Ack! I should’ve read your post more closely. My apologies, @eandesmom! 
@mdcmom I don’t know if they will fit your son but two schools I know of from my own research (common data set) that admit significantly more boys than girls are Elon University and Holy Cross.
@MomStudent2017 I don’t know if the school in general would meet your son’s needs, but check out UVA Wise. They have marching band, in-state for VA, and the UVA brand.
Admission requirements are top half of class ranking and an ACT of 18 or SAT of 900. Just another suggestion!
@jcc … I wasn’t aware UVA-Wise had a marching band … hasn’t shown up on any of my on-line searches. For now, my son wants a slightly larger school than what Wise offers, but good to know just in case. I’m not originally from VA, so to be honest I had no idea where Wise was located … maybe we’ll take a detour next time we head down I-81.
I’m hoping parents of B & C students can guide me/son on senior year course selections. He received teacher recommendations & has e-mailed the GC with questions, but we would appreciate thoughts from others.
In order to graduate, he’s required to take 4 core academic courses (English/History/Science/Math):
- He was recommended for AP Eng Lang & Comp. He’s currently taking “regular” English, but his teacher thinks he can handle an AP class. But, at his HS AP Lang is normally taken by 11th graders vs AP Lit by 12th graders. Won’t that look odd on his transcript?
- AP US & Comparative Gov’t. He’s currently taking AP US History. Is the rigor of AP Gov’t on par with APUSH?
- He was recommended for either Conceptual Physics or Physics. This is his choice depending on how much of a challenge he wants. Do colleges “look down” on Conceptual Physics?
- He was recommended for Advanced Functions & Modeling. He’s currently taking Algebra 2 & the next progression is normally Advanced Algebra/Pre-Calculus, but his math teacher said “it’s too hard & moves too fast”. Will not taking Pre-Calc look “bad” when applying to college?
He’s allowed 3 electives:
He’s trying to decide between a Computer Math/Introduction to Computer Science course OR an AP Micro/Macro Economics course. He just started a semester of Economics that is required by the State to graduate, so it’s too early to tell how he feels about this course.
Hubby suggested he take a semester of Psychology & a semester of Philosophy (World of Ideas).
His 3rd elective will be a 4th year of band.
I know each child is different, but if your “B or C” child took any of these similar courses, I would appreciate hearing from you … thanks!
I do think the combination of no pre-calc and functional physics may look funny to admissions. It would scream to me that your son is not a math/science kid for sure. That may be fine is his intended course of study is history/poli sci. It will depend on the universities that you are targeting.
What about AP Statistics?
My D16 has found AP US Gov to be on par with APUSH. She did not enjoy her first semester of AP Econ, really did not enjoy it. Why take the AP econ as a senior if he is taking the regular econ now? If he is really interested in business or econ that the AP class he should to fairly well in it as he will have already been exposed to the concepts.
AP lang is taken by 11th and 12tg graders so it’s no problem. It’s an excellent class to take to prepare for the rigor of college writing and it’s one of the few AP’s accepted basically everywhere.
AP gov is a bit easier than apush.
No problem with Conceptual Physics - taking physics is the most important and Conceptual Physics would carry the same weight as another physics class for admissions.
What does he want to major in? Will he need to take pre-calculus in college or will he be able to take a general quantitave class for humanities majors, or statistics?
If his current math teacher thinks he can’t handle pre-calculus, see whether it means s/he can’t make a B or if it means she worries he’s at risk for a D which may lead to admission issues.
Psychology and philosophy sound like a great idea for a humanities/social science kid.
Does your school offers AP cs principles? It’s very multi faceted and may appeal to him.
Does he have foreign language up to level4 or AP? It’d be especially important for a student who’s not too stem-y.
Does the number of AP’s really matter for B and C students? I think that many of these students will be applying to schools that are less selective. I am not sure my son will be taking any APs. In fact at our school, if you haven’t maintained a B in an Honors or an A in a regular course, you aren’t allowed to take the AP in a subject. I think the goal is to keep them challenged but not over do it. They like to keep the AP’s for the top level A students.
FWIW, there are people at our school taking AP Lang as seniors. Some times schedule issues force things to be done out of the typical order.
I think the “to AP or not to AP” is a valid question and there really is no one size fits all answer. Colleges don’t really want to see a kid with all A’s in mainstream classes, it means they did not challenge themselves at all. A B student who took a more rigorous schedule may be viewed more favorably than the A student who did not. To a point. If the rigor brings them more into the C category then it generally is not worth the expense of the rigor (or the stress for that student).
