“I find it interesting that so often people from other states take great delight in predicting California’s demise. I swear I’ve been reading about it my entire life.”
LOL @SC Anteater!
Ah yes, massive shifts in culture, class, language and demographics do not matter – California has magic sand! Just an fyi, when you were growing up CA public primary and secondary schools were top in the nation – now 40th? There weren’t the insane pension obligations. Or the now $110B per year in welfare costs. And teens weren’t burning their summers, nights, weekends cramming for APs and SATs to get into Berkeley.
No one is celebrating any demise, we’re kibitzing about the changes, for better or worse.
I think the competitiveness of elite colleges has increased on a number – all?-- fronts. It’s not only that test scores, AP classes and GPAs are on the rise. Of course, they are. But we also see significant growth in the pursuit of “hooks.” In my day, I didn’t know any high school seniors who published novels or co-authored research. I didn’t know anyone who had launched a start-up. I didn’t know anyone who founded their own nonprofit or had a YouTube channel with a million followers. I actually know kids today who have done those things. And, in case it matters to the reader, most of them were not Asian. Although, all of them are rich kids.
The diversity of talent that elite colleges are attracting today is amazing. I don’t think it’s narrower or less creative. If anything, it’s more creative and broader than ever before. If CalTech isn’t attracting this kind of diverse talent among applicants, they need to change their marketing.
When my D20 was in fourth grade she went to a math competition and I got on the email list of a private STEM focused after school “academy” for gifted students. Prior to reading these newsletters I thought kids who made it to national science competitions were just mart kids who studied hard. I didn’t know that many are coached from elementary school in STEM Pathways to the Ivy + schools, that they took pre-AP Chem classes in the summer between honors chemistry and AP, that they were enrolled in pricey summer research programs which help them prepare science fair and other competition entries.
@midwestsahm I live in a Midwest state, where my kids attend a school that is 95% white, and it has been that way for generations. Guess what, the AP classes, test prep and grade grubbing is a problem here, too. No one is suggesting that the rat race is a demographic problem in majority-white neighborhoods like mine, even though my affluent white school district shows the same undesirable behaviors.
I agree California schools certainly have problems. But it’s not fair to suggest that these problems don’t exist in other states. Nor is it fair to suggest that those problems are caused by immigration.
Especially considering that it’s immigrants – Sergei Brin, Elon Musk, Joanna Hoffman, Andrew Grove, Alexis Ohanian, and a zillion techies from all over the world – who have revved up the engine that is the California tech industry.
It seems to me that California is losing its very best students out of the state in record numbers. They are increasingly landing at the eight Ivies, MIT, Chicago, Northwestern, JHU, and top 50 ranked schools all over the country.
And this whole website is full of top OOS students applying in record numbers to UCLA, Cal, Stanford, USC, Pomona, Claremont schools etc. Many of those who leave CA will be replaced by those who go there for their education.
@Much2learn: Record numbers? I doubt it. CA has had a large contingent at these schools for generations now. In part this is due to the Northeast being overrepresented in Ivies/equivalents (while CA only has Stanford, tiny Caltech, and tiny Pomona).
And even tinier Mudd.
Plenty OOS kids are applying to California’s schools. And at least last year, yes in record numbers.
Seems to be widespread across more selective colleges and universities across the US, based on these forums. Complaining about Asian tiger kids is done because they are a more identifiable out group than kids of European immigrants.
In terms of creativity, it is still rewarded – in finance. People may think, why create art and struggle to live when you can create innovative financial products that help move more money into your account? In an increasingly winner take all economy, it is no surprise that preprofessional considerations are increasingly important to many students’ college and major choices.
There is a lot less complaining about white immigrants (including those who work without authorization) than brown ones.
UC Merced will become a world-renowned university in time. In fact, if my #1 D (currently at SJSU by choice - her major wasn’t a good fit at any UC and was a CCC transfer) wants to pursue medicine - UCM is high on the list simply because it is a BRAND NEW facility. We have a long-tail thought process. 10, 15, 20 years from now her patients will look at that degree and simply love that the first two letters are UC.
