<p>any thoughts on taking a gap year? applying for med school in senior year instead of junior. how do md/phd programs view students who take a gap year? (obviously cant know exactly what would be done during the gap year but assume it wouldnt be spend twiddling thumbs) Obviously if applying during senior year the gap year isnt to build the app...but son feels app could be more competitive if he waits until next year.</p>
<p>Most medical students in general take some time off (average: 2-3). This is especially true for MD/PhD students, who often find it helpful to boost their research skills and experiences by working full-time in a lab for a year or two.</p>
<p>Not universal, obviously, but among my MD/PhD friends it’s even more common than MD-only candidates.</p>
<p>bluedevilmike, son has really thought about whether to apply this year or not (and his meeting with advisor for committee process is scheduled) and was just about to pull out of his meeting, when he talked to his research mentor…who strongly stated he should not take a gap year…that md/phd programs wouldnt like it. Not sure as to his reasoning but now son is really confused. This person would also be one of his strongest recommenders, so also worried that if he decided to go ahead with gap year, that going against his advice might not go over well. I think he has good reasons for waiting, but now is concerned it would be the wrong choice.</p>
<p>This is weird to me. It’s SUPER standard – extremely extremely common. Among the MSTPs I know, vast vast majority. What’s the advisor’s reasoning?</p>
<p>I agree it’s important not to burn bridges.</p>
<p>I’ve never heard that having additional research has hurt a MD/PhD application. D2 has talked to a bunch of MD/PhD students (probably at least 6 or 7) at four different programs. All of them took breaks between undergrad and their MD/PhD to extra lab research. </p>
<p>D1’s roomie is MD/PhD and D1 knows all 6 MD/PhDs in her class. Only 1 of the 6 went straight from undergrad to med school. All of the rest either earned an additional degree (a second BS or a MS) or worked full time doing research.</p>
<p>What your son could do is ask for a LOR now, then upload it to Interfolio and hold on to it until he decides to apply. (It’s what D2’s has done with her LORs from her undergrad PI and summer program PIs.)</p>
<p>some of the reasons were things like…it may seem that you are burned out and that isnt what they would want to see in a candidate , will you really proceed if you take a gap year (which son doesnt feel is an issue as he will apply senior year, not take a year off and then apply) This is someone my son really respects so he has to seriously consider his thoughts. However, the mentor also suggested that he ask a few other people, md/phd’s that son has worked with for their thoughts, and son will also try to schedule a meeting with the dean of the mstp program at his school and discuss the issue with her. He knows he can be prepared for committee process by his deadline, has a strong gpa etc and is strong in most areas, a few weaknesses (ie shadowing hours) …but just feels he could be much stronger applying next year, his honors thesis will be done, he will have additional publication/s, can increase his hours shadowing, . As his mentor suggested he speak with others, and if he meets with the dean and gets an “ok” on the idea of a gap year, i think he can go back to his mentor and hope all should be fine for LOR. They have worked together in lab for 2+years, i’m sure they have probably disagreed with each other before. :)</p>
<p>in my top 20 program kids coming straight out of college are in the minority (certainly in my year, the one above mine and two below it). Most pre-med advisors don’t really know much about MSTP admissions because the number of kids they deal with is just so much smaller. For example, at Brown there are a couple hundred MD applicants per year whereas there are <5 MSTPs per year.</p>
<p>thanks for all your thoughts. i will let him know what you all have said. Again, he will also talk to some others involved in the mstp program at his school. This professor has been wonderful during his undergrad so he values his opinion very much. Deadlines are approaching rapidly, so hopefully resolved in next few days.</p>
<p>For example, at Brown there are a couple hundred MD applicants per year whereas there are <5 MSTPs per year.</p>
<p>??</p>
<p>Don’t you mean: at Brown there are a couple hundred MD matriculants per year…</p>
<p>Or am I misunderstanding??</p>
<p>@bdm,
</p>
<p>What do you mean by “2-3”? AAMC reports a 50th percentile at 23 yo, this would imply somewhere around half take a year or more off at some point in their education. (unless the average age of UG grads going to MS differs greatly from the average graduate) </p>
<p>@parent56, personally, I will not delay starting a program of study that already is a very long commitment. Why wait? I’m ready now, and if I am not accepted, then my life will take another path. (probably PhD only) I agree with iwbB that pre-med advisers are not fully informed about the MD/PhD track students, so I’ve sought advice from as many people running these programs as I can, instead. These programs are not looking for junior scientist, they are looking for people to train. Perhaps your S shouldn’t be so concerned.</p>
<p>@m2ck, I think he was talking about his time at Brown as an UG.</p>
<p>plum, means are a little bit higher; you’re right that median is probably the better measure. Mean for women matriculants is 23, and 24 for men. Median is 23 for both.</p>
<p>Additionally, my memory seems to be off, as I thought the numbers were a bit higher still. I’m trying to figure out whether I’m just remembering old data. See, for example, this post here, which I would have agreed with a couple of months ago:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12870222-post17.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12870222-post17.html</a></p>
<hr>
<p>JAMA: “the average age at medical school matriculation is now 24 years.2”</p>
<p>Underlying source is behind a paywall.
