<p>my son is now down to caltech vs. chicago as choices--he has been studying number theory and wants to be a math prof</p>
<p>Either one could work. they are two very different schools.
It would be helpful if he could visit.
One thing to pay attention to - core requirements at both schools.
Chicago is famous for its core curriculum. The students who choose Chicago tend to love it.
Caltech has some extensive science requirements, including, I believe , 5 semesters of Physics. Not a bad thing in itself, but you better know what you are getting into…</p>
<p>cal tech hands down for the future math prof.</p>
<p>NON-applied math: Chicago for breadth, depth of offerings. 1,000 undergrads (Caltech) can be limiting. And Chicago would be way more fun. :)</p>
<p>Only 1,000 undergrads, but also 1,500 grads as well as all of the classes that come along with that. ;)</p>
<p>Well I am a Chicago grad but I am not recommending because of that. I think UChicago is a better place for a future math professor because of the core. Professors do not only do math and the extra writing you get at a place like Chicago will come in very handy during dissertation writing time. I am not sure why a math major would need 5 physics courses and no that UChicago wouldn’t require that. It does require both physical and life sciences but not specifically physics and not five courses for a math major. </p>
<p>Otherwise, I think the two colleges have a different personality and that may be the best way to choose. UChicago obviously has plenty of non science geeks. THere is also a much more equal gender division at UChicago. There is also a huge climate difference. ALl these factors should be considered.</p>
<p>Caltech vs. Chicago Core Curriculum</p>
<p>Humanities/Social Science
Chicago - 9 Quarters
Caltech - 12 Quarters</p>
<p>Natural Science/Mathematics
Chicago - 6 Quarters
Caltech - 15 Quarters</p>
<p>Physical Education
Chicago - 3 Quarters OR test out + swimming test
Caltech - 9 units</p>
<p>Other
Chicago - Foreign Language Proficiency
Caltech - 2 Quarters Scientific Writing</p>
<p>Chicago’s FL proficiency is met by scoring a 3 on an AP Foreign Language exam.</p>
<p>My math major applied to both, but it was hands-down Chicago, in significant part because he wanted the Core. He sat in on a 9 am Philosophy class at Caltech and found it was “too mathy” for his tastes. (This is a kid who adores math AND philosophy.) Has been very happy with his Chicago math classes and the many opportunities that have presented themselves. Excellent math department advising. Both schools are both very self-selective.</p>
<p>We know someone else who went to Caltech for math and is quite happy.</p>
<p>The Chicago math major requires seven science courses within the Physical Sciences Division, which includes CS, Stat, Physics, Chem and Geology (?). S is taking his seven courses in CS, which accomplishes the functional equivalent of a minor in CS without having to meet minor course distribution requirements. Getting a 5 on both AP Physics C Mech and E&M will exempt one from the physical sciences Core requirement (12100-12200-12300).</p>
<p>Re: size vs course offerings:
I was an undergrad at Caltech and am a grad student (in pure math) in Chicago.
Despite the fact that the math department at Chicago is much bigger, in my experience there are more advanced courses offered at Caltech, (in large part because postdocs there teach special topics classes instead of teaching Calculus). In addition, Caltech doesn’t restrict the number of classes students take, and does not at all enforce prerequisites, allowing some people to take 4+ math classes every term, in any order they wish (whether thats a good idea is up to you). At Chicago there is both more structure and more red tape.</p>
<p>Caltech is an incredible place to study and thrive in pure mathematics and the natural sciences. Do a quick look at who teaches there, at the publications, and at the faculty-student dynamics. Undergrad students have access to some of the most talented mathematicians and scientists on the planet.</p>
<p>So the issue in making the decision – both to go to Caltech and (more important) to study math with the intention of an eventual PhD and a career in math research – is whether the student is up to the challenge. Pure mathematics is an incredibly competitive field. To succeed as a researcher requires deep dedication, talent and commitment.</p>
<p>There are many would-be-mathematicians who eventually leave the academic world to work on complex financial products, to do computer science, and the like. If there’s a reasonable chance that this is where someone’s career will end up, then Caltech (and probably UChicage) are not good choices. A college with a more diverse curriculum would work better.</p>
<p>Aside from the math - the cultures of the schools are so different. I adore Caltech, but it is quirky, very nerdy (in a math and science way not a general way), has a pretty skewed M/F ratio, and is less diverse overall. It also has pranks, senior ditch day, an interesting house assignment system (somewhat like rushing for frats). Both are on the outskirts of big cities, but Caltech has access to beach, dessert and mountains. </p>
