Plus, there ARE good reasons to leave your home state to go to college, if you’re so inclined. For a California kid, a chance to live on the East Coast, or the Midwest, or the South can be an enriching eye-opening cultural experience. I myself encouraged my kids to leave their state just for that reason. But it IS an often pricey option not available to the majority of students – in California and elsewhere – for whom even the state U is a financial challenge.
The decrease in yield for in-state students is slight, but real between 2012 and 2015 across all 10 UC campuses. Google search found this https://senate.universityofcalifornia.edu/_files/reports/documents/BOARS2016ReporttoRegents.pdf
On page 16, there is this chart below, which shows in-state yield decreasing, but OOS yield rising for the 10 campuses overall. I could not find a break down of high-stats kids versus average kids, so it’s anyone guess as to whether California is losing “it’s very best” or if its losing average students (assuming “best” is defined by quantifiable factors such as test scores/GPA). Also, I couldn’t find whether the declining yield holds evenly across all 10 campuses or whether Cal and UCLA are exceptions to the trend. However, UCLA has increased its overall yield steadily over the years, hitting a historical high mark last year - see link here, http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ucla-admissions-20170405-story.html
Table 6.2: Universitywide Freshmen Statement of Intent to Register (SIR) Unduplicated Count
2012 2013 2014 2015
California 36,140 84.5% 35,964 81.7% 35,943 79.8% 34,596 77.3%
Out-of-State 2,772 6.5% 3,302 7.5% 3,691 8.2% 3,949 8.8%
International 3,841 9.0% 4,750 10.8% 5,412 12.0% 6,238 13.9%
Total 42,753 100.0% 44,016 100.0% 45,046 100% 44,783 100.0%
“Sergei Brin, Elon Musk, Joanna Hoffman, Andrew Grove, Alexis Ohanian”
Since we are on a UC thread I checked to see where these immigrants graduated from. Only Andrew Grove was a UC grad and that was Berkeley way back in 1963. All the others graduated from ivy caliber universities such as Stanford, MIT, U Penn and the “public ivy” UVA. That pretty much reinforces the point that truly innovative students are drawn to private universities, which can better meet their needs.
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/freshman-admissions-summary lets you look at counts, admit rates, and yield rates by campus.
@stardustmom,
Any Grove got his PhD from Cal in 1963. His UG education was at City college of NY. Class of 1960.
Sergei Brin graduated UG from U of Maryland, and went to Stanford for his PhD graduate studies.
I’d hardly put where they received their UG educations in the same league as “Ivy caliber.”
Where students go for an UG degree is quite irrelevant to where they go for PhD’s.
@stardustmom
Here are high-tech leaders who went to public universities, including Berkeley and UCLA.
Sergey Brin graduated from the University of Maryland, College Park and his Google co-founder Larry Page graduated from the University of Michigan Ann Arbor. Two of YouTube’s founders, Jawed Karim and Steve Chen, are alum of University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. The third, Chad Hurley, graduated from Indiana University of Pennsylvania (a public). Dean Kamen, inventor of the Segway, is a graduate of Georgia Tech. Apple Co-founder Steve Wozniak graduated from Berkeley. The three founders of gaming giant Blizzard Entertainment are UCLA grads. UCLA, afterall, was the birthplace of the internet, http://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/heres-internet-invented-ucla/
@ucbalumnus Thank you for the link, which shows in-state yield trending up for UCLA, despite overall slight UC decline. Meanwhile, it peaked and then trended down slightly for Berkeley in recent years. What it doesn’t show is how yield is affected by intra-system rivalries. Head-to-head, I think UCLA is gaining on Berkeley, so some of Berkeley’s yield may be lost to UCLA, not an OOS school.
@menloparkmom and @PragmaticMom I was addressing successful immigrants and UCs. If we want to expand the conversation, that’s something else. If you compare privates and publics, you will find that privates produce more well-known innovators and leaders. They have the resources and small class sizes to nurture talent.
Anecdotally, I do know kids picking UCLA over Cal for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is better weather and what’s perceived as a “posher” urban vibe than Berkeley’s scruffier edge.
@stardustmom, you might have been referencing immigrants and UCs, but I wasn’t when I listed Andy Grove, Sergei Brin, et. al., I was commenting on immigrants’ influence on the tech industry in California. Totally a different point than the one you’re making using my example.
" If you compare privates and publics, you will find that privates produce more well-known innovators and leaders"
You are welcome to your own opinion.
That’s not really an opinion, the numbers speak for themselves.
@katliamom I understood your point. I was just trying to relate it back to the thread, which has grown to become whether or not UCs can educate “creative” smart kids.
Amen @SFBayRecruiter in Post #513. Agree completely.
@stardustmom I was responding to this statement that came before: “That pretty much reinforces the point that truly innovative students are drawn to private universities, which can better meet their needs.”
Is there research that points to “truly innovative” immigrants being cultivated at private schools more successfully than public schools or is this a personal observation? Based on campus capacity, and also cost, the number of opportunities to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and succeeding are greater at public colleges.
Are private colleges better at skimming the cream than the top public schools? That might be true. That might be a myth. However, I doubt that private schools, by virtue of having smaller classes, yield better outcomes in innovation.
no mention of US Citizen and Cali resident breakdown. Isnt this the real issue? All this identify politics is nonsense.
@katliamom In our neighborhood, at 2 different high schools, in the last 2-3 years kids are overwhelmingly choosing Berkeley over UCLA. That seems to go against the general trend. My own kid wasn’t even interested in Cal and chose UCLA. I tried to brainwash him from birth with little success.
This list is not about outcomes and only related to Silicon Valley hires:
The top 20 schools hired from appears to have a good mix of both private and public schools.
@katimom Similar to @youcee post, my daughter refused to even apply to Berkeley and targeted UCLA alone!
@CU123 said, “That’s not really an opinion, the numbers speak for themselves.”
What numbers, and what do they speak to? Can someone post a link to these numbers?