No matter the student, none should take an AP class just for the sake of it being AP. It should be of interest and something they want to do.
At our school we have a similar recommendation, B in honors or A in regular and it is a good baseline.
A B/C student with 2-4 AP’s would do VERY well at a directional 's honors college (I’m thinking similar to wku, unc-w, u-wisc claire, Sonoma Huntington, even St Mary’s MD…), at CTCL 's, and would increase his/her chances at the flagship.
This would require him/her to have one area of strength and a teacher 's recommendation.
I’d have to disagree on the directional honors college, it really depends. My S17, a B+ student with 3 AP’s and 3 honors classes to date will not qualify for our top directional universities honors program and has a slim chance at getting into our flagship at all (which he has no interest in attending so that’s ok). He would possibly qualify for our mid tier directional universities honors program but that is by no means a sure thing and his test scores would need to come up more than they are likely to. Admittance aside, an honors program in general may not be right fit for a C student.
I am sure it varies by state so I would simply say that the impact it has, will vary. However, depending on the school, the weight given to his AP classes (impacting the gpa) may increase guaranteed merit awards in certain instances.
I agree Honors wouldn’t work well for a C student, but for a hard working B student it may work.
Those are the programs I referenced:
http://www.wcupa.edu/honors/prospectiveStudents.aspx
(1200 SAT + 3.5 weighted GPA or top 20% class)
http://www.wku.edu/
(actually more selective than I thought: 1210 SAT + 3.8 UW or top 15% of class, so, not for B students - I thought it was 3.8 weighted which in KY is not Montgomer County level).
https://www.uwec.edu/academics/university-honors-program/
(B+ student/Top 15% + 1340 SAT-not a B student- BUT ALSO Holistic admissions, which comprise 2°-40µ all admits, with 1200 SAT and excellent essays and/or other factors.)
Sonoma is good for 1500/1600SAT&B students and the program is holistic in admissions.
In many states, the directionals’ honors programs would be good for B students, but of course some states such as NC or VA would be more difficult than others even for their directionals.
I am absolutely convinced that D16’s 11 AP made her 3.46uw/4.68w easier to swallow. Batting 11/12 for admissions so far.
Thanks for all the comments. Parents are given the opportunity to meet with core teachers next month, so all suggestions are welcomed.
I feel better knowing that AP Lang is taken by seniors. My son was so honored that his English teacher recommended him for an AP course.
I don’t know if our HS has a similar “B in honors or A in regular” policy, but parents are allowed to override teacher recommendations. We encouraged him to take APUSH – he loves his teacher, loves the subject & is doing extremely well for his 1st AP.
We thought he was a “science kid” since he took 3 honors science courses in MS & 2 in HS, which he loved & did well, but the 1st semester of Chemistry was a challenge.
He has never been a “math kid” so I’m assuming the math teacher feels Pre-calculus may be too challenging.
The HS offers AP Computer Science, but only with Computer Math/Intro to CS as a prerequisite.
For now he’s thinking of majoring in business, so that’s why taking AP Econ (on top of semester Econ) is a possible elective.
As to whether B & C students should take AP courses … there is a big difference between a straight C student & a student who receives a C in 1 or 2 courses & A’s & B’s in the remaining courses. At our HS AP courses receive an additional 1.0 GPA bump – & we all know how important GPA is
My son only wants to attend colleges with marching bands. In case you have insight on these colleges, we’re currently looking at CNU & ODU in VA / ECU in NC / WVU / Kent State, Bowling Green & OH U.
of those, my favorite would be CNU - nice campus, nice location, good leadership program for “hands-on” students, good mix of students, not too competitive compared to other VA schools. In NC, I prefer UNC-W/UNC-A (but I realize they don’t have a marching band!) as well as Appalachian (should have one) to ECU, but you need to like mountains and snow :). In Ohio, Ohio University (also Miami-Oxford but may be a reach depending on GPA. He’d have the necessary course rigor.)
Does your HS offer CS Principles, which should have no pre-reqs? It’s new and very broad, to introduce the different fields to students who may not be “techie”, and it involves a lot of projects (CS A would have intro to CS as a pre-rq, and is more programming.)
Remind him that you can work in a business without majoring in business. In fact, most people who work in a business majored in many other things than business.