<a href=“http://jama.jamanetwork.com/mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1216467[/url]”>http://jama.jamanetwork.com/mobile/article.aspx?articleid=1216467</a></p>
<hr>
<p>In 2008, I reported that the age at matriculation was 24, and that it had been 25 in 2006.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/5659063-post19.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/5659063-post19.html</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Okay, after a couple of revisions: Note that the median doesn’t tell what proportion takes a year or more, except to say that it’s more than half. 51%? 95%? This statistic doesn’t tell us that.</p>
<p>The means being a little higher suggests that there’s some folks who tend to wait a bit longer than that one year, but we don’t really know how many or how long.</p>
<p>MD/PhD programs are notoriously hard to get into. </p>
<p>[url=<a href=“Pre-Professional Advising | Student Affairs”>Pre-Professional Advising | Student Affairs]MD/PHD[/url</a>]</p>
<p>I dont know if these numbers are accurate but it says nationwide they graduate 200 each year. Someone told me there were 1400 MDs coming out each year in texas alone.</p>
<p>I do hear of people applying and getting turned down for PhD part at several places and being interviewed for MD alone. </p>
<p>What would he during the gap year?</p>
<p>Mom,</p>
<p>I mean that the brown pre-med office facilitates around 200 people applying to medical school around the country each year. In contrast, less than 5 people are applying to MD/PhD programs each year. When 98+% of an advisors advisees are going to one type of program, how good do you think they are at advising for a different program?</p>
<p>Plum,
While I agree that you don’t need to delay, if waiting one year will drastically improve your chances at getting into a top school I think it would be foolish to not do so. Many students were on track and did the right things early enough in UG that an extra year won’t matter. I for example would have submitted apps in September with only 2 summers of research if I tried to go straight out. Instead I waited a year and submitted in June with 1 school year more and a senior honors thesis and a first author textbook chapter on my app. There is zero chance I would have gotten into my program without waiting a year.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Ahh…thanks for the clarification. 
I thought I might not be thinking straight.</p>
<p>When 98+% of an advisors advisees are going to one type of program, how good do you think they are at advising for a different program?</p>
<p>True… I can understand that. However, one might expect ivies to be used to having some MD/PhD applicants every year (even if only 5 each year), so they’d “get up to speed” on what’s the best plan of action. :)</p>
<p>*I do hear of people applying and getting turned down for PhD part at several places and being interviewed for MD alone. *</p>
<p>Hopefully others can chime in here. If I remember correctly, some SOMs will only let you apply one way or the other (not both). I’m guessing that some will let you apply to both???</p>
<p>can someone share which SOMs make you firmly pick at the time of your app? </p>
<p>I do think that you can apply MD/PhD at SOMs X, XX, XXX…and apply MD only at Y, YY, and YYY…and apply to both programs at Z, ZZ, and ZZZ.</p>
<p>Hopefully someone can clarify.</p>
<p>There are some schools that will let you apply one way or the other, but which might at their discretion opt to shift you into the MD-only pathway. Not sure if there are any that allow you to pick and choose.</p>
<p>I think you guys wrong about that. AMCAS is the one handling this stuff and I believe you can apply MD/PhD to some programs and MD only to others. Most MD/PhD programs ask on their secondary if you want to be considered for MD only should you be denied MD/PhD. I personally never checked that box and don’t know if it impacts things one way or another.</p>
<p>I also believe that all schools receive your full AMCAS including what schools you applied to for what but I am not sure.</p>
<p>“Most MD/PhD programs ask on their secondary if you want to be considered for MD only should you be denied MD/PhD. I personally never checked that box and don’t know if it impacts things one way or another.”</p>
<p>Brown - are you in a MD/PhD program?</p>
<p>I think you might be right on the flag. I know of at least one candidate this year who applied for MD/PhD mostly but has various outcomes thus far - rejected for MD/PhD, rejected for combined but interviewed for MD, interviewed for combined but admitted to MD while waiting on combined.</p>
<p>@bdm,
</p>
<p>Exactly. So contrary to the “common wisdom” if there is any trend at all in MS matriculant age, it is down. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m not even sure the “more than half” is a given. I have several friends that if they are accepted this cycle will be 25+ and will enter directly after UG, but if I enter MS at 21 it will be because I took a gap year. If we make assumptions about the distributions of these groups then you can draw the (weak) conclusion I made in post #10, but the assumptions may or may not be true. </p>
<p>@iwbB, the decision to wait or not to wait is highly personal. I won’t wait because there is nothing that will “drastically” change the quality of my app.
Alea iacta est, and whatever the result, I can live with it.</p>