last time I checked, California seems to do a better job of this than just about any other state in the nation. My state's university system sucks in comparison.</p>
<p>Yeah man, you can't f**k with the UCs, best public education system in the land.</p>
<p>they have done well for me. i cant complain.</p>
<p>OP:</p>
<p>what is your UC gpa? (Ignores Frosh grades, academic classes only.) A 3.7w gpa is not competitive for Cal nor UCLA OOS. IMO, I don't think the UCs are worth the OOS cost of attendance; finaid for OOS is poor. For that kinda money, I'd recommend the benefits of a private college.</p>
<p>You have great test scores. Are you a NMSF? If so, USC will provide a near-automatic tuition discount and will tend to overlook your gpa unlike the UCs which are much more focused on your transcript.</p>
<p>OOS is tough to break into</p>
<p>"UC schools are a joke. seriously, any college that is willing to admitt people easily from CC must not be good. Besides Berkely which has the name recognition, other UC schools are just considered good because it a large campus. UC are a joke to get into, YES, hard for out of state students but California's socialists admissions system is a joke."</p>
<p>HAHAHA are you serious. So UCSD and UCLA suck. Thats funny. Because i could have sworn that both of them had many programs ranking among the top 20 departments in the country. And why is it that the two best public universities in the country are Cal and UCLA? Why don't we compare your level of education and university knowledge with that of students from the UCs.</p>
<p>"wow random. it sounds like you need to go to college. "because it a large campus." hmmm. Damn, sounds like im screwed. I didnt know UCLA and UCSD were such crappy schools. haha give me a break."
But Sarah Litke says, and she is obviously right. All UCs suck, even Berkeley, according to Sarah. Berkeley is only good for its name recognition (says sarah).</p>
<p>But then again, Sarah Litke is probably the kind of person that would say that the level of academic instruction at Harvard is equal to the level of academic instruction at rutgers...which is obviously not true. haha.</p>
<p>I think Sarah is losing the battle.</p>