Can my daughter get into her reach school with low grades?

@happy1 - my daughters guidance counselor is not helpful at all - never returns phone calls etc. I’ve given up on him which is why I’ve (sadly) turned to the internet.

@woogzmama - that would be so awesome but all the fencing schools in the NE are Ivy League which would pose challenges. I never considered being recruited for fencing and have no idea how to even go about getting her recruited. She’s good and obviously performs well in her League/division but no clue how that would equate to the rest of the country. Villanova doesn’t have a fencing team though BC and Brown do. All far out of reach.

Seems like there are other schools with varsity fencing in the northeast and most of the fencing is in the north east. Some that don’t seem as far out of reach include (Division 1) Lafayette college, Sacred Heart University, St. Johns and Temple; Division 2 Queens College, NY. Division 3: Brandeis, Drew University, Lawrence U. Some of these seem to have some overlapping characteristics to Villanova.

Would you consider Catholic University in DC? I suspect the accepted student gpa is lower although I’ve heard their decisions can be hard to predict.

One other suggestion: I don’t know your daughter but I think a student with a 3.2 gpa, lots of ability but not the best study skills, may find it hard to stay on top of things at a big university. Would your daughter consider a smaller college? One school I really liked but couldn’t quite sell my kid on was College of Wooster.

Regarding recruitment, you should discuss it with her coach and explore possible pathways. If she’s that good, there will be someone who will bend admissions to get her. Lehigh is much harder to get into than Nova, so I would put it further down the reach spectrum. Unless of course, they recruit her for fencing…

^While the admission rate at Villanova is higher than at Lehigh (49% vs. 34%), average SAT/ACT scores are quite similar, with Villanova’s CR scores higher and Lehigh’s math scores higher (as would be expected, since Lehigh has a higher percentage of male and engineering students).

Penn State has excellent fencing, if she’s good and willing to continue at a high level. GPA is 2/3 of the decision but they use weighted and she’d need at least a 3.5 weighted for that SAT score.
I would second Drew as an alternative to Villanova, as well as Lafayette indeed.

  1. My advice is not to just apply EA willy nilly. Sometimes that applicant pool is the strongest. If her grades need raising, she might have a better shot RD. The way to find out is for your D to email the Villanova AO and ask. Have a resume to send along. That will count towards demonstrating interest, as well as help your D apply at the best time for her advantage.
  2. Fencing - Recruited athletes can get away with lower scores and grades. Especially in a sport with fewer athletes. Some kids from our school got into a VERY top university with a 28 and lower grades a few years ago. If your daughter is pretty good, she might have a lot more college options than you are aware of if she wants to play for in college. My D plays a sport, she registered with some online tools and you have to register with the NCAA. To get going, SHE contacted schools she would like to attend and play for. They don't come looking for you. I easily found a list of schools that have fencing -http://www.usfencing.org/page/show/698853-college-club-programs. You definitely should get advice from a coach, or other experienced athlete about how to proceed. However, if your D wants advice on crafting an email to college coaches, my D has one she wrote you could use as an example. Just PM me.
  3. I think you might want to get someone for some good advice. Are there college fairs in your area? We went to one with my older daughter, and some college counselors were there for free for advice. Some were from private high schools, some were for-pay private counselors, but all offered free advice at the fair. We had about 10 minutes worth of questions. It was really helpful.

What is it about Villanova that she loves? Loyola University Maryland is a Catholic university in the same general geographic area. They have a really good business school that might not be such a reach.

Unless she has a strong classification (e.g. a recent B) in her weapon and some national-level results to go with it, I wouldn’t spend much time focused on being recruited for fencing. Also, as several have noted – including the OP – there are very few schools that have fencing teams, and Villanova isn’t one of them. (Ruby’s link is just a list of club programs, not NCAA).

Honestly, I would think long and hard about being willing to do whatever you need to to come up with the funds for Villanova. There was a thread earlier this year with just that issue - kid got in but the parents would have had to borrow a LOT of money. Honestly, not sure it is worth it. She could probably find a school with a similar atmosphere that would give her merit money or even better financial aid.

Really encourage her (and yourself) to be open to other schools. As someone said above, if it is the atmosphere she loves, Loyola Maryland or Fairfield could be similar.

Good luck!

Can you ask the fencing coach for advise?

@lostaccount and @MYOS1634 Thank you - we looked at Lafayette and Penn State. Penn State was too big and Lafayette was too small. The ones in NY are too clse to home! Thank you for suggesting Drew -we will look into it.

@Ruby789 Thank you for the advice. I will have my daughter email Admissions with a copy of her resume. Hoping that she will raise her grades this quarter so may have her send it sometime in Oct when first quarter grades come out
Thank you so much for your offer to show me the letter your daughter wrote. I will PM you as I think that may be an excellent idea. I also called the coach and am waiting to hear back. Not sure if she can even get recruited but it’s worth a shot.
My job has a College career site as a benefit of employment and you can sign up for a consult. I just signed up for a 45 minute appointment so hoping I can get some advice. Thank you so much for all your feedback.

@3rdXsTheCharm - we are going to look at Loyola too. She loved the size, the campus ane general feeling she got when we toured. We looked at a bunch of other schools but this is the first one she “fell in love” with.

@guidedbywire - Yes I was afraid that she needed a certain type of classification for fencing. I’ll talk to the coach and see if I can get more info.

