<p>I’m feeling like DS needs to re-visit his list. There are no OOS publics on his list.
Not sure if I’m supposed to start another thread at this point but here’s the scenario anyway.
He really likes USD (good size, Catholic, San Diego!, biology course offerings are acceptable), but per Naviance I’m a little concerned because his SAT score is about 400 points higher and GPA about 0.4 higher than average accepted from our school. I worry about whether it will be competitive enough to prepare him for a more competitive med school. I went to a similar college and was in the top few in science courses and on MCAT. Then when I went to med school was 50th percentile in my class. Fine since I went into Primary Care but DS wants to specialize.
His safety is UT Austin (we’re in Texas)
Says it’s way too big but will go and make the best of it if he needs to.
That being said, I think instead of looking at schools like Emory and Wake Forest where he would be dependent on merit aid, shouldn’t he be looking at schools like UNC Chapel Hill or Berkeley? They’re not as huge as UT Austin and still in the budget. He’s in the running per Naviance for UNC Chapel Hill but the average GPA for Berkeley is 0.19 higher! OTOH, he is Mexican American at a school with very few URMs so that may alter things. SAT is fine at 2280 (800M+730CR+750W). He will retake it to try to super-score at 2300. A little GPA/SAT mismatch as he takes most rigorous schedule and Dad limits the amount of time they can spend on studying/school work. (He didn’t want them in private school. Says ‘his time’ should not be affected by my decisions. They spend more time with him than with me so you can see the ramifications).
Anyway, seems to me that those OOS publics are no more a reach than $20k in merit at Wake or Emory. While stats look great for those schools per Naviance, suspect the scholarship recipients’ are very high. I know fit is very important but he hasn’t seen any of these schools yet (besides UT). What do you think?</p>
<p>Just curious, but how does a kid with a NCP making $140,000 a year + step parent income qualify for a Pell grant?
Am I missing something? I thought it was for low income students? BTW, I was a recipient for my undergrad but for a state school (low cost) and also worked to support myself. Definitely not used for a private or out of state public university when there were lower cost options.</p>
<p>University of San Diego is a fine school. And your son will be well prepared with regards to the science and math prerequisite courses for medical school applications, and preparation for the MCAT (assuming he even sticks with this plan…and does well in the courses). His ability to specialize will be predicated on his performance in MEDICAL SCHOOL, not his undergrad school. </p>
<p>Both UNC-CH and Berkeley are reach schools for even top candidates. As an OOS student, UNC would be a reach for most. </p>
<p>Berkeley OOS is VERY expensive…and a reach for most.</p>
<p>I have read this whole thread more than once, and I’m not really sure what you are looking for. Your son has a good instate public university in UT Austin. And it is affordable. He has other applications all sent. </p>
<p>Does this kid even WANT to complete more applications at this point in time? I mean…really…it’s MARCH. You might want to check deadlines too. For some of these,schools you want to add, their priority deadline for financial aid has passed. Some have application deadlines that are either very close…or gone.</p>
<p>Thumper1, I’m sorry. I should have been more clear that DS is a Junior. We’re going to look at schools this summer and would like DS to avoid looking at a bunch of schools he can never afford. For example, he may love Colorado College but it’s not financially do-able. Why waste money visiting it? Doesn’t belong on the list IMO.
Things may have changed since I went to med school, the students from Princeton, JHU were just reviewing Biochem (as an example) and everything I learned in my year long Biochem course at college, we covered in the 1st 6 weeks. Can really help if you’re trying to be in the top 10% of your class. Your performance in medical school does determine the residency you get into, but just good to be well-prepared, IMHO.
Anyway, to me, it seems like most of the schools on his list are a reach in some way. Will discuss more with DS. </p>
<p>Goingnutsmom, your screen name is starting to describe me quite well. Apparently, Pell grant need is determined by the custodial parent’s income and he’s disabled on social security making less than 20k a year.</p>
<p>Someone else mentioned that spouses income of NCP must be reported on the FAFSA. Is this correct? I don’t think Pell Grants are for families that can afford to contribute $20,000 to 30,000 a year to their kid’s college. Everyone kid that I’ve known that has gotten a Pell Grant (free money) doesn’t have those types of resources.
