@ucbalumnus I agree. I should of said Californians made a big mistake not California. I also feel that we make a big mistake with our legislating through the ballot box. Other states are making the same mistake by putting stuff on the ballot that is best decided by legislators carefully weighing expert advice and making tough decisions. Unfortunately, I only see this trend growing.
If families define “fit,” is it wrong for demographic considerations to be one of the factors they consider? A popular thread on this forum invites people to post things that turned them off from a particular campus, and they vary from location and architecture to “the kids don’t look happy” and “too many hippies.” Why should the racial composition of a campus be any different?
And so, it would make sense that Californians who are turned off by the racial make-up at Cal or UCLA would be further disturbed by the imbalance at the less prestigious UCs. Whites comprise 26% at UCLA, 25.4% at Cal . If those numbers are a turn-off, then it’s easy to see why the less prestigious UCs are definitely out of the question. Riverside is 14% white and Merced is 10.2% white.
Are Californians justified in feeling bitter about being shut out of the UCs? No, because they aren’t shut out. There is capacity throughout the system to accommodate just about anyone who wants to go, including those who need to spend a few years bringing up their GPA at community college first.
Are Californians justified in feeling frustrated that they can’t find “fit” in terms of racial composition on a UC campus? Yes. Everyone is entitled to define fit their way. The UCs don’t have a good fit for families that don’t want an over-representation of Asians – and by extension, an under-representation of whites.
The question then is should the UC system endeavor to be all things to everyone who pays taxes?
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What’s this about? Is it possible that students just want to be around other students who are equally as smart, talented and challenging and supportive of each other? I don’t think it comes down to color.
@preppedparent I’m re-stating a complaint that has been raised throughout this thread by several posters, and I think it’s constructive to discuss it in the open. The wording of the posts have varied, but the gist is that UCs are admitting too many of one particular group and/or immigrants. I recall that’s actually how one poster said it, “too many of one particular group.” Another lamented the lack of diversity at Berkeley as the reason why her son chose a private school, which has a higher percentage of whites.
Personally, I don’t think people who judge a campus by its racial composition are wrong. I do it myself. And doing so doesn’t mean I don’t consider other factors like being around other students who are equally talented, smart and supportive. I think it’s okay to judge a campus on all these factors simultaneously – and still be a good parent/human being.
@PragmaticMom UCI is only 16% white. UCSD is 21% white.
The state’s teenage population is only around 30% white ( maybe less now) so you’re not going to find a lot of public schools with a whiter student body. Probably one in less metropolitan settings, like Slo and chico.
My kids go to a high school that is ~18 percent white. My oldest daughter ended up at a much whiter school and it felt very weird to her and she had a hard time seeing herself there at first. She also very much misses boba. Everyone is uncomfortable in a new dynamic. Normal people adapt and get over it.
For parents and kids who want lots of white kids at a state flagship, let me introduce you to the great states of Vermont, Maine, Montana, South Dakota (etc.).
How can you live in a place as diverse as California and then complain that the state U’s have too many “non-whites”? Move to Vermont- problem solved.
“Are Californians justified in feeling frustrated that they can’t find “fit” in terms of racial composition on a UC campus? Yes.”
- I love how you just appropriate the label "Californians" for white Californians.
- Oh boohoo. You have to live the experience that racial minorities have to live through at the vast majority of colleges in the US. If we can deal with it, you can too.
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/ca-hs-pipeline says that for 2014, California public high school graduates were 28.6% white, a-g course completers were 33.3% white, and applicants to UC were 23.8% white.
Presumably, the white high school and college age people remaining in California should be used to the idea of being a member of a minority group (perhaps unlike the apparent majority of white people found to be worried about that; see http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/1937241-the-us-is-expected-to-eventually-become-majority-non-white.html ).
Also, if 14% or 10% is “too few” of one’s own race/ethnicity, then that means many colleges would be “unsuitable” for many non-white people, even though it is commonly suggested around here that Asian students apply to schools with few Asian students to get a supposed URM preference in admissions.
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“Perhaps, the reason for the plethora of great public colleges in CA is the great number of people in CA. There are more people in CA than in Canada.”
Population alone doesn’t account for the high quality of California’s public colleges, and it didn’t happen by accident. Californians have deliberately planned for and paid for their public college system. The California educational Master Plan was a work of foresighted genius. It’s a shame that its success is being eroded away ever-dwindling financial support from the state legislature - leaving disappointed parents to loosely band into various constituencies, groups, and factions to turn against each other and squabble over the insufficient number of slots that are available.
Both my southern-born, midwest-raised kids wanted campuses where white wasn’t dominant. It was a factor in making up school lists. I see posts on CC that are 10 years old (I exaggerate only a little) about schools that are a good “fit” for Jewish kids. All this is to say, why judge others’ preferences when we all have our own biases?
