<p>My DS is a Junior and has shown some interest in Carleton. He is VERY outdoorsy.. i.e. Eagle Scout, Volunteer Fireman and Search and Rescue, Rescue and Open Water scuba certified, has done numerous trail restorations through scouts and SCA, has hiked all of CA highest peaks. He is also going to do a semester in Vermont at The Mountain School... a school that is on an organic farm. Does anyone have an opinion on whether Carleton would be a fit for him? We live in CA so don't know if we be able to visit. He is looking for a small LAC, with an intellectual, quirky, unpretentious student body. He is socially independent but loves to get involved in EVERYTHING!!! High PSAT scores 219, but only a 3.2 UW GPA from a top private prep.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated!!</p>
<p>Without some major hook getting admitted with such a low GPA will be difficult at any top school. Carleton’s admissions is unpredictable but he will need to have a very good explanation for grades that low. We also live in CA and with a GPA like that it’s very hard to get into any of the middle UC’s or even Cal St’s. Having said that some schools(not Carleton) are very impressed with SAT’s above 2300.</p>
<p>I do agree with an extent with what SAY has said (wow, that felt weird to type), but it also matters where that GPA places him within his class. If his prep school is one where the average GPA is aound your son’s, that will help him; however, if not, Carleton will be a reach for him.</p>
<p>Having said that, I am also a very outdoorsy person and I adore Carleton. All of the people I have met so far - and there have been lots! - have been, for lack of better word, quirky, unpretentious, and intelligent. I’ve conversed with people I met ten minutes before about Harry Potter and had genuinely interesting discussions about the meaning of the mind after my philosophy class. In addition, the campus’s 800-acre arboretum would be a huge plus to your son, as would the availability of canoes and kayaks to rent (I’m guessing). As a matter of fact, there’s actually a friend of mine from CA who spent a summer at an organic farm in VT! She seems to really like it here as well. I think that most of the student body is adventurous and fairly outdoorsy, and in terms of “fit” I think your son would do well here; it would just be getting in that would be difficult.</p>
<p>Thanks so much RP103… Yes, we realize that if he decides to apply to Carleton it will be a reach. That said at his school they don’t rank and hardly anyone ever graduates with an UW 4.0., 70% of class go on to a top 20 school. A 3.0 W with good SAT scores will get you into all the top UC’s here in CA. The school is VERY rigorous, NO grade inflation and very respected by colleges. He is only just starting his Junior year and a lot may change by this time next year. He also has over the top amazing EC’s with tons of leadership, although I know that won’t compensate for his GPA. His other schools of interest are Colorado College, Sewanee, Whitman, St. Lawrence, Reed, Lewis and Clark and Warren Wilson, so he has a good range of schools and only a few reaches. Carleton admission rep’s are actually coming to speak at his school next week, so I think we will ask them what they think about his GPA and whether it would even be worth his while to apply.</p>
<p>Sounds like your son would love CANOE house: [url=<a href=“http://orgs.carleton.edu/CANOE/]CANOE![/url”>http://orgs.carleton.edu/CANOE/]CANOE![/url</a>]</p>
<p>And yeah, the best thing you can do is use his high school’s college counselor to determine how applicants from the school fared in the past with his GPA and test scores. That will give you better perspective on the GPA thing than anything here.</p>
<p>Ds, an Eagle, just started there last week. The outdoorsy feel was one attraction for him – lots of IMs, and the Arboretum is beautiful.</p>
<p>I don’t want to sound negative but you are quite wrong about getting into UCLA, Berkeley, or even UCSD. They have their own grade point system and unless you fit a certain desired profile the standard for admission is over 4.0 UC weighted and a SAT of 2100. The UC admission system legally discriminates against children with highly educated parents from top prep schools in favor of immigrants who are the first in the family to attend college. Just wait unitl you see the application where they ask if you came from a single parent family or if the parents have been in jail. The top UC’s are the most unlikely schools to forgive a low GPA unless the applicant fits the desired profile. On the other hand UCLA and UCB are the easiest top schools to enter if you go the community college route. Then the slate is wiped clean and applicants that could never have