<p>Great information! Thanks calmom. Here is my rub, my S is brilliant (so I brag!)
in his interest area, not on his overall GPA. The 3.9 - 4.5 range really needed for the comfort zone to the top five schools on his list ain't happening. The drop off in offering after the top five makes us crazy to write a big check to the schools with the same price as an Ivy. The common app does not look at the individual student, it runs the numbers and prints-out the fat or thin envelope. Not in our favor - the largest number of HS seniors ever, with a male gender ratio tipping the scale. He researched schools in the UK and Canada just to make
a more informed choice.</p>
<p>Beacon,
You are going about this college search all wrong.</p>
<p>If your son's GPA isn't in the "comfort zone" for the schools he is looking at, he isn't going to get in. You can face that reality now, or face it next April - but your son will have better choices in April if he faces that reality now.</p>
<p>First - so you don't take this too personally - an aside. I think my daughter is the most wonderfully brilliant, talented & beautiful young woman on the face of the earth. Her dad and her boyfriend agree. Unfortunately the colleges won't. Unlike your son, she has a great GPA - definitely top 5 in her class. But all of the standardized tests are unfairly rigged against her, so the best she can do is score around 90th percentile range, not good enough for the top schools. Also, for her, math sucks.</p>
<p>Since she is so brilliant and wonderful, she will apply to these schools: </p>
<p>Brown
Barnard
Wellesley
UC Berkeley</p>
<p>Since she will have to submit test scores to get into the colleges she likes, here is the list of the choices she will probably have next spring:</p>
<p>American U.
Goucher
UC Santa Cruz</p>
<p>Now I wouldn't dream of saving a couple of hundred dollars and dashing my darling's hopes by denying her the opportunity to apply to the prestige schools. Who knows, maybe one of those colleges will get lucky and realize what a wonderful addition my multi-faceted daughter will be to their campus. If not, their loss. (Well, mine actually, since they charge so much money to apply - but my daughter would probably spend the money on silly pointy-toed shoes sooner or later anyway)</p>
<p>In the meantime, our college strategy is focused on learning more about the safeties and matches. Which is what your son needs to be doing, too. </p>
<p>If you think that the "drop off in offering" after the top five is too severe, then you are either looking at the wrong colleges, or (more likely) - you haven't yet figured out what to look for. Quality does NOT correspond with prestige. </p>
<p>So I'm going to ask you- what type of school does your son want (large/small; urban/rural; strong athletics/brainy stuff) -- and what is he interested in studying? [I see you posted in May that he wants urban and is interested in architecture or engineering. Has that changed?]</p>
<p>calmom - yes, he is still interested in arch/eng the problem with this major is the studio space. Take Rice for example, they only take 30 students in the department! The ranking system for his HS is so skewed, half the senior class is a 4.0 so a strong B+ student is ranked pretty low. I know colleges compare HS's,
do they look at how he is an individual student, knowing he is from a strong academic HS?
We looked at the colleges with work/study programs, one year he would intern
at a related field to Arch. From my view this is just a way to bring in more students and keep the mill flowing.
I will get realist and check UCB off the list. It is Meca to all arch/eng students, he has a stellar portfolio, but no luck with the common app and 24,000 students applying.
