<p>There's kind of an amusing point related to what UCLAri said. The bigger a prof is, the more likely it tends to be that he or she insists on a first-name basis. Basically, if you have a Nobel, everyone knows you do, and they're not going to think less of you by calling you Bob. On the other hand, people who are insecure tend to cling to the titles. So that's another reason why titles are not in common use at Caltech -- not that many insecure people get to be professors here.</p>
<p>Never expected my father's simple message would stir up such a big fuss. What a crowd! </p>
<p>I never disputed the view that Stephen Hawking couldn't care less if he was referred to as 'Professor' or 'hi'. Somehow the argument got distorted to if he was offended in the lecture. The issue my 'angry' father wants to bring out is: as a Caltech member attending a public event, do act like a educated person with respectfulness. Obliging to calling one's first name or 'dude', if he/she so prefers, is another way of showing your respect too. Joe's message #12 says it well. I suppose maturity does count. I frequently get yelled at: "Grow up, son" He is not absolutely lunatic after all! For alleya's story #15, I have no doubt about its creditability. Nevertheless, she would have to agree we couldn't have safer flights by merely having two pilots of the same rank in the cockpit. Still the story fell short to validate Ben Golub's 'tone' theory. I stand by what I said without repeating the term Ben Golub claims he is fine with. </p>
<p>My apology to lizzardfire. There was no insult whatsoever. I simply can't stand seeing you relegating yourself from a new-recruit bubbling with initiatives (impressed with you taking the lead to build the 2010 home page) to a Ben Golub II regurgitating what you were fed before. Rice likes/needs her job. She has to echo whatever Bush says. You don't. After two terms, is everything you see and hear in Caltech 100% consistent with what you were told before? Be yourself. Have some good sleep tonight and enjoy your E&M tomorrow. </p>
<p>Appreciate those who provided me with information on Confucius and other things for further exploration. For those sarcastic ones telling me I should attend MIT instead; quit while I'm less far behind; and where Wanda Trossler is, etc. I have to steal my father's line: "Grow up guys, you are not doing any good to your school"</p>
<p>Delighted to read UCLAri's # 20 and Ben Golub's #21. In most cases, this is not a reflection of one's virtue, but an outcome of a predictable phenomenon rather: You can afford modesty when your position is unchallengeable.</p>
<p>Take care everyone.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Nevertheless, she would have to agree we couldn't have safer flights by merely having two pilots of the same rank in the cockpit. Still the story fell short to validate Ben Golub's 'tone' theory.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What? I don't understand. </p>
<p>We could have safer flights by having a mechanism so that the person with lower rank can forcefully convey messages to the person of higher rank, which was apparently not done here. Obviously there has to be a person whose command is final, especially in a cockpit, but that doesn't mean that the lower-ranked person should speak like a schoolchild. As we see in this case, this leads to his (crucial) words getting less weight, and that can sometimes be disastrous. </p>
<p>The point is simply that the way we speak and the tone (quite literally -- the pitches in the voice) matters a lot for determining how information flows, and sometimes whether it flows at all. There are reams of academic research on this, as alleya said, and if you want references, just ask us. Caltech (along with a lot of other small, nimble organizations) seems to have realized this long before the linguists by having an environment not without authority, but without superfluous deference. Unsurprisingly, the exchange of ideas at places like Caltech, early Google, etc., is much freer than in at the formal, structured, respectful counterparts (compare Caltech vs. Harvard; Google vs. IBM).</p>
<p>If you think this story, which makes falsifiable (i.e. checkable) claims backed up by scientific experiments is wrong, please provide evidence to that effect. Repeating that you "stand by what you said" doesn't convince anyone.</p>
<h2>" For those sarcastic ones telling me I should attend MIT instead; quit while I'm less far behind; and where Wanda Trossler is, etc. I have to steal my father's line: "Grow up guys, you are not doing any good to your school""</h2>
<p>I was just joking...and besides, I must confess that I went to MIT, not CalTech.</p>
<p>And BTW, if you are planning to go to CalTech, you should have caught the "Wanda Trossler School of Beauty" reference ("Real Genius" w/Val Kilmer).</p>
<p>I think the point that people are trying to argue here is that, as Caltech students, we are not ashamed of the way these people presented themselves. There's no reason that being a "member of Caltech" raises you to some level of required formality. In the end, these people represented Caltech well and showed the kind of people that we are and are proud of as portrayed by the comments of Ben Golub, alleya, etc.</p>
<p>Seriously, people do not interact with each other at top universities like the people from the snobby prep school in Dead Poet's Society. And certainly the culture in the science departments is not like that at all. </p>
<p>I've been at many academic seminars, and people typically do not even use the speaker's name when asking the question; they just go ahead and ask the question when the speaker acknowledges them. What the CalTech students was not at all inappropriate and no one would even notice it. </p>
