<p>Thanks bingle… We are in So Cal. We actually did attend an admission event Wednesday night here with Carelton, Bowdoin, SWarthmore, and Pomona. It was a great presentation but it didn’t start till 8:00 at night and so my S wanted to leave before he could ask questions because he had a ton of homework. So it wasn’t as informative as we would of liked. He did surprise me by really liking Bowdoin. He really only went to see Carleton, but came away adding Bowdoin to the list. I’m thinking it was all the talk and pictures of their outing club and the amazing trips and leadership stuff he could do. It definitely got his attention.</p>
<p>5boys, I’m wondering whether you came away from the info session with a better sense of whether Carleton (and perhaps Bowdoin) are appropriate reaches for your S in light of his GPA?</p>
<p>5boys, what is your son interested in? Carleton has a great outdoorsy science program as well. For example, in my bio lab the other day, we actually went out into the arb to collect specimens before we sequenced their DNA. And I know plenty of people who already love running in the arb and exploring a bit. Also, when the campus smells of Malt-o-Meal, it’s really something. </p>
<p>I’ve only been here for a month (I can’t early for soccer), but I absolutely love it here already. It sounds like your son would be a really good fit for Carleton and feel free to PM me (or just ask me here) with any other questions you might have!</p>
<p>Predicting admissions is always a tricky business and it’s so easy that I would always recommend applying if there is interest. However the schools you mention Carleton, Bowdoin, Swarthmore, and Pomona are all extremely competitive top ten liberal arts schools and without some sort of hook, admission with a 3.2 uw is very unlikely. Among those four Carleton is statistically the easiest, but self selection is a big factor at Carleton. A very high SAT will help but realistically admission is far more likely at somewhere slightly less competitive like Grinnell, Colby, or Macalester. By all means apply but if you go look at the admissions data at these schools very, very few students without big hooks get admitted to these schools with a 3.2 uw. I know numerous students with top GPA’s(3.75 uw) and SAT’s(2100+) who ended up at places like Whitman, Reed, Wash & Lee, and Colby.</p>
<p>Being a junior is a big help - if his gpa is higher this year then that upward trend will be favorable. Being from SoCal his chances at Pomona are probably less, but offset by having geography in his favor for Carleton and Bowdoin.
If he’s in Carleton’s database, then you’ll get invitations to local alum and admissions events and he can meet students and alums and get a feel for the fit. Good luck</p>
<p>niceday… no, my DS didn’t get to talk to anyone about his GPA because he wanted to leave early to do homework… not sure if they are straight up with that anyway, I doubt they would have discouraged him.
RP103… I’m glad your so happy at Carleton. It sounds like an amazing place… the Ad Rep had some beautiful slide shows of the school… snow and all. Why does the school smell like malt-o-meal??? As far as what my S might be interested in, he read a pamphlet at the info session that said they had a Bio/Philosophy double major. He was VERY interested in that.
Say… Yes we realize that Carleton will be a reach… he is not interested in Swarth, or Pomona, went to the info session to hear about Carleton. He ended up liking Bowdoin as well, but that is a REALLY huge reach, I think any school under 20% admit rate is just too unpredictable. We are visiting all the Maine schools this Spring, so if he likes Bowdoin, he might like Colby and Bates too, and they look pretty safe for him on our schools Naviance.
He has some great safe schools that he loves and also have EA, so if he gets into any of these early then, what the heck, why not apply to a few reaches like Bowdoin or Carleton.
