And apologies, must disagree again, CF. While there are no guarantees, it is strongly recommended that a student with notable LDs and/or other disabilities meet with the school’s disability office to see what they offer, as an important piece of information when deciding if that school sis a good fit for them. This is one key piece of that puzzle… There are great ranges of services from school to school, and a family can often get a good feel after such a meeting if any particular school is likely to work with them or not. And, as you know , many ASD students can be rigid. If they go into a building and it smells weird or the color bothers them or what have you, even if the school offers great accommodations, that student may be unwilling to set foot back in that building ever again. This is all very important data.
This makes total sense. I was one of the ones that originally said let the student advocate for herself. But I hear what everyone is saying, and I do sympathize.
I have a question that I hope will be received for what it is, genuine curiousness. I support the idea of accommodations for disabled students, and I think this student has every right to her accommodations so that she has the best odds of succeeding in school. But here is my question: What is the next step after graduation? Is the best course of action to look for a job that is inherently suited for individuals with NVLD, ADHD, and anxiety? Or does the ADA require employers to make accommodations for employees with learning disabilities? I am not asking in the vein of she-better-learn-now-so-that-she-can-survivie-in-the-real-world, as I am sure the OP comes across at times. I am interested in what happens to learning-disabled individuals in the workplace and how does our society help them to be successful. In other words, how can they best be successful in “launching”?
Could not disagree with @“Cardinal Fang” more. My S has learning disabilities and we met with the Office of Disabilities at all four final schools he was considering. My S did take the lead in the meetings. He showed his documentation, discussed his accommodations, and talked with the representative about how his needs could me be met at the school. My H and/or I were in the meeting as well (chimed in only minimally) and we felt welcome. These meetings were exceedingly helpful and did, in fact, eliminate one school from consideration (he got time and a half and one school’s testing room was located right next to a noisy boiler!). And once he began college, the Office of Disabilities did everything they said they would, and more.
In addition, my S actually does have a non-verbal learning disability and this absolutely does not put him on the autism spectrum. They are completely and totally different issues. A non-verbal learning disability is characterized by higher verbal skills and weaker motor, visual-spatial and social skills. Getting this diagnosis as a young child was life altering my S as well as my H and myself. My H and I were finally able to understand why some seemingly simple things were so difficult for him (ex. drawing, puzzles, ball sports) while other things came relatively easily (reading, math). Having this diagnosis helped us to work on his weaknesses and play to his strengths as he grew up. And over time he was also able to understand is issues and advocate for himself when need be… He found a career that is well suited to his strengths and is now a very successful adult (great job, lots of friends, apartment in Manhattan etc.). And there are no accommodations in the workplace which is why it was important that my S find a profession tailored his strengths.
Can the parent go,with the child to the disability office? Seems like this would be the best of both worlds. The person in the office could interact with the student and the parent could be there to advocate as well.
I do think disability offices prefer to work with the students. But in this case, perhaps the parent and student should go together.
My son was diagnosed with NVLD. I read up on the diagnosis (and by the way, there’s not a lot online, or at least there wasn’t ten years ago) and he certainly fit the criteria, higher verbal skills and weaker motor, visual-spatial, organizational and social skills. It turns out, though, that people with that profile also fit the Aspergers diagnosis.
When we went back to the psychologists to get an updated workup before he went away to college the first time, he was diagnosed with Aspergers, and the psychologists who worked with told me that NVLD is a diagnosis that’s given when the professional doesn’t want to diagnose Aspergers. I’m furious that we wasted years with the NVLD diagnosis when we should have faced up to the fact that he is on the autism spectrum.
NVLD is not in the DSM. It’s little known. I believe the OP will be better off if she presents a diagnosis to the disabilities office that they’ve heard of.
As to whether it’s worthwhile to work with a disabilities office before applying, yeah, maybe, but be prepared for them to make promises that they don’t live up to. Of course, they do that after the student matriculates, too.
Brantly, parents can worry about the next step after college graduation for their kid on the spectrum if they are lucky enough to get to that point. Before that, they have enough on their plate worrying how the student will get to college graduation.
