Capitalism vs. Communism: The Showdown

<p>I realize that. Ambiguity is problematic. I don’t know if it’s more problematic than black and white distinctions though. It seems that most views embrace either one or the other: either there are dichotomies or everything is completely ambiguous and one huge gradient. Both are, in their own ways, simple. They are extrema. Simplicity is important.</p>

<p>I don’t know - we have for instance gay vs straight, or now what we realize is a spectrum, with regards to sexuality. It seems that viewing things in the latter way is theoretically ideal, but then we come back to something I mentioned yesterday: the ideal might not be applicable to people (which is what one could say about communism for example). But maybe the same thing can be said about how we define what is meaningful life, maybe to the people it has to be simple (i.e fetus’ and everything must be considered life). I hope you understand what I said.</p>

<p>Gradients aren’t necessarily ambiguous though. It’s possible to consider contingencies while remaining clear.</p>

<p>Ok, that makes me hopeful then. It would be like how there is a very continuous spectrum of colors we perceive, yet we are able to subjugate the colors very nicely into a countable number of clearly distinct ones.</p>

<p>Billy, you haven’t established your basis for believing in universal human rights.</p>

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Just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t make them a bad person, and claiming that someone doesn’t believe in human rights if they’re pro-choice is offensive and detracts from your argument, since the fact that you have to resort to name calling shows that your argument itself is faulty. Everyone arguing on this thread seems to believe in human rights; you’re fighting for the rights of the unborn while we’re fighting for the rights of women, and just because one side wins out on either position doesn’t mean that any of us don’t care about the other side. Pro-choice people, myself included, often don’t support abortion; I’m in favor of more programs highlighting alternative options so that hopefully less women have abortions, I just think they deserve the choice. I’m assuming that you aren’t anti-woman, you just care more about the unborn. For both of us, one side wins out over the other based on our own morals, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t care about the other side or that we’re not human rights supporters. If you think someone’s ideas are wrong, please point out why instead of just insulting them.</p>

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Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, but he did do that. Post #199.</p>

<p>Harry once again refuses to commit.</p>

<p>It’s why he can’t get a girlfriend.</p>

<p>Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, but I disagree with whatever Harry agrees with.</p>

<p>[Economics</a> graduate program](<a href=“Economics graduate program”>Economics graduate program)</p>

<p>LaTina, name one positive effect the UN has ever had on this world. They’re a bunch of corrupt socialist pigs who are too ■■■■■ to do anything more than sanction Iran and N. Korea.</p>

<p>This is why I’m with Billy when it comes to abortion and the Declaration. The Declaration of Independence is a more deeply honorable document than anything the UN could ever dream of.</p>

<p>Oh and Billy, you say you bested the capitalists and so now they attack you on abortion? Well fyi I am both a capitalist and an ardent pro-lifer. So I’m with you on that point. Life begins at conception, plain and simple.</p>

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Argument from development is illogical; there is no developmental line as clear as conception. Further, a newborn infant is not “fully formed,” yet is it just for me to take a brick to its head?</p>

<p>I find it better to base our definition of humanity on objective science than on the subjective meandering “philosophical” exclusions of people who want to justify the killing of certain humans. The former is logical, the latter has been responsible for many genocides throughout history.</p>

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A woman may or may not be dying, but she probably will. You may be able to save her by putting a bullet through the head of her newborn baby. Do you do it?</p>

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Human = complete organism with the DNA of Homo Sapiens.</p>

<p>Life = living organism. Displays characteristics of life.</p>

<p>Pretty simple; biologists and geneticists agree.</p>

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My baby cousin is unable to sufficiently express his desire to live. Should someone be allowed to kill him? And if you don’t just mean by spoken language, I invite you to watch videos of the babies kicking away the abortion instrument. Seems like they want to live to me.</p>

<p>Curiously enough, if you murder a pregnant woman, it is considered double murder. So apparently the law feels that it’s only a human if you want it to be.</p>

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Me: Would you like to live?</p>

<p>Baby: Goo.</p>

<p>Me: <em>lifts brick</em></p>

<p>Is this just? Is this right?</p>

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Philosophically, I believe them to be innate. There is no way to prove this to be true, but I need not, as most of the world agrees with me already. And from a practical standpoint, it’s a superior system, and that seems to be what you’re concerned with.</p>

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Actually, it was a factual statement. She said she didn’t believe in rights innate to someone’s humanity (including the unborn), so that means she doesn’t believe in human rights. Look up a definition. Seems more like she believes in birthrights.</p>

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God, I wish they were socialist. And every time they try to do something to Israel, the US vetoes. It’s pretty damn annoying. Free Palestine!</p>

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I don’t know about that, but if we completely followed the ideas Jefferson wrote in it, the world would be a better place.</p>

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Glad you agree that the life of every human ought to be protected. What about the life of the poor?</p>

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<p>Billy, I know what you think philosophically. Why the need to repeat yourself? If I was you, I’d simply admit you irrationally believe in innate rights. I wouldn’t have a problem if you say that. I would have a problem if you say that and claim to be rational. </p>

<p>Also, explain to me how it’s a superior system? </p>

<p>Finally, billy can you please not confuse meta-ethics with normative ethics. You can say humans ought to have innate right because it helps X. But, you can’t say humans ought to have innate right because it helps X therefore humans have innate rights. And don’t appeal to the majority, that’s fallacious. The burden of proof isn’t on the side with the most supporters, it’s with the side that makes the claim.</p>

