<p>Bluebayou, I think you are correct. I know a kid who was a multi-generation D double legacy who was waitlisted RD, but accepted by H & P. I think that if he had applied ED he would have been in. Passing that up was a clear indication that it wasn’t his first choice.</p>
<p>^^^ There are perfectly good reasons why someone (a Geology student in particular) might prefer any of the other 3 schools to Dartmouth. Although it is the most socially prestigious and selective of the four, its social life is heavily influenced by fraternities and sororities ([Dartmouth</a> College Greek organizations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_College_Greek_organizations]Dartmouth”>Dartmouth College fraternities and sororities - Wikipedia)). Some students like this; some don’t. The location is fairly remote. Winters are long and bitterly cold (as they are at Carleton). Then there is the old “animal house”, beer culture reputation. And, it is the only one of these 4 schools that is not a member of the Keck Geology Consortium. </p>
<p>Having spent a year in Northfield years ago, I’m somewhat familiar with Carleton. I only know Dartmouth by reputation. My impression of the two is that Carleton has a more self-consciously intellectual atmosphere (somewhat akin to Reed, Chicago or Swarthmore). Maybe things have changed over the years at Dartmouth though. Whitman and Colorado College are both fine schools, less selective than Carleton and much less so than Dartmouth, but attractive nevertheless. If part of Dartmouth’s attraction is outdoor recreation, Whitman or Colorado have at least as much to offer in this regard. </p>
<p>Colorado College seems to have a strong geology department (though Consolation is right, you’ll be offered a greater number of courses at a larger U). The block plan facilitates field work. Good facilities (including a new LEED-certified science center) and an unparalleled, geologically rich location add to the attraction.
[Geology</a> Department - Colorado College](<a href=“http://www.coloradocollege.edu/dept/GY/facil.asp]Geology”>http://www.coloradocollege.edu/dept/GY/facil.asp)</p>
<p>I have no strong opinion about the use of ED as an admissions chance-boosting stratagem (though that is not its intended purpose). If the OP would be happy to attend any of these 4 schools and wants to please his parents, it may well work to best advantage to play this card on Dartmouth. But if he has reasonable doubts about Dartmouth or any other school, I don’t see the urgency of using ED at all. Without having seen the OP’s stats, it looks like he’s focusing on 4 good schools that share similar features, across a decent range of selectivity (though none of them are safety schools for most people). Put equal effort into each application, don’t take any for granted, and reassess after decisions come in.</p>
<p>Dartmouth’s acceptance rate is 12.0%…ED is 26%. So ED is probably a better shot. I do agree that anyone with a chance at Dartmouth is likely going to get into the other 3 pretty easily.</p>
<p>Realize that the 26% admit rate for Dartmouth ED includes virtually ALL of the recruited athletes. Plus legacies. Plus other hooked students such as high-statted URMS. 26% sounds good, but there is a serious question whether ED does the typical unhooked applicant any good at all.</p>
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<p>I cited some evidence above that this is not necessarily the case with Carleton, but heck, let’s just concede this one. So what’s the implication? Is it only that ED is not necessary at any of the other schools? If the OP realistically thinks he has a shot at Dartmouth, he does not need to play the ED strategy card anywhere else. Either use ED at Dartmouth, or not at all. </p>
<p>I’d buy that. Decide (after a visit if necessary) if you’d be happy to attend Dartmouth. If so, regardless of what you do or don’t know about the others, apply ED to Dartmouth. If not, apply RD or EA everywhere.</p>
<p>By the way (can’t quite let this go), the ACT medians for matriculating Carleton and Dartmouth students are almost exactly the same: 29-33 for Carleton, 29-34 for Dartmouth. SAT medians for CR run 660-750 at Carleton, 660-770 for Dartmouth. Pretty darn close. SAT medians for M run 650-740 at Carleton, 670-780 at Dartmouth (which has engineering programs).</p>
<p>From an applicant pool more than 3 times as large, with less than half the overall admit rate, Dartmouth assembles an entering class that has only slightly higher scores than Carleton’s. But Dartmouth’s yield rate is significantly higher than Carleton’s (~49% vs. ~36%). So the score medians for accepted students may well be even closer than the above medians for matriculated students, or possibly even higher at Carleton than at Dartmouth (since Carleton presumably is losing more of its highest-scoring admits than Dartmouth is.)</p>
<p>Carleton is something of a Ph.D. factory, less party-hearty and socially prestigious than Dartmouth, with less-robust sports programs. So its admit rate likely reflects fewer relatively low-scoring, relatively low-ranked candidates who may or may not have compensating hooks. Carleton nevertheless attracts its share of talented, brainy applicants and is probably the most selective LAC inside the two coasts. This is why I don’t believe every viable Dartmouth candidate will sail easily into Carleton. It depends on what qualities make one competitive at Dartmouth, to what degree, and whether those are the same qualities most attractive to Carleton. Dartmouth wait-list, Carleton deny is not an implausible outcome, with Colorado and Whitman as likely admits. This is why we have multiple back-ups and do not take second-choice schools for granted.</p>
<p>Here is the data. While 20-40 points per section doesn’t seem like alot, add it up and its a 60 point difference. To compare, Princeton scores are only 20 points higher than Dartmouth’s, and 10 points higher for Stanford. And while 60 points itself doesn’t seem like a lot, it actually is pretty significant. So you have to look at the whole picture.</p>
<p>91% of Dartmouth’s class is in the top 10%
74% for Carleton</p>
<p>Avg SAT range at Dartmouth</p>
<h1>SAT Critical Reading: 670 / 770</h1>
<h1>SAT Math: 680 / 780</h1>
<h1>SAT Writing: 670 / 770</h1>
<p>Avg SAT range at Carleton</p>
<h1>SAT Critical Reading: 660 / 750</h1>
<h1>SAT Math: 650 / 740</h1>
<h1>SAT Writing: 650 / 750</h1>
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<p>Which data? For what year?
The data I cited above (which shows a narrower M & CR score spread than admitone’s) comes from each school’s 2008-2009 Common Data Set. As far as I know, that is the most up-to-date and authoritative source for this information. Perhaps admitone’s data comes from the College Board’s figures for the 2009-2010 entering class.</p>
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<p>True, and that includes the specifics of the OP’s situation (which seems to include a significant hook for Dartmouth, but not for Carleton). The statistical profile of the applicant pool changes a bit from year to year. Moreover, as I suggested, the stats for matriculated students may diverge significantly from the stats for admitted students. We cannot see the whole picture of applicant competitiveness. </p>
<p>Others have suggested that, if you have a fighting chance at Dartmouth, you’ll be admitted with ease to Carleton and the other 2 schools. Let’s turn that around. If Dartmouth is a reach even with the 4th-gen legacy hook, then a careful applicant should consider Carleton at least a low reach without any hook at all. It’s the #8 LAC in the USNWR rankings, with entering-class stats comparable to Hopkins, Haverford, Middlebury, or Cornell.</p>
<p>I don’t think you should apply anywhere you don’t want to be. That being said, I don’t quite understand what is the motivation behind crossing off Dartmouth other than its in a sports league.</p>
<p>Many things about DMouth fit the rest of your list (all very cool schools IMO). So I guess I’m just wondering-- what’s the real hesitation?</p>
<p>^^read the OP’s first post. I think the hesitation is the Geology program at Dartmouth is NOT as strong as at the other 3 colleges, which all have the Keck program tie in. That was my son’s opinion as well, which is one of the reasons he decided to say no to D and matriculate elsewhere.</p>