@mom2and Great advice and one we will take to heart. The thing is I don’t even know if she’s eligible for merit so we just assumed we would have to pay the entire tuition no matter what school she went to. Knowing that, we figured if we were going to take out a loan for a school, it might as well be a school that is a reach for her. Fairfield and Loyola keep popping up so we will definitely plan a visit to both as well as Scranton.

TO EVERYONE WHO HAS RESPONDED:
BTW, I want to thank everyone for all the helpful advice I received. It’s really been super helpful and invaluable. Apologies that I didn’t y respond individually to people earlier in the thread but I just realized how to “quote” people recently. This has been eye opening and I appreciatate everyone’s help.

@coloradomom - I have a call into the coach and hoping she can guide me

Has she visited Villanova? It’s a beautiful school and the students, although fairly homogeneous, were outgoing and friendly when we visited. We also were impressed by their emphasis on service (which we felt contrasted favorably with Lehigh’s extremely libertarian feel). But it is very expensive and not known for generous FA. It’s gotten pretty competitive too, with a lot of affluent kids viewing it as a the BC-alternative from what I gathered.

My next-door neighbors are 'Nova grads, but it was too pricey for their kids, who all went to Penn State and LOVED it. But we’re in PA, so they were paying in-state rates. My other RC neighbors sent their kids to Loyola of Maryland and St. Joe’s, where I think there was some merit money to be had.

Please run the net price calculators for these schools and figure out a realistic budget for your family. It’s wonderful that you’re willing to do whatever is necessary for your daughter, but make sure you’re being realistic, especially if she doesn’t have clear ambitions at this point.

IF you can comfortably afford to be full-pay, check out Lafayette as well. It has a beautiful campus too and, while it’s gotten pretty competitive there, they definitely favor students who apply ED.

@LucieTheLakie Yes she visited Villanova and loved the campus, the vibe and the people. Surprisingly enough, it wasn’t as homogenous as others people have mentioned. We did see some diversity which was nice.

Loyola is an option and one we will look at. I never heard of St. Joe’s but will look into that as well. Can you point me in the right direction for the thread regardig the cost of college and if a loan is worth it? I’ve had several people mention that but not sure where to look as I’d love to read the different points of view.

We looked at Lafayette but my daughter didn’t like it as much. The 2 schools so far that she has really latched on to are Villanova (reach) and Univ of Delaware with Nova being her ideal.

@jyyanks, so sorry, I missed an entire page of posts before I made that post!

Thank you for clarifying what your daughter likes and dislikes. It does sound like she’s looking for something larger than a typical LAC. UDel is really nice in that sense, very vibrant but small for a state flagship. It’s just pricey for OOS families, but Villanova is pricey too! I do think she sounds competitive for UDel, so if it’s affordable, maybe look at UVM too, as it’s another state flagship that’s very popular with OOS students: http://www.uvm.edu/

I’m not sure which loan thread you’re wondering about. There’s a lengthy ongoing discussion about the pros and cons of Parent Plus loans, which you can find here: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1498510-read-this-before-you-take-out-a-parent-plus-loan-p1.html

I’m not sure which Villanova thread @mom2and was referring to in post #30, but there was an EPIC discussion about Villanova back in 2014 that may be of interest if you have a LOT of time on your hands :): http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1615103-is-villanova-university-worth-it-p1.html

St. Joe’s is a Jesuit university about 20 minutes from Villanova. It’s not as luxurious as Nova (and the students aren’t as wealthy), but a lot of students in suburban Philadelphia choose it because they’ve been extremely generous in recent years with merit money–so generous that they’ve gotten into some financial trouble, but I don’t know that that affects the student experience. It’s definitely not as prestigious as Villanova, if that’s important to your daughter, but it’s a solid school: http://www.sju.edu/

FWIW, UDel was the first campus we visited with our son back in 2013 during his junior year. We all liked it a lot and used it as a very helpful starting point in my son’s search. He thought he wanted something smaller, so we focused on LACs, but by the time he graduated from HS, he was ready for something much larger. Kids are funny that way!

A “B” rating isn’t an absolute requirement. Recruitment will depend a lot on the school’s squad needs (gender & weapon). I knew of a foilist who made the women’s PSU team with a relatively recent “C” rating. But generally the coaches tend to look for their recruitment targets at the North American Cups and Summer Nationals, from the ranks of the cadet and junior national points lists.

If the school only has a club, there will be no barriers to participating. But there also won’t be any advantage gained in admissions (other than it being a relatively uncommon extracurricular).

There used to be a couple of very informative fencing threads here at CC with a couple of contributors who really knew the ins and outs of the collegiate fencing scene.

If Queens College and St. John’s are too close to home…what would make Drew far enough away? It’s not all.that far from NYC.

I second Loyola MD, and Fairfield. What about Siena, or Marist?

@LucieTheLakie Thanks for the links to the threads. Very informative and give me a lot of food for thought. Appreciate the link to St. Joe’s - I never heard of it but just added it to the list. I never know what runs through my kids heads. We visited BC (we were in the area) and she took one look and said “no way” and then we got to Nova and she was hooked.

@guidedbywire I just did a search and saw some informative posts so I have bookmarked to read for later. I also called her coach to see if we could meet and discuss options.

@thumper1 I had no idea where Drew was but it is definitely too close to home. Loyola is a definite possibility and we are going to make plans to visit in the next couple of weeks. I’ve heard a ton about Fairfield recently. I’m adding it as well because it’s close and we can make a quick day trip. I never heard of Siena so will look that up. Marist is interesting. We know people who went there and the campus is gorgeous, we just never considered it.