We had a very different experience with his NVLD diagnosis. Our neropsych clearly explained to us what it was which helped a great deal in figuring out a helpful therapy program. My S does not have Asperger’s and a NVLD diagnosis is not an Asperger’s Diagnosis although apparently there is overlap and it is not unusual for people do have both conditions…
Found this online “Studies indicate that most children who meet the criteria for Asperger’s also meet the criteria for NVLD. But the opposite of that doesn’t appear to be true. Many children with NVLD don’t meet the criteria for Asperger’s. This is in part because Asperger’s tends to involve more severe social skills issues than NVLD.”
https://www.understood.org/en/learning-attention-issues/child-learning-disabilities/nonverbal-learning-disabilities/difference-between-nonverbal-learning-disabilities-and-aspergers-syndrome
And I certainly agree it is one step at a time for kids like my S, but I though it might be encouraging to share a successful outcome.
But that’s simply not true, CF, even if that one psychologist said so. Glad you got an accurate diagnosis, but the discussion about the overlap between NLD and ASD has been ongoing amongst neuropsychologists for years. Byron Rourke, before his death, was revamping his theory on NLD. Knew him personally. Nice guy. Some psychologists may not be as understanding of the nuanced differences in symptomatology, and again, you get 5 psychologists in a room, you will get 10 opinions. Again, many, if not most Aspergers folks will have NLD, but not all NLD folks will meet criteria for Aspergers/ASD.
The DSM is not the be all-end all, and now most folks are using the ICD-10 anyway.
Sorry I fell out of the conversation yesterday. I want to thank all of you who have taken the time to give me your thoughts on all of this. A big hug to those who sent private mesages to share their stories with me.
Some of you asked why my daughter left UCSC. It didn’t have any thing to do with the school particularly, it was more for reason of economics. UCSC is 450 miles away from where we live. My husband hasn’t had a regular job in 6 years and puts food on the table by doing handyman work when he can find it. Moving our daughter back and forth to UCSC was a huge financial strain on us we had to rent a car, the gas, the food and the hotel room. Santa Cruz is a beach town and hotels are super expensive. Even the places with carpet you are too afraid to walk bare-footed on would cost us $175 or more a night. Each trip to get her moved in and moved back home cost over $1000. It just seemed so ridiculous given our current financial situation. Her new campus just made more sense as it is only 40 miles from our home.
Don’t get me wrong: I am SOOO thankful she had the time away from home at UCSC. She grew in ways I could have never imagined. Her social anxiety has kept her imprisoned for years socially and her NVLD made other kids think she was awkward. But she was dead set on going to Santa Cruz because she liked the vibe of the campus. As a mom it scared the cr@p out of me!! But in retrospect, I can’t imagine a better 2 years spent. She gets on the bus herself now, eats in restaurants by herself and really just learned to live without mom. I didn’t like taking her out of the place where she was thriving, it killed me to be honest, but we simply couldn’t afford it anymore.
Others have asked why we didn’t look more into the disability office of her new campus before we SIRd. Like I said previously, as soon as my daughter decided which UC campus she wanted to transfer to, I sent a lengthy email to the director of that campus disability office explaining my daughter’s situation. It took her 2 weeks to get back to me and when she did, it contained one line stating she will make a decision when she had documentation on my daughter’s circumstances. All of her emails have been short and curt with little to no info at all…and thats ONLY if she answers them . Nine times out of ten she doesn’t respond at all…to me OR my daughter. I called the wonderful people at UCSC and they said they would not only fax daughter’s info over to the director, but they’d call her as well and try to explain the situation. Two weeks later my daughter gets an email that only says “Based on our finding you will only quailify for a double unless you present further documentation” Not how are you? Or welcome to UC blah-blah. Nothing. Just one line stating her accommodation.
By the time all this went down it was only a couple of days before the SIR deadline, my husband and I were losing our house trying to do all the moving ourselves with no where to go and I told her to just go ahead and SIR and we’d figure out later. Things had always gone so smoothly at UCSC and everyone had been so kind, I couldn’t imagine we would face the problems we face now. There is one difference between the old campus and the new, which might perhaps explain the lack of sympathy at the new place: everyone in the disability office at UCSC has some sort of degree in psychology. Not so for the employees at daughter’s new school.
Interesting, jym. I had thought that NLD is a kind of Aspergers, but you’re saying that Aspergers is (more or less) a kind of NLD. And then Aspergers is always a kind of autism, but NLD is not necessarily a kind of autism? So NLD then is on the penumbra of autism; some people with NLD (certainly the ones with Aspergers, and maybe others) are on the autism spectrum, but some other people with NLD are not on the autism spectrum?