My middle D (also a CCC transfer) has been accepted to UCSC (with Regents), awaiting UCB and UCD. Accepted to SF State and CS Monterey. She was certainly within the top 12% of her HS, but with a graduating class of over 800, highly competitive (Blue Ribbon, etc.) and three siblings that will be in college at the same time - CCC was the right way to go. The end result will still be a diploma from a UC, then on to LSAT and law school. I am VERY high on UCSC due to its research focus. Even at the bachelor’s level, that skill alone, no matter what her eventual career will be forever useful.
My kids fall into the ‘normal’ category - they have lives, they played sports, dated, did the fun clubs, etc. Did they do AP? yes, a couple - but not 6-10. One did ‘Project Lead the Way’ (good for six STEM units from Univ of MO!).
Calfornia is spoiled - we do have a world-class state college system (UC and CSU). Yet we also have a poorly funded one that simply can’t admit as many in-state students that the original charters were designed to support. The systems did not grow enough to keep up with demand.
The super-humans we support are a product of us as the parents, and them as being ‘woke’ kids, just trying to keep at that top 1, 5, 10%
@PurpleTitan
“Record numbers? I doubt it. CA has had a large contingent at these schools for generations now.”
CA has been well represented on the East Coast for a long time, but the numbers continue to move higher. As with most states, CA families are increasingly willing to consider ranked schools out of state. Frustration with in-state admissions is also giving them a nudge.
Additionally, East Coast schools have realized that CA is one distant state where they can find a high enough concentration of good students to make it worth putting some additional effort into reaching out to families. For example, Lehigh opened a CA office within the last few years, and I am sure they aren’t the only one.
Also, last year I noticed that CA had the third most students admitted to Penn. Only PA and NY had more. I was a bit surprised by that but for a CA student who is has a decent shot at Stanford, where else are you going to consider applying? Probably to Ivies, MIT, and a few more.
Yup. I had not idea any of this was going on. I guess I never made it to the right mailing lists. To be honest, I’m kind of intrigued by the idea of Pre-AP chem. My daughter will be taking AP chem this year and is definitely nervous about it. I could see the value of study over the summer.
Re: “pre AP chemistry”
When I was in high school, there was just regular chemistry for most college bound high school students. Those who wanted a more advanced chemistry course could take AP chemistry for a semester the next year after taking regular chemistry. This was the only AP science at the high school.
Again, probably for the 12th time now, I never said or insinuated that it was “somehow inappropriate.” It is, however, as unrealistic for a CA student to assume that his aspirations to remain in-state should be, morally speaking, congruent with his aspirations (if he has those) to be accepted to an Elite college as it would be for a student in NY, CT, or MA. There are only a few “so-called” “elites” in the State, and as we all know, the competition for those few colleges is not only national; it is international, with a fixed number of spaces in the freshman class.
There are wonderful opportunities for any student who wants to remain in-state, in any state in the Union. Those opportunities are sufficient and even abundant for any student determined to apply himself to the task. But the particular state of CA has far more excellent students than it has places in particular institutions called “elite.” (For better or worse, that designation.)
Make. Your. Choice. And do so without complaint, because the U.S. is full to overflowing with many excellent opportunities in higher education, residency, lifestyle, and employment. If you want to stay in CA, I have already listed the huge number of opportunities, and I don’t know why students should consider those limited, unless the field is so specialized that no CA colleges offer those fields of study. In which case, the whole country and world is your oyster, but you will have to “sacrifice” the CA lifestyle and weather, should you choose outside options.
No one, none of us, has some constitutional right to having it “all.” I know a number of people (including some students) who refuse to leave CA because they like the political atmosphere in CA, the multicultural environment, etc. Terrific. But then you will be limiting yourself to the many CA educational opportunities that exist.
@epiphany : Interesting how you choose to call yourself out. I did not speak to any particular posts. I (intentionally) made a very general comment. I do not disagree with much of your post #517. So … chill.
@Much2learn, well, CA is the most populous state in the country (by far), so it shouldn’t be surprising to find a large contingent of Californians at any top uni in the country.