<p>At the link you will find an infographic detailing student use of our Career Advising and Planning Services (CAPS) services on campus, as well as employment and graduate school outcomes post-graduation. Please note that the employment and graduate school information was taken just before graduation and thus far represents only the Class of 2011, and an updated figure will be posted once the Class of 2011 post-graduation survey is ready in a few months. Hope this helps provide a useful picture of how students are engaging internship opportunities, finding jobs, and faring in graduate fields after graduating from the College!</p>
<p>It seems UPenn does a better job. UChicago, catch up.
UPenn, class of 2011
<a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports/Class2011CareerPlans.pdf[/url]”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports/Class2011CareerPlans.pdf</a></p>
<p>UPenn, class of 2010
<a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports/Class2010CareerPlans.pdf[/url]”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports/Class2010CareerPlans.pdf</a></p>
<p>[Career</a> Services, University of Pennsylvania](<a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports.html#CP]Career”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports.html#CP)</p>
<p>No, it’s just that UChicago doesn’t BS its statistics. The Penn graphs only indicate about 80% of students (those who have indicated career plans), meaning that the other 20% unlisted likely don’t have career plans. Penn has chosen to pretend that these students don’t exist and therefore exclude them from the graph.</p>
<p>Penn also puts in additional categories to pretend like there’s student employment when there’s not, such as “part-time employment,” “additional coursework,” “short-term employment,” “self-employed,” etc. With Chicago’s data, there’s just full-time work, graduate school, or other.</p>
<p>Recently released data in other threads suggest that Chicago has 88% of its grads in full-time employment or graduate school within X months of graduation, which is 3rd in the country tied with Stanford and well ahead of Penn.</p>
<p>I might also note that this is Chicago’s data as of pre-graduation, meaning June 2011. Penn’s data is up to December 2011.</p>
<p>After a quick analysis, it actually looks like Chicago is significantly outperforming Penn. I wish Chicago would have waited to put out this data, though, until it actually updates student employment statistics to post-graduation levels like Penn has done. At first sight (and with a non-mathematical eye), the two data sets make it APPEAR that Penn is outperforming Chicago, even if the opposite is true. Chicago needs to be smarter about these kinds of things.</p>
<p>Phuriku:</p>
<p>I think this study (of Penn’s 2010 College Grads) is one of the best available, and one UChicago should emulate:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports/CAS_2010cp.pdf[/url]”>http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/undergrad/reports/CAS_2010cp.pdf</a></p>
<p>As you can see, 1183 of the 1546 graduating students completed the survey, or about 77% of the class. </p>
<p>According to CAPS data for the UChicago class of 2010:</p>
<p><a href=“Home | CareerAdv”>Home | CareerAdv;
<p>There were 1008 survey responders. I believe UChicago now graduates between 1200-1300 students a year, so the response rate was about 80% - not far off the Penn mark.</p>
<p>Further, the real important fact is that the Penn survey includes some really detailed analysis and statistics on what the various graduates went on to do - the numbers at specific graduate schools, paths based on certain majors, numbers placed with the biggest employers, etc. </p>
<p>Can UChicago do something similar? </p>
<p>On a related note, Phuriku, you need to relax in your support of UChicago. Again, I’m an alum, and I love the school, but I don’t know if I could say UChicago is “significantly outperforming” Penn, or any of UChicago’s other peer schools.</p>
<p>Fact of the matter is, whether 88% of UChicago grads are employed after graduation, or 83% of Penn grads, or whatever, these schools are all tightly clustered. You’d be advised to stop trying to make the gradations appear larger than they actually are. Unless you want to parse really finely, these will all be peer schools for quite some time.</p>
<p>An 88% vs. 83% employment rate is a significant difference. I’ve made no claims indicating that Penn/Chicago are not peer schools, only that Chicago is significantly outperforming Penn in employment (in terms of the statistically significant sense, not in the substantial sense; perhaps not a good notation to be used around people not used to such notation, but appropriate nonetheless considering that my explanations are usually analytic). It’s a correct assertion in any case, mathematically and intuitively.</p>