<p>Join me in my nihilistic world, you know you want to.</p>

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<p>unicef .</p>

<p>Communism. Sadly, it doesn’t work.</p>

<p>[How</a> Did Economists Get It So Wrong?](<a href=“http://www.sfb504.uni-mannheim.de/~grosskop/teaching/440/economics.pdf]How”>http://www.sfb504.uni-mannheim.de/~grosskop/teaching/440/economics.pdf)</p>

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Natural law gives rise to natural rights. Life is intrinsic in the natural state, and life is the superior state, so it ought not be ended unnecessarily or unjustly. Consciousness, being a unique and superior feature of life, should be perpetuated whenever possible.</p>

<p>I also have religious convictions that are neither irrational nor shared by you.</p>

<p>If it’s true that, in a communist society, all goods and services are equally distributed among those who create them, then what has to happen in order for you to get to that point. What “natural law” but force gives you the right, much less the justification, to take wealth from someone else and redistribute it? Furthermore, I respect that great innovators can exist in the lower socioeconomic classes, but our current economic system already has a means of projecting them to new heights. Why, under any circumstances, but for the sake of the very few, would we usurp the entire system. What if someone failed to cooperate any any circumstances? Your only option would be to destroy them. That’s not exactly working for the benefit of “all” is it? C’mon, we all know the world is more complicated than just the “greedy rich” and the “suffering, helpless, hardworking poor.”</p>

<p>Thinking about communism and capitalism as unified, extreme systems is overtly simplistic. In every functional communist system there has been some degree of capitalism; even in tribes, good were bartered, not given for free. Communism as a system pure is bound to fail when encompassing a large enough area, as statistically some people will always have more. You cannot distribute resources equivalently to all people, as one of the major foundations of economic theory is the flow of services and goods between people. With even amounts of resources, humans are less motivated to work and contribute, an extreme example of the welfare society.</p>

<p>Capitalism as a pure system is functional per se, but not ideal. As a pure system capitalism would inevitably cause all money to be solidified in the upper crust of society, as the adage of capitalism is that money makes money. In a capitalist system, it is much easier to make more money when you already have money rather than making it ex nihilo. This huge income disparity can be seen in both the modern-day “democratic” third-world nations and in pre-modern Europe and America.</p>

<p>Until the Progressive Era, American society could be thought of as purely practicing capitalist economics, as the government had little influence or control of any facet of the economic sector (as done by Andrew Jackson). This was similar to many other nations like England, which was also extremely industrialized. In both cases, especially in urban areas (as the rural areas were more into equality), the poor were confined into low quality tenements, and a huge disparity in income developed, eventually branching out to huge disparities in education, productivity, life expectancy… practically everything. The poor were getting poorer, and the rich were getting richer.</p>

<p>In the modern era, however, the economy has been in a balancing act for most first-world nations: not purely capitalistic, but hardly delving into communism. Mixed capitalism, a fusion of socialistic welfare theory and capitalist economics, is practiced in much of Europe, leading to rather tight economic regulation within a relatively free capitalistic system. Mixed systems tend however to be more inefficient, but are beneficial to those who are on the poorer end of the spectrum (and by regulating and destroying trusts, preventing possible economic shocks). Even in the US, where people are arguably “poor”, the poverty line-somewhere like $18,000 a year-is still quite ahead of the majority of average incomes of nations on Earth. While it can be argued that the prices in the US are higher (while not true, as Nairobi, Kenya is extremely expensive) than in those nations, the capitalist system practiced by the US can hardly have been said to have been a failure.</p>

<p>In conclusion, it is in my opinion that neither capitalism nor communism can truly function to best benefit society on a larger scale. While communism often does benefit the poorer spectrum, it also drastically lowers productivity, as seen in North Korea and Cuba. The best way for a society to function economically is either a mixed capitalist system or some other mode of unknown economic thought.</p>

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<p>About universal human rights, they are justified by the same principles that govern all of law, whether religious or secular. Rights should be given to all by the golden rule of “treat others like you want to be treated”; if you disrespect the rights of others, there is no proper justification why you should have those rights.
Rights like sexual orientation freedom, education, religion, and others are necessary for the betterment of society. If a person cannot choose their circumstances and their condition or practices are not harmful to others around them, it is not proper nor just to deprive them of said right.</p>

<p>Nice post. Seems important to have a good grasp of the general history, and the transitions, and so on. I think it’s especially important to recognize what influences government - not only people and their theories, but technological advancement.</p>

<p>I seriously wonder how much of the evolution of government is a result of the progression of time, and how much is the result of the progression of technology. I wonder, in other words, how government would change in a society where the level of technology did not change. </p>

<p>It seems more generally that changes in knowledge are what lead to changes in government. New knowledge is generated from preexisting knowledge. Even wisdom can be seen, maybe, as an extraction of more info from the same set of knowledge (thus why older people have classically been seen as more knowledgeable). Even in times where the basis of what one knew did not change in one’s own life time, one could expect to, perhaps, extract more and more new things out of that basis as they aged. </p>

<p>Anyways my point is maybe this: this sort of knowledge that is extracted from previous knowledge is becoming irrelevant I think: society is shifting too fast for it to be relevant, because by the time one has reached a novel conclusion, more knowledge has been added to the basis of knowledge they had used to reach the conclusion with. So their conclusion in process of being formulated becomes obsolete.</p>

<p>I hope that idea can be understood.</p>