GPA is important but realize that every school treats honors and AP differently. Our school does not weight. A B in an AP, or a C only hurts the GPA. However all colleges will level the field one way or another to address this. So, if a kid got a A in a mainstream class but a C in the AP, the mainstream would have been the better choice. If the child would have gotten a B in the AP versus an A, then the AP may well have been the better choice. It is very subjective and based on the child. You can see by college whether they count GPA as weighted or not but the “rigor” a college gives to an AP schedule and the factor that has in admission or not is more difficult to quantify as it is going to vary tremendously.
Our directional schools (Western WA and Central WA) have the following requirements
Western
3.8 GPA, 1900 SAT or 28 ACT, and a selection of Honors, AP, IB, and/or other challenging high school courses. The average admitted to honors is higher than the minimum requirements.
Central
3.3 cumulative GPA in high school, have completed rigorous high school coursework, and have scored in the top 10% on either the SAT or ACT (so similar scores, just a lower GPA.
Central is for the B+, Western for the A. Not necessarily the tippy top A but A nonetheless.
As for the math…if he doesn’t take pre-calc now, he will have to in college and it will be more difficult and/or add some time to the curriculum schedule. We went through this with our eldest who did not test in for the entry math level at his LAC and had to take extra classes as a result to add a business minor to his music technology degree. Not suggesting that means he take it now but that it’s likely in his future and if it’s a struggle it might be helpful to consider a tutor if that’s the path (business) he thinks he wants.
CNU is getting more competitive to get into (the kids themselves are a smart group, but not super competitive with each other, which makes for a friendly, relaxed atmosphere). Class of 2015 average incoming freshman class GPA was the third highest out of all Virginia public colleges and universities incoming freshman classes - at about a 3.8 GPA. Higher GPA needed for their Honors (average 4.1) and PLP programs. My DS is in the 2015 freshman class. His stats were a 3.7 GPA, 29 ACT, and a 1970 SAT. He had 5 AP’s.
The students are quite proud of their band. I’ve seen them and was impressed myself. The show I saw included flaming batons and lots of action!
@MomStudent2017 - I am an Ohio U alum. I loved my time at OU and you can’t beat the Marching 110. I also applied to and was accepted at Kent and Bowling Green. I felt BG was too flat (I know a stupid reason to dismiss a college, lol) Took a few summer classes at Kent and was glad that I didn’t choose Kent. I was not impressed with the econ class nor the Russian language course I took at Kent. My brother started at Kent State and actually ended up transferring to Akron U because he didn’t like Kent. A good friend from HS also started at Kent and ended up transferring to Ohio U. My best friend in HS’s Dad taught Computer Science at Kent - she was a B+ student and could have gone to Kent tuition free - but her Dad did not even want her to apply at Kent, that spoke volumes to me,s he ended up at Miami (OH). My own D16 has been accepted to OU, but is probably not going to go with OU.
I got through my International Studies - The USSR and Eastern Europe major at Ohio University taking nothing over Algebra I. Back in the day, you could take a Logic or Philosophy class for the second math requirement in the College of Arts & Science, it was the biggest godsend for me. I failed Macro Economics at OU, hence the summer class at Kent where I passed it with a B. From what you have said I’d say he is right on track for OU which, of the Ohio schools you’ve listed, would be my choice.
ACT Composite for BG: 19-25
ACT Composite for Kent: 20 - 25
ACT Composite for OU: 22 - 26
@labegg - your comment about BGSU made me laugh…I went there for a year and all I remember is that it was very flat and seemed to snow sideways whenever I’d have to trudge across campus :). Coming from MD, the campus felt pretty isolated, too, so I headed back east after my freshman year. But, my cousin went there more recently and loved it, so I think it really depends on the student.
wrt to precalc: if he’s a business major, he’ll need to take precalc and calc in college (as well as statistics). Since math isn’t his strong suit, a it would be in your interest to check ahead of time that the colleges he applies to haves a special “calc for business” section/course, where he won’t be with premeds that will crush him. The best move for him is to take precalc next year (the lightest version offered by the HS perhaps - if that’s what the math teacher suggested then it’s ok) while still in high school, because it’ll be high-school paced, then precalc in college which will be faster-paced and more in-depth but still recognizable&doable to him due to the “preview”, and finally calculus for business his second semester freshman year, with stats sophomore year. Calculus is likely required to understand economics, a required business course.
However, since juniors are unlikely to really know what they’re going to major in, make sure he can handle precalc with at least a C. If he can’t, it’s probably a hint he shouldn’t major in business and should focus on fields that “only” require statistics.