<p>I won’t speak to the math as others know those issues much better.</p>
<p>Personally, I would recommend making this decision based on where your son would rather spend the next four years of his life. Both schools offer good math programs, though the curriculum differs. As campus communities though, they are vastly different. Frankly, I couldn’t take the weather in Chicago, but I’m speaking as a Californian.</p>
<p>I have an uncle (geology) and a brother (physics) who attended Caltech (and an uncle who taught there). Mathmom captures the flavor of life there pretty well. It is also extremely intensive. But it has Pasadena itself to “escape” the campus to; Pasadena is not at all a bad burg to live in.</p>
<p>I have a son who attended Chicago (economics) (and I taught there as a visiting prof one semester many years ago). It is also very intensive but not as intensive as Caltech. A virtue over Caltech is that if your son decides to change majors, he would have a much wider range of options at Chicago than at Caltech. And the general campus life offers a far greater variety of intellectual fare.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t choose either strictly for the weather, but it could reasonably be a deciding factor.</p>
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<p>I’ve actually heard for this latest year the admissions stats are something like 55/45 for male/female. They’re really trying to work on that image problem.</p>
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<p>Chicago has a beach practically on campus:</p>
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<p>Granted, the waves aren’t as nice as at Santa Monica or Malibu, and it’s not so pleasant to swim there during much of the school year. (But Chicago’s midwinter Kuvia/Kangeiko festival culminates in an early morning dip there.) </p>
<p>I have never heard that there is any problem with access to dessert at Chicago. If anything, travelling around the city and observing its inhabitants convinces me that dessert is perhaps over-available there.</p>
<p>Mountains are definitely an issue, though.</p>
<p>Anyway, with or without grad students, the math community at Chicago is at least as large, and probably larger, than that at Caltech. Counting double majors, there are 150-200 math majors per class, one of the largest collections anywhere, plus another 40-50 grad students. And that’s straight-up math, not “applied”, or statistics, or finance people in the business school. I would think a pertinent question would be whether or not you wanted to be around a substantial number of people who were NOT primarily interested in math or hard science.</p>
<p>For a pure math grounding, Caltech is a lot more rigorous. If you son is sure Math is where he wants to be, Caltech is a great place to get the basic foundation and he can go Chicago or anywhere else for graduate school. Given that he is going for graduate studies, I would go with Caltech. However, if you son is ambivalent or may want to get a broader exposure to other areas, then Chicago is the way to go.</p>
<p>I’m glad to hear the Caltech m/f ratio is improving. My son didn’t get accepted but one of his best female friends did. 
Personally I think the Pacific is too cold to make pleasant swimming, but we had a housemate who used to bring us back fish and abalone that he caught scuba diving. There’s also terrific hiking in the Sierras. I liked Pasadena much better than I expected to. If you haven’t seen Joshua Tree’s dessert in bloom in the spring you should go!</p>
<p>I think Chicago is terrific too, but I don’t know it as well. For years we made a yearly trip for Thanksgiving to visit family though. Great museums anyway!</p>
<p>You didn’t get the joke, mathmom. The Joshua Tree blooming dessert? Is that anything like the onion at Outback Steakhouse?</p>
<p>But the Joshua Tree desert in spring is probably a sight to see.</p>
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<p>What could possibly be the predicate for this statement? I’m not saying it’s a lot LESS rigorous – it’s kind of hard to tell because Caltech doesn’t seem to like actual course descriptions – but it’s difficult to believe that it’s really a lot MORE rigorous. It does involve more requirements than Chicago, but that seems mainly a function of Caltech dividing its workload into more, possibly smaller pieces.</p>
<p>Ah! I do that misspelling all the time. I always have to say to myself “Desserts is stressed spelled backwards” to remember which one has two s’s.</p>
<p>etondad,</p>
<p>I cannot comment on the difference between the two options your son has because I am not familiar with the University of Chicago. However, as the parent of a Caltech graduate I strongly second the suggestions not to base the decision on the qualities of the math program alone.</p>
<p>From what I saw when my son was in Pasadena, Caltech is an amazing place and, for the right kind of student, it probably cannot be matched. However, Caltech can be a pretty tough place even for students that fit well. It seems to me there is a lot less room for error in the decision.</p>