Carleton v. Bowdoin

College Search & Selection
1

<p>I'm not sure which forum to post this in. My decision has come down to these two schools essentially. I'm looking for opinions, advice. I want to double major in math and government (Bowdoin) or political science (Carleton). I see myself eventually getting a PhD in public policy or political science. Service is extremely important to me, and the common good really appeals to me. Bowdoin has always been my top choice, but I don't see it on any lists for PhD productivity. Does that just mean less of my peers will be getting PhD's? Or will I have a harder time when I go to apply to grad school as a student at Bowdoin? Thoughts would be appreciated. I'm very torn... I love both of the schools, and I never thought I would be in this situation! I'm visiting Carleton, but I don't know if I am going to get to visit Bowdoin.</p>

<p>Bowdoin
Pros
-fantastic gov't department
-COMMON GOOD!
-faculty scholar award
-maine
-dream school
-food, dorms, quality of life
cons
-not on PhD productivity list
-semester system</p>

<p>Carleton
pros
-high PhD productivity
-trimester system (more classes overall, less classes taken at once)
-easier to fly to twin cities than to Portland
cons
-minnesota
-too "quirky" for me?</p>

2

<p>These two institutions’ respective PhD productivity rates reflect not their ability to produce scholars, but their respective student bodies’ career choices. In other words, if you went to Bowdoin and decided to become a professor, I am absolutely certain that you would get all the institutional assistance you needed.</p>

3

<p>Okay, thanks Ghostt. Is the semester system too stressful? I’m a bit afraid of that balancing 4 classes a semester would be a lot harder than 3 classes a semester at Carleton. I think the work itself would be about the same difficulty level, but I think perhaps Bowdoin would be more stressful… thoughts?</p>

4

<p>you will find Bowdoin’s PhD productivity in the areas of Science and Engineering here:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/nsf08311.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf08311/nsf08311.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

5

<p>The two schools are very similar. With good grades, you’ll have no problem getting on the PhD track. Even though both schools are small and less well known, they are very highly regarded by graduate schools.</p>

<p>It sounds like you’ve thought about the hard stuff-- maybe it’s time to make your decision based on lifestyle? If you bail on the PhD (and many do), do you see yourself living in Chiciago? Pick Carelton. If you think you’d like to end up in Boston/New England, pick Bowdoin. Again, both have great reputations, but the alumni networks are stronger in different areas of the country. If you go to Carleton, your college friends will by and large be from the midwest. If you go with Bowdoin, you’ll find that many of your friends will be from New England. Is the distance from your home to these schools equal (flying vs. driving)? </p>

<p>It sounds like you’re leaning toward Bowdoin. I really, REALLY suggest you visit. It’s a love it-or-hate-it school.</p>

6

<p>Hi sarah,</p>

<p>First, congrats for having two great choices! My son is a first year at Carleton, but he was also accepted at (and really liked) Bowdoin.</p>

<p>I agree with Ghostt about PhD production rates - both colleges are extremely well respected in academic circles and will provide the help you need if you wish to become a professor. Carleton is extremely strong in math and political science, and Bowdoin’s government department is supposed to be fantastic.</p>

<p>Is financial aid a conderation?</p>

<p>A bit about trimester vs. semester. Academics at Careton are intense, and sometimes stressful, and this has a lot to do with the trimester system. Although you only take three classes, those classes are instense and move very quickly. Every term is only ten weeks, so you are always only a few weeks away from mid term or final exams. My son, at least, has also had to write (and re-write) several papers for each of his classes, in addition to doing numerous projects and problem sets. My son really likes the trimester system, but I think you would be mistaken if you believe that it is less stressful than taking four classes a semester.</p>

<p>As for your other pros and cons, most of them are pretty subjective. My son really likes the town of Northfield and the close access to the cultural opportunities of the Twin Cities. He also just liked the “feel” of Carleton more than Bowdoin, but, again, that’s just one person’s view. </p>

<p>If I were you, I would make my decision after visiting both schools if at all possible. Do an overnight, and sit in on classes. Talk to as many students at both schoos as possible. This is a big decision and a big investment of both your time and your money, so it’s good to make this effort. Rest assured, though, that you can’t go wrong at either place. Good luck!</p>

7

<p>“If you go to Carleton, your college friends will by and large be from the midwest.”</p>

<p>Actually, most of my son’s friends at Carleton are from both coasts and abroad. That’s just how it’s worked out so far for him, though…</p>