The $20,000-30,000 + loans you can contribute to your son’s education are enough for many types of possibilities- state school, private with merit etc. I understand that his custodial parent is on disability but you are a physician and expecting Pell Grants is I think abusing the system. Call it the way I see it.</p>
<p>Ah! He’s a junior. Look at the threads for guaranteed merit awards. Does he qualify for any of those? That would lighten the financial blow. No, they are NOT HYMPS…but there are plenty of great schools in the list. And NOT all doctors get their Undergrad degrees at top 20 schools.</p>
<p>Going nuts…the Pell Grant is based on the FAFSA EFC. The FAFSA ONLY includes the custodial parent income and assets, not the NCP income and assets. SO…if the custodial parent has a very low income (in this case apparently disability), then that is all that is counted for the Pell.</p>
<p>Non-custodial parent income (and spouse) are NEVER reported on the FAFSA. </p>
<p>The custodial parent is all that is reported (and spouse if there is one) on the FAFSA. And if there is spousal and/or child support, that is also reported on the FAFSA. But apparently this NCP doesn’t pay either any longer.</p>
<p>So…it is very possible that this kiddo would be entitled to the Pell Grant. Everyone can get the Direct Loan.</p>
<p>BUT schools using the Profile that require the NCP Profile will be problematic for this student in terms of need based aid. </p>
<p>The good news is that this student can afford his instate public universities. And he should really look at the guaranteed merit thread to see if there are any colleges where he would qualify for aid.</p>
<p>These awards are based on SAT or ACT score and GPA. </p>
<p>I would suggest that this student look at the SUNY schools as well. Their OOS cost of attendance is within the price point this family has set.</p>
<p>He should also look at University of Alabama, where he would get an automatic merit scholarship leaving his family with a bill that is well less than their price point. And YES, the school can prepare him well for potential medical school in the future.</p>
<p>Goingnutsmom, I’m not expecting any Pell grant. I already went to college and paid back all my loans. If DS is eligible to receive it, then he is. It’s not abusing the system if the system created it that way. If custodial parent was not in a wheelchair and could work, he’d be glad to contribute that 5k a year. </p>
<p>I don’t make the rules and will be very careful to make sure they are followed perfectly. If I did make the rules, I would have some way to allow for only part of the spouses (step-parent) income available for consideration. </p>
<p>If I was trying to abuse the system and be fraudulent, I could divorce my spouse and my son would qualify for financial aid to the tune of 15-30k (I’ve run the NPCs with just my info). I could spend down my assets or re-arrange finances. But I’m not doing any of that. I’m not like ‘shrewd surgeon’ and won’t have any side deal loans. I just want DS to know what to expect and it’s quite difficult. </p>
<p>Things are not always fair. I worked hard, went to medical school where I worked even harder and because I had greater income earning potential, my spouse stayed home with the kids. Then we get divorced and he gets the kids because he’s been the primary care giver. </p>
<p>Now my ex wants DS to apply and go to a ‘big name’ school with naive (from what I’ve read on this forum) thoughts about how it’s going to get paid for. Ex can’t pay and has bad credit so I’m the one who would have to co-sign. He means well, but hasn’t researched anything.</p>
<p>I borrowed $120k for my education (my parents were super poor) and eventually paid back about a $180k. Finally finished paying them off less than 5 years ago. I’ve obviously made some bad decisions out of ignorance and just trying to get help DS avoid some of the same.</p>
<p>Got it. So FAFSA only takes into account the parents income with whom you have lived with the most in the last 12 months. I got confused when a poster said to include the step parent’s income. But that would be if the custodial parent had remarried. Wow, so a parent can make $140,000 and contribute $30,000 and their kid gets a Pell grant?
I think we should have tried a different strategy to have our kid get it too. I guess I was also thinking of the ethics in this situation too. Wouldn’t feel right asking the government to pony up more than $5,000 when I can afford other options.</p>
<p>Yes, well aware of the private schools requiring a more in depth look at your finances. My S is at one of those $60,000 a year schools and no we are not wealthy. Paying from savings, current work, and he works too.</p>
<p>But you are not paying child support, correct? If a NCP pays child support, is that counted on the FAFSA? Interesting too how the custody arrangement did not include making financial arrangements on what would be your part to fund your son’s college education. I guess if you can live with it, more power to you. </p>
<p>Thank you, Thumper1. UAB has quite a nice selection of bio course offerings and is about 15k smaller in size. Just want him to open his mind to these options. Going to check out some threads to get some other ideas as well.</p>
<p>Goingnutsmom, in my earlier posts I explained the child support issue. I loaned my ex $15k out of the college savings to cover his household expenses as he had $0 income. When disability kicked in, they only gave him back pay for 2 months and that went to medical bills. Where was the government then? Oh, that’s right they have a system that they create and he’s just supposed to follow the rules.</p>
<p>I applaud you that you are making the 60k a year work but I can’t do it. Also helping Schizophrenic sib and mother disabled from working her whole childhood/teenage years as a migrant worker (all the while being sprayed with pesticides from the crop dusters like she was a weed). If he leaves Texas for college, he’ll be the very 1st one in the history of every blood relative on both sides. To me, that’s a luxury, not a necessity. My sib having enough to eat and a roof over his head is not a luxury and no, he can’t make it on the $500 that the government gives him (which he would say he earned prior to his diagnosis). I’m the only one in the family in a financial position to help and I do, so I sleep well. </p>
<p>DS can make the decision as to whether it’s ethical to accept the Pell grant. My contribution will be the same regardless. But following your logic: my ex should sell his 11 year old car and refuse his disability check for as long as that lasts because taking the bus is a cheaper alternative? I took 2 buses to get to my magnet high school. Wonder if my kiddos are so ‘ethical’ that they’d send that money in and use the city transportation like I did.
