There seems to be an entire generation that views themselves as geniuses. And entitled to the same opportunities as actual brilliant students. And when they don’t have the credentials and when the solid evidence screams otherwise they claim they are smarter than their scores, grades and/or accomplishments and they still feel entitled to a golden ticket to the most competitive schools. Is this the Self Esteem Movement debacle paying us back? In the old days students who did poorly in a particular topic were stuck working hard for C’s. Now there are classes at so many different levels that it is the class, not the grade, that differentiates students. So most students have a good match of ability and level of class so the grades tell you very little. The GPA is often figured on “weighted” scores so that A in basic math does become a “B” (but not a C) compared to the A in the most advanced classes but the student doesn’t realize that because the A is on the report card. Maybe that needs to change so students better understand their weaknesses and strengths. As it now stands, we have an entire generation that seems to over-value their ability.
What do you think? Does it seem to you that this generation has a much higher proportion of students thinking only in terms of schools like the Ivy League schools?
Yes. A’s don’t mean mastery in the subject. I know of a number of students who got a 2 on the AP exam following high 90s in the class. Additionally, APs are dumbed down for those who shouldn’t be taking them.
However, one of the good things that college has for you is a humbling factor. Additionally, after doing summer research or being in a competitive program you might get this humbling factor earlier.
Now, I don’t think that we should enact major grade deflation, I just think that we should take into context standardized test grades as well as the individual grades.
To the second part, It doesn’t seem like there are a whole lot of people who are shooting for ivies except for those in the top 10% of my class, in which case it’s completely OK to do this. There is a problem where people prefer prestige over fit but that’s a whole nother problem
Coldsummer123, I think many more students feel they do “fit” in Ivies when they don’t. And they feel they fit in the highest prestigious schools because they think they have the aptitude even if their credentials say otherwise (with the excuse of “I don’t test well”).
Never forget that CC is an extremely unrepresentative sample. The vast majority of public schools kids in our town aren’t even remotely contemplating Ivies. Most that are planning to go to college at all will probably go to the state flagship up the road (which is nothing special as state flagships go). Even among my son’s peers at his very good private school, there’s only a handful of kids in his class that are shooting as high as ivies, and not, I think, unrealistically so.
rayrick, I take it you are not from the (coastal) northeast?
I think kids shooting for Ivies are significantly over-represented on this site. I know literally two kids who applied to any Ivy League school at all.
No, in fact I am from the northeast. My son hangs with a pretty laid-back crowd at his school, so maybe my impressions are skewed, but I don’t think so. The college counseling is also excellent, so I think they keep kids’ expectations realistically in check. The kids who have a shot at Ivies and are attracted to that environment are applying to them, but at least at his school, I don’t get the impression there’s some sort wide-spread culture that thinks that that’s where they rightfully “belong”, and anything less would be an injustice. I don’t know, maybe I’m just clueless – always a possibility.
@lostaccount it’s easier for me to respond if you @ me. In that top group, nobody really “can’t test well”, as they all have pretty high SAT/ACT. There are a few who I think are delusional but overall it really doesn’t seem that bad. Additionally, none of them feel entitled. Many of us accept it’s unlikely we’ll get in and are happy when somebody does. At least, this is my take. I’m sure there are a few that feel entitled, but I’ve yet to meet one.
I also agree with @rayrick in that the guidance counselors do a pretty good job of checking you if you’re shooting too high.
I think colleges like the grade inflation and lack of GPA differentiation between the brilliant and meh students. It gives the schools a fig leaf to admit whomever they want.
My son’s school uses all the letters, and it doesn’t weight. I like it – it’s honest. A B- could be a for a good paper that still has some distance to perfection. (And you still got a 5 on the AP.) BUT many parents feel that this disadvantages their kids when they’re applying to colleges. I have to admit that they may be right. So it’s tough.
I agree with the intent of this thread.
I’ve also been wondering about the ceiling effect that there now is with the testing-being able to super-score and take these tests dozens of times, there is a ceiling effect which means that they are not really very valid any more for their intended purpose. It is correct that at any one sitting, only a small proportion of students get, say 750 and above. But those proportions change markedly when student take the tests multiple times.
I’m a little late, but my high school doesn’t even give a grade boost for honors courses. And I don’t know anyone who thinks they’re entitled to going to the Ivy League. The few people I know who do aim for the Ivy League are EXTREMELY hard workers and are practically killing themselves with a combination of competitions, extracurriculars, and a race to get perfect grades (and grade boosts really aren’t that helpful in my school). College confidential is not a representative of the typical high school. Most people I know are aiming for at best, our state university. Not a single senior this year in the top ten even bothered to apply to an Ivy League. And the inflated grades is actually trying to prevent what you’re talking about. Without them, some people in all regular courses will get all As and then show up in the top ten and make them feel superior and entitled, which isn’t fair to those who took advanced courses but weren’t able to always achieve As. While I’m not discounting anyone in all regular courses, I feel that everyone should take the opportunity to challenge themselves if they can.
Edit: also in my school, you have to have achieved a b or better in the class or you don’t get a grade boost.
Ds attends a private Catholic prep school as did his sister and my kids have never benefitted from grade inflation. DD was .5% from an A, but her final grade was a B. I’m sure this varies from school to school.
^ IMO that’s not grade inflation/deflation. That’s following the syllabus. Grade inflation is when the average grade has risen over time. https://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S40/73/33I92/PU_Grading_Policy_Report_2014_Aug.pdf
Trust me, they still give Cs. S2 brings them home regularly! He got one 52%…lovely.
I would add that not only do we need to bring back the C but we also need to make it okay NOT to have a perfect GPA. When I hear stories from older adults who say they could never get into their alma mater today I feel sad for the youth of today. They don’t have time to be kids and their adolescence is full of stress that doesn’t really need to be there. Just my two cents!
Lowering grades will put even more pressure on the top 10% and will not help anything. Any school that does not do it will gain an advantage.
I believe a huge point of this debate is being ignored. What I got from the post is that kids who are taking these advanced classes who may not be as smart as some of the other kids in those classes are getting the same grades. This is a debate about whether grades measure intelligence and furthermore, if standardized tests do. There’s this catch-22 to standardized tests that I find ridiculous.