<p>I react strongly and rationally against people making strong assertions, as david05 and goldenboy often do. This doesn’t mean that I’m a strong supporter of Chicago’s superiority - in another thread, for instance, I’ve indicated how Chicago is truly inferior to peer schools in providing financial aid. So I think any assumptions that I am unfairly promoting Chicago are unfounded, especially considering that I always provide a rigorous analysis to support my opinions.</p>
<p>But in any case, a strongly worded analysis was necessary here since the statistics Chicago and Penn have provided are so misleading that it’s easy to be drawn to false conclusions. I’ll state once again: Chicago needs to be smarter about providing data sets that make it easy to misinterpret Chicago’s potential. If I saw that sheet as a prospective student, I would incorrectly infer that nearly 40% of students were unemployed after graduation, and I would start to greatly question my interest in such a school. As such, a stark defense is necessary, and I make no retractions.</p>
<p>And yes, you’re completely right that Chicago should emulate Penn’s data sets. Penn’s data sets have much more information, and Chicago’s employment information sheets are pathetic in comparison.</p>
<p>Additionally: The reason Chicago published these statistics is because, via the link you provided to CAPS Employment Information, this is the best employment statistics Chicago has had over the past 5 years, with 7 percentage points higher in full-time employment. This likely indicates that Chicago’s full-time work statistics will be over 90% this year, probably the best in the nation (beating Harvard, MIT, and Stanford’s statistics as of last year). This is a data point that Chicago should be incredibly proud of, but it shouldn’t be publicized (until we get the post-grad stats) for fear that people will misunderstand these statistics.</p>
<p>Phuriku:</p>
<p>You certainly employ stringent analytics and as much data as possible in your responses, and I think that’s much appreciated by everyone on this board.</p>
<p>At the same time, while a 88% vs. 83% gap in employment data might indicate “significant outperformance” statistically, qualitatively, the feels at the two schools are probably quite comparable.</p>
<p>Put another way, I think 97% of Penn students graduate in 6 years, whereas only 92% of UChicago grads graduate in 6 years. Perhaps statistically, there is a gap here, but in terms of the qualitative feel, the schools are quite similar.</p>
<p>When students are discussing choosing schools and the like, I imagine what can be significant statistical differences may not make any impression on a student’s actual experience at a school. Accordingly, in your analysis, you should perhaps make sure to keep that into account. Is a 88% vs. 83% gap in employment data going to affect or change a student’s experience at one top school vs. another? What about a 97% vs. 92% graduation rate gap?</p>
<p>From my perspective, these significant statistical differences don’t amount to much when projecting a student’s actual experience at a school.</p>
<p>Hmmm… 38% not planning or still looking. Does that seem a bit high in this economy? Or not?</p>
<p>Haha squeal read what Phuriku wrote - the 38% for the class of 2011 was in June 2011 - i.e. right at graduation. It’s not unusual for kids to not find jobs until later in the summer. Outside of the banking/consulting world, not a lot of places hire ~6-12 months in advance.</p>
<p>Well, if it’s any consolation, the Ivy League schools probably aren’t your competition (according to the Wall Street Journal.) But you’ll probably go to graduate school anyway and the Law School and Business School are highly-ranked by recruiters. </p>
<p>25 Hottest Colleges:
[The</a> Wall Street Journal Classroom Edition](<a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights)</p>
<p>[Job</a> Recruiters Prefer State Universities Over Ivy League Colleges - WSJ.com](<a href=“Job Recruiters Prefer State Universities Over Ivy League Colleges - WSJ”>Job Recruiters Prefer State Universities Over Ivy League Colleges - WSJ)</p>
<p>These schools produced the best graduates in each major, according to recruiters.</p>
<p>[School</a> Rankings by College Major – Job Recruiter Top Picks - WSJ.com](<a href=“School Rankings by College Major – Job Recruiter Top Picks - WSJ”>School Rankings by College Major – Job Recruiter Top Picks - WSJ)</p>
<p>Finance:
- University of Michigan
- NYU
- Berkeley
- Carnegie Mellon
- Texas A&M
- Penn State
- UCLA
- University of Wisconsin
- University of Pennsylvania
- University of Chicago
- University of Minnesota
- University of Florida
13 Columbia</p>
<p>Business / Economics:
- University of Michigan
- Ohio State
- Rutgers
- Harvard
- University of Pennsylvania
- Berkeley
- Carnegie Mellon
- Northwestern
- Virginia
- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
- Pennsylvania State University
- Duke
- Columbia
- NYU
- University of Chicago
- Stanford
- UCLA
- Washington
- Arizona State
- Notre Dame</p>