Bingle… That is one of my points too. He is only a Junior and a lot could happen. He is taking some AP’s this year and has a very rigorous schedule. He seems to think that his grades are going to be great this year because he loves his classes and does better when he is more challenged. He will not be applying to colleges next year with a 3.2., probably more like a 3.5,3.6 and higher W. Also, if colleges want kids who have followed their passion to the ninth degree and are leaders, he is their kid. He has participated in numerous activities for many years and has reached leadership positions in all of them. His teacher’s all LOVE him too. He did get into The Mountain School this year which is VERY selective. Most kids that go to this school matriculate to very prestigious colleges, Carleton being one of them. I think it attracts the types of kids that would like Carleton. So, we will just have to wait and see.</p>
<p>5boys, there’s a Malt-O-Meal plant in town. I was bummed when we drove in to drop off ds that I didn’t smell a thing as we drove by, but on the way home I rolled down our windows and … mmmmm, chocolate.</p>
<p>Thanks YDS for clarifying the mystery.</p>
<p>5Boys - It’s really funny that you mention the double major, because I am actually in the dual bio-philosophy course right now! It’s my freshman seminar (s) - “Evolution of the Mind.” It involves a philosophy class called - you guessed it - Evolution and the Mind, where we read a lot about how the conscious mind evolved, and a bio class called Genes and Evolution where we focus more on how we evolved as a species and how genes and DNA replicate and are inherited and passed down. It’s really interesting - I’m already considering taking psych or intro to cognitive science now because I really love the class (although it is a TON of work…). I didn’t know it was also a potential double major combination, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all.</p>
<p>Seriously, if you or your son have any questions, feel free to ask and I’ll help as much as I can!</p>
<p>Technically, you can double major in any two majors, but I think it’s more common for people to have one major and a concentration (Carleton’s equivalent of a minor).</p>
<p>So I definitely graduated (from an extremely rigorous, Northern California prep school, blahblahblah) with a 3.2 and I got into Carleton. My grades tanked sophomore year of high school and they trended up from there. </p>
<p>Carleton was my reach school. I don’t have a “hook.” Statistically I shouldn’t be here. According to SAY I shouldn’t have gotten in here.</p>
<p>Maybe my college counselor made some calls. Maybe whoever was reading my essays was having a really good day. Maybe I was lucky. I don’t know.</p>
<p>I do know that I’m a damned good fit for Carleton. I work hard (and honestly, if you go to Carleton you should be prepared to fight for your B’s and even C’s), and I’m passionate about the things I do.</p>
<p>What matters to me is that I’m here and I’m doing great, despite everything on Naviance and College Confidential and Princeton Review and blahblahblah. At the end of the day, data are just data; and a reach means it might be within grasp. </p>
<p>I got up on my tiptoes for it.</p>
<p>Without more details it’s impossible to know how you came to be admitted. But things like being the first to college, having a tough social situation, or just a great original essay can make the difference. Only you know if any of those things apply to you. Keep in mind I encouraged the applicant to apply but it’s silly to claim that the admissions statistics are meaningless. If you started a club at Carleton for students with HS GPAs of 3.2 or lower who got admittted without hooks you would have a very small club indeed. Based on the published data few students will get admitted to top schools with 3.2 GPA’s without hooks(which include many things-sports,URM, unusual geographic location etc. etc.) In California it’s very hard to get into the 2nd tier UC’s with that type of GPA. But as I said the applications are so easy it makes no sense not to apply and see what happens.</p>
<p>In both its common data set and its class profile, Carleton only lists class rank, not GPA breakdown, so since 5boys school does not rank, if her son’s GPA is strong within the context of his school, he should be fine. He will for sure be waitlisted and has as good a chance as any of being admitted, if his test scores bear out with his PSATs, his extraordinary ECs and his LORs. Go for it!!</p>
<p>I also would not worry about getting to campus before applying. Do show interest, however, by attending any local events and arranging an alumni interview. i recall there being some questions on the supplement that will give an opportunity to show what your son knows about the school as well.</p>
<p>RP103… that class sounds amazing and I think my S would be in love. He loves Philosophy and Religion right now but does want to go on to med school to be a rural ER Dr., surprisingly Philosophy majors are highly wanted by med schools. I think my S would be in heaven at Carleton.
SDonCC… thanks again for all of your positive advice for my DS. You really helped me a lot over on the Grinnell forum. I’m almost positive he will apply to both schools. I have told him not to get too enamored with one school and to only apply to schools you know are fits and you will love to go there regardless of selectivity. You just don’t know what ad com’s are going to decide. He is a pretty level headed kid and he is not obsessed about college admissions. </p>
<p>SAY… Who knows why heymariko got admitted with her 3.2. Maybe there was something that stood out that was unique or different than the million other app’s that all look the same. Let’s say your a reader and you see for the millionth time… president of such and such club,mission trip to some poor country, Model UN, SAAD, volunteered in soup kitchen, etc. and then you come across an App that maybe does not have a 4.0 but they have been in Scouts for 11 years, attained Eagle Scout, been elected to Chapter Chief and Lodge Chief( very demanding positions that run the organization all over the county and at a national level) been awarded Vigil… highest and most prestigious award in scouting, Assistant Lifeguard to 4 years and now works as a beach lifeguard, has been all over the country working on trails and conservation efforts with the SCA and scouting. 750 hrs. community service. Was asked by the search and rescue team to volunteer with them after you saved a life of someone who fell down a cliff… and you were only 15 at the time.</p>
<p>Anyway, my point is that I think my S would stand out, he may not be admitted based on his GPA, but you have to wonder what colleges are looking for…</p>
<p>I agree with you but the top schools find a way to pick unique students who also happen to have top GPA’s and test scores. A few years ago the Harvard Dean went around the country telling everyone that the SAT had little meaning and shouldn’t count for much. Maybe so, but year in and year out the average student at Harvard has SAT’s around 2300. The schools very much have a baseline GPA and SAT/ACT that they use as a screening tool and above that minimum(2100-2200 and 4.2-4.4) then the grades and scores no longer matter. This is the only way the ives and other top schools could have such high average GPA’s and SAT/ACTs. But as I said before the standards are much lower if the student has a hook.</p>
<p>SAY, I’m sure that you don’t mean that a 4.2 is the baseline GPA, because, frankly, at most schools, that would be impossible. At my school, an A+ is a 4.3, so that’s the highest GPA unweighted, but nobody gets that.</p>
<p>“Anyway, my point is that I think my S would stand out, he may not be admitted based on his GPA, but you have to wonder what colleges are looking for…”
I think your son sounds like a perfect fit for Carleton. However, what you said about SADD, Model UN, etc. is because you think YOUR child is special. I have heard, just as easily, from a college rep, say, “lots of applicants are eagle scouts and captains of their sports team.” Your son has done tremendous things with Scouts - absolutely fantastic. But one can just as easily do the same level in Key Club or SADD - going all out and devoting yourself to a single activity.
