@ucbalumnus TBH I think a lot of prospective students don’t want to go to UCR or UCM because, well, they are in Riverside and Merced. And that is a VALID reason…
Tons of CSU schools are in awesome locations (SD, LB, SF, SLO, etc) and a lot of kids would love a college experience in those places.
I’m not sure I can believe those numbers.
From https://admissions.berkeley.edu/first-gen-resources: “Of our admitted students, 17 percent are first generation.”
I don’t think UCB dares to lie in public.
Also, “first gen” does not necessarily mean “just started paying CA taxes.”
Add in ~20% for full pay OOS/international, plus the bonus points for low income students, and there ain’t many spots left for high achieving suburban kids.
First generation college kids have parents who have also been paying taxes.
Looks quite untrue, based on actual admissions and enrollment data.
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/freshman-admissions-summary
1G applicant % / admit % / enrolled % / campus
28% / 20% / 21% / UCB
32% / 21% / 30% / UCLA
Since about 31% of California’s >25 population has a bachelor’s degree, that means that their kids are still overrepresented at UCB and UCLA (even if a large percentage of the bachelor’s degree parents were married to non-bachelor’s degree other parents to minimize the number of kids who would be first-generation-to-college). Not too surprising, since educational attainment transmits well across generations.
Last I checked, many parents who did not complete bachelor’s degrees themselves are honest hardworking people who pay California sales and income taxes. (Even the “Romney 47%” refers only to federal income taxes, not various other taxes.)
@austinmshauri and others, please remember that this thread wasn’t started by a Californian and neither was the choice of words “bitter” and “shut out.” I think “confused” and “disappointed” are much more accurate. The landscape has shifted tremendously in recent years, and this year was a doozy. Some have suggested it’s just confusion over the UC GPA, but I don’t think it is. Kids with sky-high stats are being accepted to top-ranked private colleges, including the Ivies, and are either being waitlisted or outright rejected from Cal or UCLA and in some cases UCSD and UCSB. Many of us have the Naviance stats to show just how different this year is from previous ones. With the personal insight questions of the past couple of years, I think the UCs are becoming more and more holistic in a way that absolutely tends to hurt kids from suburban, middle or upper middle class backgrounds.
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/initiative/student-opportunity/first-generation-students
^^
“42 % of all UC students are first generation.”
the 40 and 35% figures are those I learned of a couple of years ago.
so they may have dropped due to the considerable blow-back UC admissions officials received.
That is systemwide, not necessarily at each campus.
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/freshman-admissions-summary lists the systemwide peak for new frosh at 43% in 2011; most recently 40% for 2017. Transfers are presumably higher.
By campus, UCB and UCLA have the lowest first-generation-to-college frosh enrollment (21% and 30% respectively in 2017); UCM and UCR have the highest (77% and 55% respectively in 2017).
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/transfer-admissions-summary lists UCB and UCLA transfer enrollees for 2017 at 46% and 50% first-generation-to-college respectively. But the number of transfer enrollees is significantly smaller than the number of frosh enrollees, and transfer admissions is probably not what your college consultant and his/her hearsay are concerned about.
“There are also UCR and UCM, but many students seem to think that those campuses are “beneath” them. Those same students are likely to think of CSUs other than CPSLO as “beneath” them.”
@ucbalumnus…completely true for some on here at those UC’s where you will still receive a TOP NOTCH education. CSU’s as well where you can receive an excellent education at a much more affordable price! Possibly only CPSLO Engineering for some but even quality locations like CSF, CSULB, SJSU, and SDSU (GREAT schools) still get the “snub” by more than a few here chasing “prestige” (or whatever else) that wouldn’t be caught dead at any CSU. Suprised there is not a Cal State University thread like this (maybe they accept everybody though so not necessary? lol)…oh yeah, everybody ONLY wants to go to UCLA, Berkeley, and some “other” UC’s but of course not at all locations!
“Students aren’t being shut out, they’re just not getting accepted to their preferred campuses?”
@austinmshauri …exactly!! They can definitely get in to one of the nine UC Campuses and receive a top notch education, but won’t consider ALL OF THEM if they don’t make their first (or possibly second or more? choices) due to “location”, “lower tier” (in the case of Merced, Riverside, Santa Cruz) or whatever else they are concerned about. Bitterness is due to a myriad of reasons…which we have read about in an endless loop. Blaming out of state students, foreigners, and the like. I’m sure you can also receive a top notch education at all SUNY schools as that is great system…has some parallels to the UC’s but doesn’t sound to be as drastic nearly as drama filled as the UC’s!