We will keep digging! Thanks</p>
<p>Beacon, At the bottom of this post, I am going to put a link to a thread started last April by the mother of a son who also thought that the drop off after the Ivy schools was too steep. The result? Her son was either waitlisted or rejected from all of the schools on his list. He will not be starting college this month with his peers; instead he will be taking a gap year. This is not the first such story we've heard here on CC, and I doubt it will be the last.</p>
<p>It is very easy to fall into the trap of thinking that only the "prestige" schools are "good enough" for our kids. Everyone obviously wants the "best" for our kids...but the truth is, this is a game that needs to be played with open eyes and a realistic strategy. As Calmom says, it's fine to keep the lottery schools like UCB in the mix --- just make sure your son has fallen in love with other, safer choices as well. </p>
<p>Your problem is doubly compounded by what you already know: there are limited seats in architecture programs and much depends on how his porfolio is perceived at various schools. For that reason alone, it would be wise to cast a wide net and consider programs at all levels of selectivity. I don't know which schools you've considered but since you mentioned architecture, some great choices in this range might include: Syracuse, U of Oregon, U of Michagan, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, Rensselaer Polytech, Kent State, Tulane, Lehigh, Auburn, ARizona State U, Ohio State U, DRexel, Pratt Institute, Virginia Polytechnic Institute, U of Washington, U of Cincinnati, U of Florida, Clemson, Penn State, and the U of Miami. </p>
<p>None of these architecture programs are exactly "easy" to get into, but they may be more realistic choices for your son. </p>
<p>As a bonus, if your son is truly talented, aiming at a few of those schools may result in merit scholarships that lessen the brunt of paying tuition for what you feel is a "lesser" program.</p>
<p>Please read: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=47867%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=47867</a></p>
<p>UCB off the list. It is Meca to all arch/eng students, he has a stellar portfolio, but no luck with the common app and 24,000 students applying. </p>
<br>
<blockquote> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>By the way, just wanted to point out that the UC's do not accept the common application, only their own application.</p>
<p>in Muncie Indiana is also an option......I mean if you are looking for a seat they have them there. Is Cooper Union on the list I cannot recall. Have you considered some time at say St. John's in Annapolis or Santa Fe and then applying to architecture or a PG year at a good Prep Boarding School then making application? I mean you want a top tier school and that may be your best use of time.</p>
<p>When I think about getting in through the 'back door' I think more about other talents he may have to offer, like for example playing the trombone in the band of an ivy if they have one, or being a standout at a sport. or having some guiding light volunteer project.</p>
<p>Actually, Hazmat has a potentially useful idea if only a top tier school will do --- there was a recent article in the Chronicle of Higher Education about kids using gap years to enroll in post-grad prep schools. There was a particular school mentioned in England in the article --- maybe related to Oxford? I can't recall. But apparently this particular school attracts quite a few US students looking for another year to "prove themselves" academically before applying to college.</p>
<p>carolyn, that thread was so depressing. Ok, good timing to step up the search, thank you for the extensive list of schools! I remember getting him into kindergaren in SF, 400 apps for 22 spots half of those were legacy and he beat those odds. I'm back in a better mind set, thank you all for the good ideas. </p>
<p>backhandgrip, Yes, he does play violin and guitar. Started his own business at 15 and it has given him a good business sense including reporting earnings to the IRS. PLays a sport, but does not have a strong list of volunteer efforts. Good idea to check on the EC's. </p>
<p>hazmat, we checked on Copper Union twice this year. Big issue is they are literally tearing down the main building next year to built a new one. The studio was backed full of drawing tables, I can't imagine how they will deal with the loss of space. He will still apply.</p>
<p>Beacon, it is crazy isn't it? My daughter probably isn't in the same league as your son, but she took one look at my frantic face a year ago and immediately announced "I don't want to bother with all this craziness." So, we've been focusing 100% on schools where she has a good to excellent chance of acceptance. Most aren't household names.