California schools have a reputation for high concentrations of Asian kids. That might not be a lure for everyone. It was for us. But it could easily be a negative for someone else. All I’m saying is that neither preference is wrong. And, I’m grateful that other posters’ complaints about diversity led me to consider my own bias. I’m grateful we are having a conversation about race without anyone calling out “racist.”
Is it good for the California system as a whole to ignore these preferences?
Is anyone else besides myself HAPPY that their white child is blessed with the experience of being a minority at a UC?
No, he isn’t at a “top-tier” UC, and that’s fine - I’m not making this comment to humble brag. I truly think it’s wonderful that he is getting a real world experience and being introduced to the melting pot that is this great planet. I also think we caucasians can benefit from a dose of reality that we are not and SHOULD NOT think of ourselves as the dominant race. We all need to learn to appreciate each other, and college is a great place to do that.
The passage of proposition 209 in 1996 ensured that California public universities could not consider race or ethnicity in admissions. Exit polls found that it won easily among white voters, but lost among voters of all other racial/ethnic groups. If white students want the California public universities to practice affirmative action for them, they should ask their parents why they voted to prohibit it.
My son (we’re Caucasian) got into 3 UCs but got 0 financial aid (merit or need-based), as opposed to OOS, where he got generous merit aid that eliminated the financial incentive to stay local. You would think that the California financial counselors, more so than out of state, would understand how the salaries that have you living like royalty elsewhere barely scrape by. My son has not made his choice, but I’m pushing for OOS. Maybe he can actually afford to live there, whereas he probably will not in California
My son is Asian, not white…he was adopted from Korea.
Shall I tell you where he goes so you don’t take the chance of running into him??
“Is anyone else besides myself HAPPY that their white child is blessed with the experience of being a minority at a UC?”
An interesting question might be to ask how many people considered race in their college selection process. It’s been interesting reading different threads on this board and realizing that people pick colleges for hugely different reasons, many of which I hadn’t even thought to consider as a factor.
I guess we’re just a very pragmatic, somewhat weird family, but it didn’t occur to any of us to consider race as part of the selection process. But then again, we also didn’t consider a lot of things that people seem to place great emphasis on, like how attractive the campus is, how good the food is, if the campus was hilly. So it’s not that we’re some high-minded people saying race doesn’t matter (although to us it didn’t), it’s more that we’re generally so focused on the academic parts of the college that things like race, beauty and food didn’t really become part of the decision because they wouldn’t influence the academics.
Are we missing something? Is race a big part of most people’s consideration for college? Sounds like it might be in California.
@milee30, I’m a Californian. There are nearly 40 million of us, and if I’m not wrong, we live in the most multiculturally and racially diverse state in the country. Our kids go to school with classmates whose parents come from a large number of different countries. I’m white, but among my closest friends here are Indian-American, Korean-American, and Pakistani-America. I really don’t think race is an issue for many of us here in terms of where our kids go to college. As far as the prevalence of Asians at some of the top UCs, I think most of us see it as a reflection of the tremendous work ethic of many of these kids–and a place where they’re not actually penalized for their race.
And so, it would make sense that Californians who are turned off by the racial make-up at Cal or UCLA would be further disturbed by the imbalance at the less prestigious UCs. Whites comprise 26% at UCLA, 25.4% at Cal . If those numbers are a turn-off, then it’s easy to see why the less prestigious UCs are definitely out of the question. Riverside is 14% white and Merced is 10.2% white.
@PragmaticMom …now that this thread has devolved into race, here are some observations. Fearing diversity is a big factor obviously for a good number after reading everything here. Seems that the majority of people complaining about “race” are Caucasian and not Asian. Personally for myself growing up in “white bread” South Orange County California…attending the diverse campus of UC Riverside and being exposed to different cultures/races (Asian, Hispanic, African American, etc.) shaped me in the most positive way…made me who I am today. There is an article in the LA Times that details how many African Americans will pick UC Riverside over Berkeley since there is NOBODY that looks like them at Berkeley. 14% African American at any UC would be a godsend! As for Asians…my feeling is that any campus that has a high number of Asians will be great academically (they deserve to be at the top UC’s if they have the top GPA’s and test scores) which is a very good thing! The demographics in California will continue to skew less towards Caucasians from those above numbers. For those that prefer a majority Caucasian population and want to live in that unrealistic insular little bubble… there is always Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Oops…that is only a Cal State University though…probably “beneath” most on here desiring a top UC!
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Yes, race is a factor for my kids. AS I said above, their high school is about 18% white. When we visited a couple of small colleges in Oregon, they both looked at me and said “It’s so WHITE here.”
Not everyone can pin down why a particular campus might now feel like home to them, but I bet racial makeup is a factor in the “feeling” kids get when visiting a campus.