8

<p>Thank you sunmachine and ExAdmitCounselor. I’m definitely visiting Carleton, because I’ve never been there, but I don’t know if a Bowdoin visit will work out. Carleton did give me more FA than Bowdoin, but my parents are letting me pick either school. I’m also (slightly) tempted to stay on the waitlist for Williams, but I don’t think that I will. Although Bowdoin and Carleton are about equal distance from where I live, flights to Carleton are much easier.
Both of your thoughtful replies have been very helpful. I do see myself living in New England, definitely, and Maine has a very special place in my heart. I appreciate the insight into the trimester system - I can now imagine how frequent midterms and finals could be quite stressful.
Thank you again for your help.</p>

9

<p>Both are great schools! Congratulations for getting admitted - you clearly worked hard in high school.</p>

<p>I’m a first-year at Carleton and I hope I can help you out a bit:
Regarding the trimester system, I agree that it is somewhat intense to have the work of a semester crammed into ten weeks of study. To be honest, I think it depends a little bit on the course that you are taking: calculus II in 10 weeks, for example, was a lot more intense for me than a 10-week PoliSci or Philosophy course (although all required their fair share of work). Personally, I like the trimester system. I’m looking to study abroad next winter, and I’m excited at the prospect of still being here spring and fall terms.</p>

<p>When I made the decision to attend Carleton, I was also worried that it might be too “quirky” for me as well. By and large, though, this is (in my humble opinion) a slightly outdated stereotype. I think it’s more that Carleton has a very open and accepting environment, so people are a little more open about small “quirky” type traits that were potentially repressed in high school (i.e., my roommate loves Dr. Who, one of my friends sings opera, etc.). I think that at any good school, you’re going to find your fair share of “nerds” who have a few unique traits, but the vast majority of Carls I’ve met are refreshingly normal, genuine, and accepting. I really like the social atmosphere here, and I’ve been able to make friends all across campus.</p>

<p>I’d also disagree that the majority of your friends will be from the MidWest. I feel like the majority of people I meet are either from California, Minnesota, Chicago, New York or Massachusetts - a pretty diverse mix of people. On my floor alone we have several international students, and students from every region of the U.S.</p>

<p>In terms of Minnesota weather - yes, the winters are harsh. I don’t really mind, since I grew up in New England, but basically it starts snowing in December and the snow doesn’t melt until early to late March. To be honest, there are a few weeks where it’s extraordinarily cold, but I found it to be bearable and it makes the beautiful spring all the more exciting. Also, it’s sunny for most of the days, which helps even when it’s cold.</p>

<p>Is there anything else I can tell you about Carleton? Best of luck with your choice!</p>

10

<p>Trying not to hijack or anything, but reesezpiecez103, your comment worries me. Most of the people I know love Doctor Who and/or sing opera. (Seriously. That’s not even a slight exaggeration). Does “normal” at Carleton cease to be a good thing? I mean, open and accepting are great traits for a school, but the quirkiness the reason I’m looking at Carleton in the first place.</p>

11

<p>It’s quirky in the sense that no one (with a few exceptions, there are jerks everywhere) will judge someone for being weird. </p>

<p>I made this exact same choice last year (I ended up staying on the Williams waitlist till the bitter end though haha) and I chose Carleton. It was definitely a fit kind of deal. Bowdoin was too preppy.</p>

12

<p>Drought and reesexpiecez: I am attracted to Bowdoin because I love the Common Good. How many people are actively involved in service at Carleton? Does service and friendliness permeate the campus?</p>

13

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<p>Sorry, I guess those were bad examples. It’s just that I went to a high school that was very preppy and judgmental, so at Carleton, people are extremely open and non-judgemental. Those traits seem quirky to me because if you had announced in my high school that you were going to go watch Dr. Who, you’d be made fun of (literally, that happened to a friend of mine), so everyone seemed the same. At Carleton, you can be whoever you want and you won’t be judged. My friends and I sometimes make weird jokes or noises and no one blinks; it’s just part of Carleton’s character. </p>

<p>I don’t really know what you mean when you ask if “normal ceases to be a good thing,” but I’m sorry if my comment worried you…Carleton is a very unique place, I just feel like people get tired of hearing the work “quirky” all the time, like it’s the only characteristic that describes the student body. Carleton students are, for the most part, open, accepting, friendly, and non-judgmental; most of them will occasionally say weird things or have weird habits, and that’s absolutely fine and accepted. You meet all types here.</p>

