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^ Now you are talking
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<p>Haha. I'm not seriously advocating any of the steps I described. There's more to life than sending your kids to a fancy private college.</p>
<p>lskinner, I think Mizo has the better plan. According to her post, she simply saved $150 per month -- I used an online calculator and figured out that over 18 years, with a 5% rate of return, that would result in more than $50K in college savings -- or $12.5K annually to supplement whatever the family's EFC would be. </p>
<p>Let's say that rather than starting with a figure of $150, the family simply decides to set aside 5% of their monthly income in a college savings account, and lets also say that this family is earning $48K annually to start with -- or $4000 a month -- 5% of $4000 is $200 a month. Now, with a 5% rate of return, that family has almost $70K when the kid is age 18 -- and as we all know, a family earning $48K will also qualify for plenty of need based aid. </p>
<p>I think the 5% plan shows that it is quite reasonable and doesn't necessarily entail a huge sacrifice -- if the family sticks to that percentage as income goes up, then they will essentially be protecting themselves against their diminishing ability to qualify for need based aid. And of course, when money is being saved over time, there are all sorts of long-term investment vehicles that promise a better return. </p>
<p>Obviously, that is all easier said than done, and it is very easy in hindsight to figure out that is what should have been done all along..... but I definitely commend Mizo for doing things right in the first place. Despite all the whining about the cost of college for the "middle class", I think most of us struggling with college costs are guilty of simply not having a good savings plan and sticking to it from the outset. It really doesn't mean we would have to have given up on ballet lessons or a mortgage -- it would have taken most of us only a moderate level of belt-tightening to make do with 95% of our money.</p>
<p>I'm going to have to meet my Yale EFC through loans (that I hope to phase out as I get work, hopefully over the summer as well). My parents lost all their savings in a civil war, and only nudged themselves into the middle-class bracket very recently: the $9300 I'm in for, in addition to the $35000 I'm already in debt with for the two previous years I've been in the states, consequently ends up money I'd rather take out in personal loans than burden my parents with. Is it fair? I don't know. But it's what it looks like. All one can do is hope the investment will turn out worth it, I suppose.</p>
<p>Obviously, I feel a little bit disillusioned with the supposedly need-based Ivy-Schmivy finaid -- but at the same time I understand that they are counting on families to have thought of this beforehand.</p>
<p>When I began saving the $150 monthly into D's college fund my goal was to pay for instate public college tuition only (not including room & board), my thinking was that a degree from any college was just fine and I still feel that way. I concentrated on her primary and secondary school education in the private sector spending about $6K per year along with generous financial aid for grades 9-12 so that she would be uber prepared for college. It just turned out that she ended up at an Ivy, only applied to one. She also applied to several LAC with large endowments and stellar instate programs to get many academic and financial options. I also drove the same car for 15 years and often had a small business or 2nd part-time job to cover the cost of private education. Additionally, I targeted about 12 local outside scholarships to reduce the student effort (especially student loans) or being forced to work an undesirable summer job (trust me D will be working each summer, but at something that meets her career exploration goals and not just for the money, the same goes for academic year work averaging about 7 hours per week) portion of the financial aid package. D should be able to graduate debt free as she just received a $5k per year scholarship. Part of this is good planning and the other part is just being blessed. </p>
<p>We didn't plan for my step sons college except to help him get the best high school education possible, his mom picked great schools and my husband paid the fees for them (boarding schools in Zimbabwe in the 1990's) when he came to the US for college he attended an instate engineering co-op program which essentially paid for it self as he used the co-op funds and a few scholarships to pay tuition and was only $8K in debt when he graduated. We used home equity to pay for the first year and he worked very part time at a grocery store for 6 years throughout his undergraduate, when not co-oping to cover living expenses (he is very frugal - he moved off campus - but close enough to walk to class - to a cheap studio apartment and cooked his own meals). I helped him choose this program thinking that he enjoyed math, he needed work experience and would graduate with a career focused or what I call a functional degree (D will probably major in English with a teaching certificate, she may decide to go into writing/publishing - but will have a functional BA which suits her talents and temperament) and could then move into whatever else he liked, for example medicine. I guess I am just traditional and value stability and lots of structure.</p>
<p>P.S. Most of our vacations were to visit friends and relatives or combined with business travel. D also had all of the lessons in whatever it is she wanted and nice summer camps.</p>
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lskinner, I think Mizo has the better plan. According to her post, she simply saved $150 per month -- I used an online calculator and figured out that over 18 years, with a 5% rate of return, that would result in more than $50K in college savings -- or $12.5K annually to supplement whatever the family's EFC would be.