But you know what? I've been pleasantly surprised on our visits to over 20 of these less selective schools over the past year to discover that many of them are truly excellent and exciting places of learning.</p>
<p>Just keep this in mind: There are nearly 3,000 4 year colleges and universities in the U.S. About 2,900 of them accept MORE students than they reject. Your situation is a little more complicated because of your son's particular focus, but there must still be reasonably selective architectural programs out there where he stands a good chance of acceptance AND will get a good education. Find those. Love those. Then start adding in the less selective schools.</p>
<p>Beacon, I have no idea of the quality of these programs, but here are the architecture programs listed as strong in the "very selective" and "most selective" categories (vs. "highly selective") in Rugg's Recommendations of the Best Colleges. Some of these I've already mentioned but some may spark other ideas for you and your son. You may also want to send a personal message to a CC member named Cheers, who is a practicing architect and very up on which programs are good but slightly less selective. She can also address what to watch out for in less selective programs:</p>
<p>Arizona State, U of Arizona, Auburn, Boston Architecture Center, California College of Art & Crafts, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, Cal Poly Pomona, Catholic U, U of Cincinnati, Clemson, Temple, Drexel, Drury, Florida Internatiional, U of KEntucky, U of Houston, U of Illinois (Chicago), U of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign), Kansas State, U of Kansas, U of Kentucky, U of Miami, Miami U(Ohio), New Jersey Institute of Technology, REnsselaer Polytech, Montana State, U of Nebraska, North Carolina State, U of Oklahoma, U of Oregon, Pennsylvania State, USC, U of Tennesee, Texas A&M, Uof Texas-Austin, Virginia Polytech, Washington State, U of Washington, U of Arkansas, U of Idaho, Kent State, U of NEvada (Las Vegas), Ohio STate, PRatt Institute, Roger Williams, U of Wisconsin-Milawaukee.</p>
<p>Thanks carolyn - I'll contact Cheers to help with several of the programs not on his list, much appreciated.
As to the gap year... he did come home tonight to "test the waters" with us on traveling throughout Europe next year. One of S's instructors gave his insights on exploring the architectural buildings of world before attacking another five years. (all arch programs are 4+2 or 5) I must admit to traveling the backpack- youth hostile route in Europe for six months and it helped me mature. The world was a very different place. Oil prices, hatred, jealously, and self-sacrifice did not play a major role then, it seems too risky to just let him "explore" without a group. Anyone know of programs abroad that might offer a guided student gap year? I'll google.</p>
<p>Beacon - while I do think it is probably unlikely - there is no reason to drop UC Berkeley if your son is applying to other UC campuses, except for saving $60 - it is a single application for all campuses, where students simply check off which campuses they are interested in. So there is -0- extra time and effort involved - just check a box and write the check. </p>
<p>As noted, its a $60 lottery ticket - but I assume that as a Calfornian your son will apply, and I think that it makes sense for kids to pick their 3 most desired campuses and list them. </p>
<p>Other than that, I knew Carolyn would come through with some great suggestions.</p>
<p>Beacon, your thread is of interest to me because my son is also leaning toward architecture. He is currently half way through a degree in art history/studio art at an LAC and is considering going on to graduate school for a MArch. He spent a month this summer at an introduction to architecture course at Columbia which served to whet his enthusiasm for the field. This was a great program which really helped him understand what was involved in getting a degree in architecture and what the options are for practicing. His LAC doesn't offer architecture per se, but many kids do go on to get architecture degrees and the career placement service is extremely helpful in finding summer internships with alumni/ae architects.</p>
<p>What I wasn't able to tell from your posts is whether your son has definitely decided on taking the plunge into architecture school (with or without a gap year) or if he is still considering engineering or a general liberal arts degree? If he takes the liberal arts route, there are many, many choices in all levels of selectivity. If he wants to go straight into architecture, then it's a more focused list of options. Same goes for engineering. I would think this is the first decision that needs to be made -- or deferred. Threeyears ago when my son was a high school senior, he wasn't able to commit himself to 5 or 6 years of architecture school, so for him getting a liberal arts degree was the best solution, even though it means more school. </p>
<p>I might suggest that your son apply early to UMich. If he gets an application in in September, they'll let him know within a few weeks whether or not he has been admitted. This could serve as a solid "safety" then and could help him calibrate his other choices. As I understand it at Michigan all pre-architecture students are admitted into the school of literature, science and the arts and then transfer into the school of architecture in their junior year. There may be others that fit this category, but for sure UMich has both rolling admissions and a good architecture program.</p>