been admitted as freshmen transfer in large numbers. If you look the admission rate of junior transfers it’s like 40% versus 0-15% at other top schools. UCLA and UCB are fine schools with superb graduate schools but a large percentage of their undergraduates could not have gained admission to virtually any top 15 schools. The uniformity of the undergraduates at say U of Chicago, Wash U, GT, ND, or any ivy is significantly above the top UC’s because of the community college back door. I’m not really opposed to this since they are public schools but not many people are aware of the two tier admissions system. Emory also has a similar back door admissions route. The best chance of admission to a top school will be at somewhere like Grinnell, Whitman, Washington and Lee, or Macalester. Each of these schools suffers from either name recognition(lack) or location and are impressed by very high SAT’s which improve their stats. Now everything is completely different if your son is say a recruited athlete or has some other hook. Good luck.</p>
<p>I’ll add my voice to the choir arguing that your son sounds like a great fit for Carleton. In addition to CANOE ([About</a> CANOE](<a href=“http://orgs.carleton.edu/CANOE/about.html]About”>http://orgs.carleton.edu/CANOE/about.html))
he may also want to look at Farm House ([Carleton</a> College: Admissions: Farm House](<a href=“http://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/locations/farm_house/]Carleton”>http://apps.carleton.edu/admissions/locations/farm_house/) and
[Farm</a> Club](<a href=“http://orgs.carleton.edu/farm/]Farm”>http://orgs.carleton.edu/farm/)) and the Environmental Studies program ([Carleton</a> College: Environmental Studies](<a href=“http://apps.carleton.edu/curricular/ents/]Carleton”>http://apps.carleton.edu/curricular/ents/)). </p>
<p>I personally don’t agree with the negativity about his chances for admission here. If the rigor of his classes and the rigor of his school are what you say, I don’t at all see his GPA as exclusionary. He’s obviously a very bright, independent minded kid with some deep seated and aggressively pursued personal passions. That triad should be pretty transparent to the adcoms and defines EXACTLY the type of student Carleton wants to see fill its freshman class.</p>
<p>SAY… I am in agreement with you on everything… my poor niece graduated at the top of her class at a huge public in CA. Great SAT’s too, but did not get into her top choice UC’s. All the english learners that she tutored DID get in. So, I’m really glad that my S has no desire to apply to any UC’s or CAL State schools. It is not what he is looking for. But, based on the naviance from our school A LOT of kids did get into UCLA, UCSD, USB with lower than 3.5 GPA’s. I just thought it was because the kids from CA public’s are floundering at their colleges and 70% need remedial english and math before they even start. I think they have had evidence from my S’s school that the kids are VERY prepared for college… even the lower end GPA kids. They don’t even read literature books any more in some of the public HS’s. It’s really a disgrace and, why we sacrifice a lot to send our kids to a private school… we are NOT rich.</p>
<p>Youdon’tsay,mflerity, and 1190… Thanks for your insight and your link to the CANOE and FARM club. I will have my S look them up. To me Carleton sounds like a perfect fit for him. His GPA issues stem mostly from Freshman year… he had a mush better year last year. He will never be a straight A student though. He just has too many interests and responsibilities related to his EC’s to spend an enormous amount of time studying. He is the kid that all the teacher’s LOVE though and comment numerous times on how much he adds to the class discussions and how the class wouldn’t be the same without him in it. Although as they are writing this they are also marking his B or B+. LOL!!! So, he has a lot going for him and he is really looking for fit above all else. He is just is a true “loves to learn for learning sake” kid who isn’t overly obsessed about his grades… much to his mothers dismay… :((</p>
<p>If the lower grades are freshman year and there’s an upward trend, then he should be good – especially with the great LORs it sounds like he’ll get. Good luck! </p>
<p>Here’s info on the organic farm at Carleton: [The</a> Carletonian: News](<a href=“The Carletonian – Carleton College's student newspaper since 1877”>The Carletonian – Carleton College's student newspaper since 1877)</p>
<p>I would visit if you can. It’s easy to do Carleton/Grinnell/Mac in a three-day visit. I’m actually going to see a regional adcom tonight and will ask how important a campus visit is. Of the seven kids at ds’s school who were admitted, I know at least six of them visited. I can’t help but think that, if you’re coming from far away, a visit shows a real commitment to the school. Anyone have any thoughts on that?</p>