Most of the applicants are top notch, and despite that fact that you think you or your child deserves to go to X School, there’s no way to say if he or she is better than the other applicants. I bet the admissions officers at Carleton could choose another equally qualified class of students with the people they reject/waitlist. I hope your son gets into Carleton.</p>
<p>That’s a good point, Sara, and if you look at the class profile Carleton provides the students they highlight have done some pretty unique and interesting things!! 5boys, I know we’ve talked alot, and one thing that occurs to me is that your son’s ECs will probably stand out more at schools which are less known for their outing activities, than for those that are. Not to say he shouldn’t be applying to those schools, but it might be good to have some schools that all the kids who love mountain activities, wouldn’t necessarily be applying to. These schools are building a class with kids who represent a diversity of interests!</p>
<p>SDonCC… That’s a good point about having him apply to schools without as much outdoor focus… but I just don’t think he would be as happy at one of these schools. The outdoors are VERY important to him. It’s almost like air to him. He did say he would apply to Grinnell though and they don’t really have an outdoors program per se. I really don’t think of Carleton as an outdoorsy school,do you?</p>
<p>The point of my above post was NOT to say, " Oh, my son is SO special and deserves to be admitted to XYZ school.’ It was to respond to heymariko’s post about not knowing why she got admitted with a 3.2. I think admissions rely heavily on stats, and for that reason my S probably won’t be admitted, but there are other factors that goes on in the admission discussions that we can’t predict or know about, and you COULD be admitted just because you are unique or different than most of the other applicants. I was not saying that SADD, MOdel UN are not great EC’s and could be pursed at the level that my S has done in scouts, but A LOT of kids are going to have that on their applications. Eagle Scout is also not unique, but maybe volunteering for a mountain search and rescue would be. Who knows. My S has a lot of other schools he is interested in and likes and are real safeties for him, so if he doesn’t get into XYZ schools, he won’t think it’s the end of the world. I’m not going to discourage him from applying to some top schools just because some stats say his GPA is not in their range.</p>
<p>Sara12…I agree with you that SAY is wrong about that baseline GPA. At my S’s school hardly anyone graduates with a W 4.0, let alone UW. But then 70% go on to top 20 schools… so just saying. It’s not as dire as she makes it appear. I think that you WOULD have to have that kind of a GPA if your HS was not very rigorous.</p>
<p>The exact GPA is unimportant and to be more precise I should have said above 3.75 uw. In our large city the typical top 10% GPA weighted from the top private and public hs are above 4.2. But the schools are well aware that different schools use different grading systems. My point is that the story about getting in without a hook with a 3.2 is not generally applicable. Moreover the applicant may have something less obvious that the school considered a type of hook. For instance I know a couple of children who seemingly gained admission to top five schools without a hook. Yet because I knew them well I was not surprised because each had a unique story. The first case the applicant’s mother had passed away at age 13 and she as the oldest had very much helped raise her three younger siblings. Also her came from a very middle class situation such that her father could not afford extra help. She was also a good athlete and had other good ec. Her GPA and scores were also fine but nothing different but she was accepted to Stanford. In her case the school was well aware of her personal situation and undoubtly wrote about it in her recs. In the other case the child had immigrated to the US at age 8 from South Africa(she was white.) Still she had to learn a new language and had a far different application from the typical high achieving U.S. student. The top schools get thousands upon thousands of applications with top GPA’s and scores and something truly unique makes a big difference.</p>
<p>This week, there are probably a number of new outdoor water-sports at Carleton. On fb, someone pointed out the Ultimate on a submerged field is great training and low impact when you dive.</p>
<p>I certainly wouldn’t describe Carls as uniformly outdoorsy, OTOH, they aren’t uniformly anything. It may depend a bit on what you mean by outdoorsy. Calreton has a large percentage of students who are avid Ultimate Frisbee players (generally an outdoor sport). Probably geo and bio majors are pretty uniformly outdoors-oriented, and in addition to CANOE on campus, there are CANOElets associated with Alumni Clubs. Best bet is for your son to try to meet as many Carls as he can and judge for himself if it’s the right amount and “type.”</p>