I think we’re off track here, but I assumed it would be rude to just ignore your post. </p>
<p>Yes, I think we are getting off track. I guess I’m trying to wrap my brain around the fact that a kid whose parent is a doctor and makes that much money gets a Pell Grant. It looks on the up and up but my idea that Pell Grants were for kids so poor that it was a financial lifeline to their education goes out the window. It seems that your kid has choices with or without the Pell Grant. It’s all on how it looks on paper I guess. BTW, I’m Mex-Am from the Texas border, my mom only has a 3rd grade education (because she had to start working at age 9 yrs old), first generation college student, and have really dysfunctional family members too. My son is also the first to go out of state to college. I’m also a licensed clinical social worker who works with low income families and whose children receive Pell Grants so they can make it to a community college or in state school. For them, the grant makes a huge difference- it’s a lifesaver. Your son has great stats, URM status and a parent willing to give a lot of money to his college education. He’ll be fine. Good luck in the college search. </p>
<p>My dear friend that I’ve often used as example had PELL and state need grants, subsubsidized loans and SEOG all as part of her children’s financial aid packages with a surgeon ex who would not pay for college. He deliberately strategized to get maximum financial aid out of the system and he did. Today both kids are graduates of state schools, one is a big law attorney on the partner track, the other is also doing exceptionally well. He did pay off all of their loans. </p>
<p>PELL, HOH, Earned Income and other entitlements have their rules and if you qualify, you get them. If you LEGALLY can get yourself in position to qualify fine The bigger problem are those who lie and cheat to get things that they LEGALLY are not entitled to get. There were and are so many doing this for college financial aid that verification has become a big deal these days. Strictly speaking, PELL Is permitted on top of college awards, but it’s rare a college, even the most generous ones will treat it that way, using it to integrate their aid packages so that the money goes directly into THEIR coffers, not as extra to make it easier for the student to meet the student contribution and other expenses which the rule permit.</p>
<p>Nobody needs to justify why they want to get as much money out to the system or why they have their dollar limits. It’s an individual thing. That’s in part why this board is here, to go over fin aid rules and opportunities so those can get the most out of what’s available Doesn’t exclude any financial category. </p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Here’s what I would do:</p>
<p>Have son ALSO apply to some schools that FOR SURE would give him huge merit. </p>
<p>Get ex to agree that IF son doesn’t get the FA that he seems to think that son would get, then a “less than big name” will be considered because HE can’t pay anything and it’s not fair that you have to pay it all. Since ex thinks that son WILL get lots of aid, then he should agree to this. And, spell out what “lots of aid” is. $5k in aid is not a lot. $25k per year is.</p>
<p>Otherwise, your ex is setting you up for a big bill by insisting on the “big school” and insisting that the FA will come. Without some merit-safeties, he’s setting you up for a big bill.</p>
<p>Have your son look at Rhodes College. Great for premeds and he’ll surely get a TON of merit.</p>
<p>@goingnutsmom I agree. When the NCP has a high income and is contributing, then there should be a way to stop the Pell Grant. But there isn’t. Frankly I think FAFSA should include the NCP’s income to avoid this craziness. </p>
<p>I think it’s strange that the NCP doesn’t pay child support. Yes, there was some odd agreement of $90k years ago, but really! The NCP should be paying child support.</p>
<p>Got it. Well aware that people will often use all sorts of machinations to gain the most out of the system that is suppose to help the needy. Pretty sure we know of a couple who is hiding all sorts of assets to qualify for aid and all quite legal. Their kid is going to a pricey private. I’m sure- they are pretty savvy. Just can of chapped that taxpayers money (Pell Grants/SEOG) is used to send kids whose parents are doctors making six figure incomes while my friends (who are a teacher and a social worker with full time and added part time jobs) won’t qualify for any of that assistance. Just because doesn’t mean you should. </p>
<p>Sorry- mean’t to say- just because you could doesn’t mean you should.</p>
<p>^^^
You can edit your post by clicking on the little wheel in the right corner of your post.</p>
<p>I was suggesting the U of Alabama main campus which is in Tuscaloosa, not Birmingham.</p>