<p>Yds… let me know what the adcoms say. I will also ask when they come visit our school next week. That’s good news about the 3 day Grinnell, Carleton, Mac visit. That would be doable. I just have to figure out a time. We were planning on doing some visits on his Spring Break when I go out to Vermont, but as time goes by most of the East coast schools are not looking like a fit for him. I really think you need to visit LAC’s. They are all so different and when we visited some PNW schools in Spring he was VERY definite about what he liked and didn’t like. Maybe we will just fly out to do the mid west schools. I’ll be running this by him as soon as I can get his attention long enough… Junior year URGH!!!</p>
<p>5boys, it sounds like your son has a lot to offer Carleton or wherever he ends up. One thing I learned watching my son go through the admissions process, is that it’s all about putting your best foot forward. I felt from the beginning that my son would be competitive everywhere, but that none of the selective schools he applied to would be a sure thing. In the end, I think the admissions officers were much more interested in his strengths than in the B- he got in honors chemistry his sophomore year.</p>
<p>Thanks sunmachine for the words of advice and encouragement!! I actually think that he will have many great choices next year and will probably have a hard time deciding. I also think he has a lot to offer to the right school and he wouldn’t be happy at a school that was only impressed by grades. I now know… after raising 5 boys, that the grades you get in HS have no correlation with how you will perform in the real world. It has more to do with character, work ethic and for the most part, great people skills. My S has these qualities in abundance.</p>
<p>5boys, my freshman son at Carleton had average grades freshman and sophomore years of high school but really shone his Junior and Senior years. I’m not sure what got him going, but I’m glad he did. So if you look on Naviance, you might wonder how he got into Carleton, because the statistics don’t show his last two years separately. His interests and leadership are in completely different areas than your son but he loves the Carleton campus and the huge, beautiful Arboretum, but he’s most impressed the people he’s met in his one week there!</p>
<p>Thanks for the encouragement neumes… My S is already saying he feels really good this year and expects to get a lot better grades. I am just hoping for a few A’s…LOL!!! It is his first experience with taking AP’s and he is loving his classes and working hard… as much as this is a surprise to his mom. I’m feeling positive about an upward trend. I think one of the reasons that he has had this turnaround is that we visited a few schools last Spring and now he REALLY wants to try his best to be a competitive applicant. Every other part of his application shines… he just needs to push those grades up a little bit to not get his application throw in the reject pile before they get to all of his amazing EC’s.</p>
<p>Not sure what your S is into academically, but if he does happen to end up at Carleton, he needs to take at least 1 geology class. This is not optional for someone who seems to love the outdoors as much as he does. About 3/4 of the classes in the department have weekly outdoor labs (the rest are generally in the middle of winter, not exactly conducive to outside classwork). Plus, taking even 1 class gets you the option to go on the department trips, which are week-long camping trips to such fabulous places as the Black Hills, Ozark Mountains, Lake Superior, Great Salt Lake, and so on and so forth. Here’s a link to the course listings: [Carleton</a> College: Geology: Courses](<a href=“http://apps.carleton.edu/curricular/geol/courses/]Carleton”>http://apps.carleton.edu/curricular/geol/courses/)</p>
<p>Even my Poli Sci/IR daughter took Geology!</p>
<p>Couldn’t help but share this. The geology field trips are incredible treats, but you really don’t have to venture too far from Carleton’s own backyard to experience some very special natural treats. </p>
<p>[Carleton</a> College: Carleton News: Features: Whooping Cranes Make Rare Visit to Northfield](<a href=“http://apps.carleton.edu/news/features/?story_id=665121]Carleton”>http://apps.carleton.edu/news/features/?story_id=665121)</p>
<p>5Boys - if you’re in the Bay Area there’s an upcoming admissions reception in Menlo Park. In addition to an admissions officer, there will be fellow prospies, recent grads, and alumni admissions reps. PM me if you want details.</p>