<p>If you address a professor you are not doing research for (i.e., a class or something), I would address them as Professor so-and-so. If you are doing research for a professor, sometimes people just ask the professor right at the beginning what he/she wants to be called. They will almost always reply that you should call them by their first name. Surprisingly, the formality expected in high school is a lot more than in undergrad and grad school.</p>
<p>Another thing is that some of these physics guys have a real disdain for formality and snobbishness. Read "Surely you're joking, Mr. Feynman!" and you'll see what I mean.</p>
<p>Of course Caltech is not 100% consistent with what I was told. But do I love it as much as I thought I would? Even more! I feel no obligation to agree with Ben, but when I do agree with him, I'm not going to apologize for doing so.</p>
<p>By the way, no E&M today. I'd normally have recitation, but it's SFC (Caltech's Student Faculty Conference :) )</p>
<p>This whole exchange is so amusing.</p>
<p>I remember teaching a graduate seminar as a young professor and noting that students shouldn't call me Dr. NQO and instead call me First Name. One foreign student looked uncomfortable and asked if there were another name he/she could use. I said Lord and Master NQO was fine but a bit cumbersome. Everyone laughed and the seminar went swimmingly.</p>
<p>To Ben Golub #23: You just disqualified me! I don't think I can handle all those heavy-sounding experiments. Guys would love to see me deck. Hope the fair amount of common sense left can save me. I fully agree with you that 'tone' does have significant impact on the interpretation of verbal message. </p>
<p>Your ?but that doesn't mean that the lower-ranked person should speak like a schoolchild" is perfectly correct. Whoever does that has no one to blame but him/herself. The absurdity is, you feel as you were a schoolchild, or the professor had just been crowned, either way, if you don?t call him by his first name. That is your problem! The appalling part is you are making a big deal of it by asserting calling a Professor 'Professor' would keep one from "getting to the heart of the matter", rendering this behavior of social norm worthless in Caltech. I am sorry I can't think of a better term to depict your assertion other than the one I have been using in this thread. </p>
<p>You don?t salute authority, neither do I. But grafting the so-called first-name-basis onto Caltech population is a tyrannous act, a ritual in its own right. Calling the professors by their first names has been hyped as a pride, a symbol of identity. Can?t think of anything more plastic and soulless! Analogous to Joe's example pertaining to Professor David Baltimore, if you feel more comfortable saying: "Hi, Jean-Lou, what's up?" to get to the heart of the matter, proceed. That is your right, your taste and your style, which I'll fight to death to protect if needed in this country. But please refrain from propagandizing your 'tone' theory, or hypothesis, to be exact at this point. To gag me by demanding evidence is an easy shot. What made Einstein a great high school calculus coach was simply he knew the stuff! (Don't recall hearing 'Albert' from the Physics Professors in Stephen Hawking's lecture) Take it as a challenge to teach me, and whoever interested in, the relevancy between your hypothesis and those proven theories. I sincerely hope you will eventually be able to turn what you ?like? into a theory. Until then, I am not convinced.</p>
<p>To collegealum314 #26: I posted a question about Chem. Eng. major a few weeks back. Got buried quick. Your view? My go east option is still alive. Thanks. </p>
<p>To lizzardfire #27: Glad to hear you love the place. Be yourself. Wish you all the best.</p>
<p>Biggs,
its been fun reading this thread. And what I keep thinking of is a picture I saw somewhere on the Caltech website of Stephen Hawking attending the cooking class & the stories I've heard about Caltech students "running into" Stephen Hawking as he crosses campus from time to time. If I'd been in that cooking class with him or if he'd run me off a path at Caltech, I'd probably say "hi" to him too.
Find the school thats the right fit for you. I'm glad you have an option in the east.</p>
<p>biggs,</p>
<p>I think this how to salute authority things is being blow out of proportion. Just do whatever make you feel comfortable. I am an older alum and also have S1 and D1 currently in graduate school there, with D2 coming as a freshman. S1 and D1 (and myself) tend to be more old fasion in this regard. A professor actually suggested my D1 to ask her brother to greet him on first name. But they tend to be more comfortable with formal salute until they get to know professor better and until professor insist on it. There will be time to adjust and either way is not a big deal.</p>
<p>I believe Ben is passionate about Caltech being a place that authority of idea trump idea of authority. It is a small place, you run into president, Nobel laureates so often that distance tend to diminished.</p>
<p>As to Chemical Engineering at Caltech, it is most exciting. Please look up the website <a href="http://www.cce.caltech.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.cce.caltech.edu/</a></p>
<p>I'm not surprised your ChemE questions were not really answered extensively. There aren't that many ChemE's on CC (or in general, haha). I only know of one, and she is a frosh. If you have more questions I am friends with three other ChemEs (two juniors and a smore) and I can certainly give you their contact info.</p>