<p>I just want to address the title of your thread for a minute. Calm before the storm is right! I can just feel myself tensing up. This son for me is very easy to deal with and is cooperative and a hard worker but I have had other children who were more influenced by their friends.Real work is ahead and son has got himself involved in several AP's this year. For us the next 6 weeks will be rough with many applications to go in and the storm starts Monday.</p>
<p>Beacon:</p>
<p>Last fall (and spring) were one long adventure for us. Much as it would have been nice the one long weekend thing did not work out. Over the summer my D added a new trait that would be desired in her schools, so we began the research almost from scratch- our exisiting knowledge helped, but we had to find a new set of schools.</p>
<p>We began in Sept with the rolling admit/merit money safety, app in by October, admitted with $$ by November.</p>
<p>Then during Oct she did the app for the mega-reach EA, what the heck, give it a try school- declined in December.</p>
<p>November was the time for the UCs</p>
<p>Come December she did an application for the LAC on her list, then in January she did an OOS highly ranked school, as an alternate to Berkeley.</p>
<p>In February, she applied to a university in Canada, for the heck of it.</p>
<p>I cracked the whip on timing, mostly by giving her two weeks notice to fit in the details- as a 3 sport athlete- captain of 2 teams and traveling to play on with a team (in a sport that is only club at most schools, so no $$ or admissions picks, but still a tip for being interesting and passionate) plus taking APS, etc., she simply could not do it all and do it well without some guidance, such as, "Hey, better do that UC essay sometime in the next two weeks." or "hey, did you submit that application for XYZ school?"</p>
<p>In a way it felt like the whole thing never ended, we just went from one app to another and threw in several scholarship essays, too! But, it allowed her to focus on each one and I kept giving her two weeks to get things done, so she could fit the extra work into her own time and I did not have to nag.</p>
<p>It is such a stressful time, but try not to communicate your stress to the kiddo. The hardest part is not being familiar with everything and wondering if you've made a mistake along the way. Don't forget your financial aid forms being submitted on time!</p>
<p>As to the culturally-induced mania to get into the very best school or die, try to remember, have your kid create an application packet that truly reflects who they are, then the acceptances and declines should be "right" because your child does not want to be where they wouldn't fit in.</p>
<p>My D applied to a top 5 school on a lark- the coach of the club sport called many times and tried to tip at admissions, her scores were in the ballpark, her grades & schedule were perfect, her letters were awesome & she has national sports team experience- she did not get in- we figured it was not the right place for her & it is their loss. Top 10 schools are a roll of the dice, don't stress it, give it a shot if you are interested, but do not fixate on them as the be-all end-all place to be. Instead focus on finding the match for your child, the place that will nuture him/her into the best they can be, whether that's Princeton or a tier 4 school!</p>
<p>Also, you will not believe how nice it feels to have that rolling admit safety in the bag. My D got into 6 of 7 schools to which she applied, but did not know that until mid-April, it was awesome to walk around with a safety in our pocket- with $$.</p>
<p>momrath - Arch is his stronger side, more of design, he learned CADD with the Autodesk folks in our neck of the woods. This stuff is easy for their generation who were born with a computer in the delivery room. Yes, he has made the decision to jump right into a program for the full 5 years, or start with the gap. I think your son got the bug from his summer experience which is fantastic. Mine also did a month long arch study and added the insight of living in a dorm with a roommate. I now have it down what not to make him bring to college.
His HS offers a four year arch/eng program with AIA student competitons in the senior yr. We interviewed with several schools during the summer, one in Boston, which will remain nameless, looked at his transcript and outline for arch classes and said," do you really know all this stuff? We can't just put you in an advanced class!" Not a top school, S said he did not see himself there, and we took it off the list.</p>
<p>somemom, good advice - I making your quote into a bumper sticker!</p>
<p>"you will not believe how nice it feels to have that rolling admit safety in the bag"</p>
<p>I'll second that rolling safety! Son waited for acceptance into 8 music programs into April and 7 university/Lac programs (in the end they all came through and it was too much!). But his was a double application process. Thankfully from December, he had one acceptance "in the bag" due to his applying to one rolling admissions school. No matter how talented kids seem, they may lose a bit of their confidence during the long wait.</p>