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</p>
<p>Do you realize that you just acknowledged that Andover was NOT need-blind? To use an analogy, a student don’t get an A on math just for his effort, however laudable it may be. He also needs to score!</p>
<p>“Once the determination is made by Andover on the ‘first round draft picks’ then the ability to pay is immaterial.”</p>
<p>I don’t think Andover is alone in this respect, btw. They may be the only school that still makes the “need blind” claim, but they are not the only one with a tradition of “if you can get in, we’ll make it possible for you to go”. 2-3 other schools come to mind for me.</p>
<p>Note that NOBODY has debated the generosity of Andover in granting FA. This thread is about possibility of any school being truly “need blind”. </p>
<p>So far this much is unequivocal to me:</p>
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</p>
<p>No saucy opinions here. Just the facts, synthesized from various replies in this thread. And this is my 5 steps to peace with Andover paradox. :)</p>
<p>I’m a bit confused as to why there is such a focus on Andover in this discussion. It isn’t the only school to say that it is needs blind. I believe that Groton also makes this claim. I don’t think that Groton makes the same claim that they will meet all the demonstrated need like Andover. Aren’t there other BS who also have the needs blind policy? </p>
<p>^^ Andover put the focus on themselves. They openly state they are the only school to be need blind. Their claim is worth repeating for others that may be joining the thread late.</p>
<p>“Andover is the only private secondary boarding school in the United States to have maintained a full need-blind admission policy since 2008”
<a href=“http://www.andover.edu/About/Newsroom/Pages/Andover-announces-record-admission-results-for-237th-incoming-class.aspx”>http://www.andover.edu/About/Newsroom/Pages/Andover-announces-record-admission-results-for-237th-incoming-class.aspx</a></p>
<p>If Groton claims to be fully need-blind, cite the source.</p>
<p>Internally, I believe the Andover administration are drinking their own Kool-Aid and believes they are “full need-blind”. But they must be using a lot of weasel words around that claim, which they will not make privvy to others (unless they are forced to).</p>
<p>@SharingGift - I am not as forgiving as you. While I never had a bone to pick with Andover before, this bold-faced lie irks me. It lacks integrity. And I dont even know why they feel the need to claim an untruth as it wont affect their standing nor their reputation for generosity. They are generous, but unclear if they are MORE generous than others in their peer group.</p>
<p>@Momto4kids: I don’t know how familiar you are with the BS sub forum of CC or the schools regularly discussed here, but of the more frequently discussed schools, AFAIK the “need blind” claim is only made by Andover and, until relatively recently, St. Andrew’s in Delaware. </p>
<p>FYI, I just went to the Groton site and they do not use “need blind” language. They do claim to have separate admission and FA processes (as do many schools), but the phrase “need blind” is absent…and yes, I think the specific wording is important.</p>
<p>@Momto4kids From the Groton website:</p>
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</p>
<ol>
<li><p>They point out the admission and financial aid decisions are made separately. In my understanding, this means that the admission office picks a group of kids they want and the financial aid office tries to make this possible but won’t guarantee anything.</p></li>
<li><p>They say that nearly half the families apply for aid, yet their website also states that 38% receive aid. This shows that more people apply for aid than receive it, which could mean one of two things: people apply who don’t need it, or it is more competitive for those who apply. My guess is that it is a mixture of the two. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>All information was taken from <a href=“http://www.groton.org/admission/financial_aid”>http://www.groton.org/admission/financial_aid</a>.</p>
<p>@Momto4kids - Which makes Andover’s FA process NO DIFFERENT than it’s peer group. Yet, they insist on trying to set themselves apart. THAT is what is at issue here.</p>
<p>Whoops! Sorry if I “opened up a can of worms”. When we were looking at schools a friend suggested we look at Groton because of it being need blind. I guess that isn’t exactly correct. I never really looked closely at the policy in comparison to Andover. </p>
<p>@jersey386 I think Andover’s process IS different. As I understand it, they pick their class, turn it over to FA and say “make it happen”. As some others have pointed out, maybe the people they pick are accomplished in some extracurriculars that take money to develop. But they can hardly be criticized for accepting the mix of talent they want. It is a big school with deep athletic and arts departments and they need to make sure they have students who can add to those in a productive way.</p>
<p>@gratefulmom - And you believe this because of what Andover “says”? I challenge you to look at what they “do”. In a previous post I listed the amount of FA they spent (with sources for the #'s) on new students:</p>
<p>2014: $5,685,000
2013: $5,515,330
2012: $5,478,680</p>
<p>You CANT fall into such a tight range by coincidence. Clearly they have an FA budget JUST LIKE ANY OTHER SCHOOL. This budget greatly influences who ultimately matriculates.</p>
<p>When they say “need blind”, it implies there is no limit to what they will spend to get the students they want.</p>
<p>No one expects or demands Andover to be need blind. It is a standard they seem to impose on themselves. I predict shortly that they too will stop touting they are “need blind”, because they aren’t.</p>
<p>I think this is probably due to Andover picking off their choices and getting their yield.</p>
<p>Even if Andover does exactly what @gratefulmom89 said, wealthy kids get priority. So yes, they could be need-blind, but it doesn’t benefit everyone like they make it sound. </p>
<p>Andover is need blind. Groton is not. That’s by the definitions used in the higher education world. Andover is need blind like Amherst and the Ivies are. Groton is more like the need aware schools like JHU, Wash U, etc, though colleges will not have a specific fin aid wait list for the most part. </p>
<p>They do give a limited number of soci econ challenged kids a pass, and that is where the can budget so that %s are constant over the years. Believe me Andover is need blind.</p>
<p>@cptofthehouse - What is your definition of “need blind”? How do you KNOW Andover is “need blind”? How do you explain the $ amount of FA being so consistent year to year?</p>
<p>If we are to “believe you”, your going to have to do more than type out a few lines behind an anonymous user name. How about citing data or sources of your information.</p>
<p>@truthsquad112 - I understand that the $5.5M basically follows that specific students from year to year until they graduate. The $5.5M is important because that is what is dangled in front of the admittees and plays into their decision on whether or not to matriculate. Note that $5.5M x 4 years is $22M. Which is slightly less than your $19.5M because some of the folks offered aid may be entering as sophomores (or juniors) so won’t be there for 4 whole years.</p>
<p>They may be need blind, but no school is wealth blind.</p>
<p>^^Yes, this is very true. I think that can be said of many colleges even. You have the old NY Times article where the one student whose Grandfather’s name was on the building at Brown but wanted to be admitted on their own merits. The kid did not mention their Grandfather and was not admitted to Brown. They contrasted that case with the girl at Groton who despite having a much lower class ranking at Groton was admitted to Stanford. Back then it was a contribution of 25 million. I am sure the cost has increased substantially with the increased selectivity.</p>
<p>Yeah, I don’t know what you’re reading, but that’s not what I’m getting from this thread.</p>
<p>Exeter awarded 18.9 million in financial aid to 48% of the student body (not including faculty and staff children) with the average grant over 40,000 dollars. Full financial aid, including tuition, room, board, travel, fees, computer and books is automatic for any admitted student with family income under 75K. Exeter does not maintain it is “need blind” but these figures surpass Andover’s considerably.</p>