@TTdd16 As @ucbalumnus pointed out way back at post #163 http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/21411211/#Comment_21411211 the difference is likely most noticeable at those high schools in very wealthy areas with guidance counselors that are skilled at helping kids get into top private schools. At our more typical suburban public school, with pretty hopeless counselors, the disparity tends to run in the opposite direction, with kids getting into UCB/UCLA (where applicants don’t submit recommendations etc), but being rejected from top private colleges despite their sky-high stats.
@menloparkmom your post seems to (maybe inadvertently) assume that those “first gen” admits have lower stats than other applicants. Isn’t it wholly possible that those percentage goals are easily reached by accepting top-performing applicants who would have been admitted anyway?
Without rereading the nearly 600 posts in this thread, has anyone that was completely shut out by the UCs posted in this thread?
Re: 592
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/2072558-accepted-into-0-schools.html would be an example. Applied to 6 UCs with a 4.0 weighted capped GPA (all high matches or reaches based on 2017 admit rates by GPA band). Did not apply to UCSC, UCR, UCM.
“Without rereading the nearly 600 posts in this thread, has anyone that was completely shut out by the UCs posted in this thread?”
@youcee …NOPE!!! If so, I would like to hear from them please on here!!!
@ucbalumnus Just speculating as to the reason why, but his GPA was below average for those UCs. He might have been like us with our kid a few years ago, a bit overconfident with a high SAT. Without knowing how the essays were, you have to figure there is a certain number like that that have every 50/50 decision go against them unfortunately. Probably would have got in Riverside. Just needed that 1 more app.
“http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/2072558-accepted-into-0-schools.html would be an example. Applied to 6 UCs with a 4.0 weighted capped GPA (all high matches or reaches based on 2017 admit rates by GPA band). Did not apply to UCSC, UCR, UCM.”
@ucbalumnus …thanks for that link…I think that describes a lot of people on here without a “safety”. At least the ones here seem to have other options unlike outside of this forum for many. Have not seen ONE PERSON ON HERE that applied to ALL UC’s and was COMPLETELY shut out!!!
I look at it from the opposite perspective. CA parents should be grateful that we have one of the best (if not the best) public university in the world. With UCB and UCLA, there are 2 world class universities that enroll ~12k freshmen every year most of whom are CA residents. With UCSD, UCI, UCD and UCSB we have four more universities each of which would be the top flagship university and in every other state except VA, MI, NC, and MA. With UCR and UCSC, we have two more universities that would be top flagships in probably half the other states. In UCM, we have an exciting new university which would be the top flagship university in a handful of other states. That is just the UC system. Haven’t even mentioned the CSU system yet, with 2 strong tech schools, SLO and Pomona, and many other strong CSU schools throughout the state.
VA is really the only other state comes close to CA in providing world class public higher education on a per capita basis, with UVA, W&M, VA Tech and JMU. But imho, the CA system is the benchmark that all other states and countries should aspire to.
This fantastic university system has helped fuel CA growth. One of the best things CA did historically was to make higher education affordable. Attracted people from all over the country including your truly. When I graduated from a CSU a long time ago, it was essentially free. (The whole time I was there parking and books cost more than tuition). I am VERY grateful for education I received in the CSU system and opportunities it has afforded me. I have a long and satisfying career and CSU helped jump start that career. I am also grateful that other CA taxpayers helped subsidize that career. I try to pay it back by making a lot of money so I have to pay a lot of taxes, lol, but I also donate to my alma mater regularly.
I think that CA is making a big mistake by lowering the % of the budget that goes toward higher education subsidies. Although I do understand that with our size promoting growth through education subsidies is a hard sell to many. But the payoffs can be enormous. Look at Silicon Valley and how UCB and SJSU have helped contribute to its early stage development. There is also the biotech industry in north San Diego county, that was kick started by UCSD. All over our state, we have examples of publicly subsidized higher education contributing positively to the state and its economy. Don’t get me wrong I would love it if I paid a lower tax rate, but I understand that in a state of 40mm people, things like roads, education, security, safety, etc gets expensive.
Paying taxes doesn’t entitle you enrollment at the UC of your choice. All the CA residents enrolled at a UC have paid CA taxes as well. (You think the first gen students and their parents don’t pay taxes? Besides, franchise (income) taxes, sales taxes, property taxes and other taxes, I’m sure that every CA resident (and/or their parents) at UC, CSU and CCC have paid significant taxes).
Being a CA resident and tax payer entitles you for opportunity to try and enroll. That’s the deal with world class universities, there are limited spots and getting a spot can be difficult. But the CA system is world class and has contributed significantly to CA’s growth economically, culturally and in many other ways.
Well, that is the result of ballot box budgeting – anti-most-taxes (proposition 13), more prison spending (proposition 184), more K-12 and community college funding (proposition 98).
@Sambar99 …completely agree. Californians have NO IDEA how good they have it compared to the rest of the nation!