<p>To the OP - I don’t know much about the Common Good, but Carleton has the ACT center (Acting in the Community Together) which runs various community service projects - I think there are at least 30 different service organizations, probably more. One of the most popular forms seem to be tutoring - I know two or three freshman on my floor alone tutor local Northfield elementary, middle, and high school students. However, there are many other active groups - the Minnesota Public Interest Research Group (MPIRG), the Haiti Justice Alliance, Best Buddies (again, two people on my floor are involved with this), Carls Against Cancer, and the Humane Society volunteers are all popular groups as well. I’m a member of the Northfield Special Olympics, which means we go to “practice” with the athletes once or twice a week. I think you will very much find that community service at Carleton is as active as it is at Bowdoin. For more information, you might like this link:
<a href=“https://apps.carleton.edu/campus/act/actprograms/[/url]”>https://apps.carleton.edu/campus/act/actprograms/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

14

<p>Thanks! I’ll look into community service at Carleton. Right now, I’m trying to decide whether or not to take a trip to Carleton. It’s very expensive to visit colleges, especially since my two choices are so far away from each other.</p>

15

<p>sara12, unfortunately, if you only visit one the schools, that will be the school that you will decide to attend…</p>

<p>any chance you can try to visit both?</p>

16

<p>Yes. I am visiting both Bowdoin and Carleton. A big issue was also missing school - I have to take four days off because they are so far away. I’m nervous about the decision and excited to have this fantastic opportunity.</p>

17

<p>I’d agree with most of the comments above. Carleton’s student body is deeply involved in service work and post grad have some of the largest numbers nationally pursuing jobs with non-profits, the Peace Corps, TFA …</p>

<p>I wouldn’t see Bowdoin’s lower ranking in PhD productivity numbers as something that at all suggests a weakness in the eyes of graduate school. What it does suggest is a more pre-professional student body there, something I believe to be true. I’d venture to argue that your interests and goals are probably more consistent with Carleton. Having said that, I do believe both are great schools that would serve your needs well.</p>

18

<p>Sara12, All your original reasons for thinking hard about Bowdoin are important ones and a visit would probably confirm them. Both Carleton and Bowdoin are great schools, but they do feel different. The Common Good is throughout the bones of the place at Bowdoin, so one of the reasons the PhD track looks different is that a number of Bowdoin students in the social sciences and humanities spend a year or two or three between Bowdoin and grad school in some sort of service work (e.g. peace core) before heading off to the PhD. I know Bowdoin kids headed off to great places for PhDs this year – Harvard, Columbia, etc. Lots of great stuff going on in the gov dept at Bowdoin and the math dept also has some really interesting people. There are also all sorts of curricular and co-curricular opportunities directly connected to Maine from service opportunities, to courses, to the outing club. It is a beautiful campus in a stunning location.</p>

<p>You should visit both, go to classes, see the campus and imagine yourself at each. Bowdoin students, parents, alumni really love the place. Good for you for having great choices. Go U Bears.</p>

19

<p>Try to visit Bowdoin. Both schools have different vibes and are in different parts of the world. Figure out whether you want to go to school in the midwest or in New England. Bowdoin is a 30 minute drive from a big city, Portland, and a 15 minute drive from Freeport, a shopping outlet center. In a year or 2 there will be a train connecting Bowdoin’s campus basically to Boston! </p>

<p>I have friends from Minnesota at Bowdoin who didn’t even think of going to Carleton because they didn’t want to go to school in Minnesota. But it depends on where you are from, and where you want to live.</p>

20

<p>Carleton really benefits from its location. Northfield is a charming historic town of around 20,000 that truly embraces its two local colleges. “Minnesota-nice” is evident everywhere. School events are open to townspeople and the new arts union, located at the edge of downtown, will include multiple theaters with the intent of including all of Northfield in student productions. </p>

<p>Minneapolis/St. Paul are about 40 miles away for big-city needs. With a population of around 1.5 million, around 3 million in the extended metropolitan area, the Twin Cities are truly big. Portland is fairly convenient to Bowdoin, but don’t know that I’d call it a big-city. It’s population sits in the range of 60-70,000.</p>

<p>Many leave Carleton and Minnesota after four years for the coasts or warmer pastures. But all appreciate the warmth and the welcome they experienced while there.</p>