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<p>That's assuming only 1 child. It also assumes that the money can be put in a tax deferred account and then withdrawn without paying any taxes. </p>
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I think the 5% plan shows that it is quite reasonable and doesn't necessarily entail a huge sacrifice
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<p>For some families it's do-able. For others, it may very well entail a huge sacrifice. </p>
<p>In any event, I don't think any of this undercuts my original point.</p>
<p>whoever says they can't afford any ivy league school isn't truly middle class - their parents can afford to pay. too many people here think 100k is middle class; i come from a poor area and that is considered rich. the average in the country is about 50k or so.......</p>
<p>although, sometimes you have to enlighten the FA office by telling them your extenuating circumstances. i did this for my ivy college, and i got a very good FA plan, making it much much cheaper than a state school.</p>
<p>additionally, saving 50k for college isn't too bright either - the college will raise your efc.</p>
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the average in the country is about 50k or so.......
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<p>I imagine that in Lagos, Nigeria, "50k or so" would make you truly upper class -- perhaps you would live in a big house with live in servants and guards to protect you.</p>
<p>I have a S in college. S2 wants to go Ivy League. When my husband and I did the EFC it came in around $14,000/per child. Now when we submit the CSS Profile will that form change things considerably? Or just somewhat? We can't pay $45,000 for an Ivy as we are already paying $40,000 for S1. Our EFC was much higher when he applied 2 years ago. We don't want to disappoint our S after he has applied so we are looking for answers. How much does the CSS Profile change your EFC?</p>
<p>It depends. If you have a divorce to deal with, it can change a lot. The Profile asks for income and assets from all parents and step parents, FAFSA does not.</p>
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<p>It depends on the second job, also if you quit your job, you can't save for your retirement and if the second job pays well, it can be used to pay for college tuition. Same with bonus, it depends on the bonus.</p>
<p>I agree with nervesofjelly.... ivies aren't "all that" you can go to another top school and get merit aid..... but if you're not qualified enough for that.... then I don't know.. I think ppl who waist 160,000 dollars plus a year for an ivy... are dumb. school is school, material is material..... ivy is just a name, and an age.... so what if they were the first schools... so what.... u can find geniuses everywhere. and great proffessors too..</p>
<p>Chioma,</p>
<p>People these days don't go to the ivies because they like plunking down hundreds of thousands of dollars. Learning is learning, whether you're going to Harvard or the state college and you know what, there are tons of places where you will learn more than at an Ivy league school. However, that huge investment comes back to you in the form of networking. Connections are the currency of today and very few people will go to an Ivy league school to just stay in their dorm, not talk to anyone and study 24/7. Chances are, you'll meet someone important when you go to an Ivy and that someone may one day help you land a job, get a big contract, meet someone you really like or move somewhere you really want to. </p>
<p>All that said, the cost is still a rip-off :P.</p>
<p>Quick note, when we say middle class here, what income level are we talking about?</p>
<p>I think it's left vague on purpose. If you think you are middle class then you are middle class.;)</p>
<p>so......the ivies don't use your fafsa efc (at least yale doesn't-- i asked). they use their own calculations, including the more detailed CSS profile to calculate what they expect your parents and you to pay.
for me, what they expected my parents to pay was almost $10K more than our fafsa efc b/c of assets, etc., but it's not like a middle class family can/will just sell those (like property, stocks, etc.) to pay for a four year education.
so in short, WE'RE SCREWED.
my parents can't afford the fafsa efc, let alone yale's efc.</p>
<p>I am sure top Ivies such as Pton, yale, and harvard are more than happy to meet full need. Those schools are more concerned with the quality of their students more than anything else. </p>
<p>What range do people typically consider as middle class? (50000-80000)??</p>
<p>Also, what are you guys's opinions on other top schools (non ivy) like Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, etc.?</p>
<p>Actually, Yale is supposed to have pretty bad FA compared to the rest of the League. Penn specifically stated that it would match offers from any other Ivy School (as well as some other top 20 schools) while I heard that Yale refused to match other offers most times.</p>
<p>Westcoastlove, Stanford aid is supposed to be on par with Harvard-status aid (as in, the best aid in the nation). My friends who will attend got $$ like you would not believe.</p>
<p>My family contribution is 10k less than our FAFSA EFC, but it's perhaps because my parents sent in a list of special circumstances explaining certain booms in salary and extra expenses.</p>
<p>I don't even really know what is truly considered good aid or bad aid (and what EFC is actually a reasonable estimate). How much is too much for a family contribution for lower/regular middle-class people (under 100k).</p>
<p>It really sucks being middle class nowadays, especially since being middle class not only are you on a tight budget for a good school but also you don't get all the dazzling oppurtunities that rich kids get, and you don't get the humbleness a poor person gets either</p>
<p>Princeton offers 100% of demonstrated need, the term people have defined and described earlier in the thread. Additionally, as of 2005, Princeton also has completely removed all student loans for all of its undergraduates since the program was initiated in 2001. It will now only offer grants. You can read more about it here on News @ Princeton. </p>
<p>i don't think ivy league schools cost 'a lot' more than other non-ivy league schools anyways. Of course, state universities cost a lot less but their student population is way too big for my liking.</p>