Hmm. Well, lines have to be drawn, even though in the real world it’s not always obvious on the margin that this person is on the spectrum, whereas that person, who has the same symptoms but not, quite, as severe, is not on the spectrum.
No, NLD is not a form of autism. They are two separate issues that do occur together in a number of people. It seems that people with Asperger’s typically also have NLD. However, the opposite is not true. Many people, including my S, have NLD without being anywhere on the autistic/Asperger’s spectrum.
Do students with these types of disabilities learn ways of coping with them, or is it 100% a matter of others learning to accommodate?
My S who has NVLD was greatly helped by therapy and by maturity. And as he grew he was more able to choose things (ex. his college classes and career) which play to his strengths and and stay away as much as possible from his weak areas. He is now a very successful young adult with a great career, an apartment in NYC, and lots of friends. He has had no accommodations in the working world.
Oh the world bends over backward to accommodate shy, anxious, introverted kids and help them forward. Always.
The link happy1 posted in post 26 provides a nice summary of the overlapping symptoms vs differences in NLD vs ASD., CF. nldonline, http://www.nldline.com/ , ldonline http://www.ldonline.org/indepth/nonverbal and nldontheweb (looks like thier site is currently down, though) provide useful information HEre is a good list of articles explaining the differences between NLD and Aspergers http://www.nldline.com/as_vs_nld.htm
The syndrome isnt that scarcely known.
This might help: If you think of autism on a continuum, with the severely autistic folks on one end and the high functiong autistic folks on the other, then add there the aspergers folks (aspergers is not considered by most to be the same as HFA in the classic sense, as the traditional HFA folks had language delays, whereas the Aspies did not), but with the change in DSM/ICD diagnoses this is blurred now. But I digress. So at the end with the HFA --> Aspergers folks, draw a circle over the end with the aspie folks. Inside that circle are the NLD folks… Some with NLD will also havve Aspergers, some will not. Does this help?
OP, what have you suggested as a fix for the issue? I know you want a single, but are there any other possibilities? You’ve said she can’t live off campus. Someone suggested that she/you request another roommate with same issues or needs. Is there a drug free/quiet hours dorm? Is there an all female dorm? Is there a suite style where each person has a private bedroom but share the living space/bathroom/kitchenette?
My friend’s daughter is diagnosed with NLD and Asperger’s. She required a single, but she wanted to be in a ‘living community’ for her major, and the space assigned was only for doubles. She had to make a choice. Well, there were singles near this living community so that worked but was not perfect. One of her issues is social, but living alone doesn’t help that issue. Some people wanted to do projects after 7 pm, and she couldn’t meet at that time. Then some teachers required those students who wanted to take notes by laptop to sit in the front row. Lots of problems, lots of choices for the one asking for accommodations as the offered accommodations aren’t always perfect.
If the disabilities office is not helping, go directly to the office of housing. Ask what options are available. School’s been in session for a few weeks, so surely some kids have packed up and gone home. You need to find one sympathetic ear in the housing office.
It would seem that we are expected to. Meanwhile the rest of us are never shy, anxious, or introverted about anything. We just has to suck it up.
you are dealing with a bureaucrat! you would think or would like to think that a person in that department cares about people with disabilities. that is mistake many people make(being naive) perhaps staying at the original school is a better choice? the only thing you can do is get a lawyer to send a nasty letter (schools get them all the time and they get tossed in a big pile, and a state school even forced to pay in a lawsuit…if it went that far pays with taxpayer money so they could care less) also governments often exempt themselves from rules and laws that apply to private business and people. so you may have no standing with a state school. why not stick with or go back to the original school if she is/was well adjusted there?
^^^^In my experience, and I’m sure there are exceptions, the people working in the Disabilities Offices genuinely do care about helping the kids to succeed. I don’t think a lawyer letter would help the OP. IMO the problem is that the recommendation isn’t forceful enough – the requested accommodation must be shown to be a necessity that is required to allow the student to function at the university – currently it appears to recommend an accommodation that would be helpful… Lawyers won’t help under these circumstances and might prove to be a negative force in the process.