<p>I posted this on the end of a long thread that is quite old, so thought I'd look for some input here.</p>
<p>Here is a thread.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/carleton-college/745166-carleton-vs-davidson.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/carleton-college/745166-carleton-vs-davidson.html?</a></p>
<p>Thanks for that thread. It was great. Other opinions are welcome, too.</p>
<p>Carleton is a much better school, unless you don’t like cold weather.Students are happier, more selective, etc etc.</p>
<p>Also, what major are you looking at?</p>
<p>At Carleton you’ll find a student body somewhat more academically accomplished, more liberal, less traditional, more individualistic. The school will be measurably stronger in the sciences with similar strengths in the humanities and social sciences. Davidson has a Greek scene that, although non-traditional, not as divisive/exclusive as stereotypes would suggest, would still never find a home at Carleton - just not in the nature of this campus’ vibe.</p>
<p>While I’d agree with OldbatesieDoc about how happy Carls are as a group, don’t know that they’re necessarily any happier than students at Davidson. Different strokes… Find your fit.</p>
<p>The major is Classics with a math focus.<br>
Thanks for the input.</p>
<p>
I agree. I’ve lived about 15 minutes from Davidson for over 20 years, and I’ve yet to come across a single student or graduate disgruntled with his/her experience. </p>
<p>Furthermore, the education provided at Davidson seems quite comparable to that I received at Duke. As I’ve often stated on CC, my alum interviewer for Chicago was a professor at Davidson who attempted to convince me that Davidson was the superior undergraduate choice. </p>
<p>burry, I have personal experience with the Classics department at Davidson, as I’ve participated in their excavations in Cyprus. I can firmly say that the professors are fantastic. It is one of the smaller departments at Davidson but very spirited and active. </p>
<p>In terms of faculty size, the Classics departments at Davidson and Carleton are equal in size, with each having 3 full-time philologists and 1 full-time archaeologist. The program at Davidson, however, appears to be much more popular. It graduated 8 Classics majors last year compared to Carleton’s 2, and the lack of a chapter of Eta Sigma Phi at Carleton is quite telling.</p>
<p>warblersrule86:</p>
<ol>
<li>“…the lack of a chapter of Eta Sigma Phi at Carleton is quite telling”</li>
</ol>
<p>Forgive my ignorance about Classics in general, but this classics honor society has a pretty limited presence - Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Dartmouth, Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona, etc. have no chapters. I have trouble seeing the lack of involvement by Carleton as in any way “telling” other than suggesting it’s part of the rule, not exception, among elite institutions in this regard.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The number of graduates you’ve posted confuses me. Carleton does not list the number of students majoring in the department and it’s never independently listed in any school’s Common Data Set. </p></li>
<li><p>The number of faculty posted also seems confused - Carleton’s listing appears larger than you’ve suggested (and larger than at Davidson). Carleton offers 42 courses in the department, 39 at Davidson. In addition, as a supporting cast, Judaic Studies/Hebrew is available at Carleton, not so at Davidson, with Arabic, though small at both institutions, larger at Carleton. Of interest, one of Davidson’s only four full-time faculty holds his BA from…Carleton.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>
All of the Ivies have strong and established Classics programs. Most LACs (i.e. most except Holy Cross and Bryn Mawr) do not. While the presence of Eta Sigma Phi is not necessarily indicative of a strong program, it is usually a sign at a LAC that there is a critical mass in the department - otherwise it would not be offered. I could have phrased it differently, perhaps, as the presence of a chapter tells more than the absence of one.</p>
<p>
IPEDS</p>
<p>
I typically ignore visiting professors. While they occasionally offer interesting courses, they are usually hired only to teach the first year of languages or to cover for a tenured faculty member on sabbatical for a semester or year. For letters of recommendation or as future thesis/research advisors, they are highly unreliable. Visiting professors and adjuncts, unlike tenure-track professors, are paid per course. Some supplement their income with outside jobs (teaching or otherwise), and nearly all are devoting as much time as possible to research in order to get a better job elsewhere. Simply put, they are generally less likely to have the time and inclination to work closely with students than tenured faculty.</p>
<p>Visiting professors are typically young and unknown in the field. Note that Yatsuhashi (whom I know quite well from Duke, actually) is still ABD.</p>
<p>That said, you are correct that Carleton’s additional visiting professors would give it an edge over Davidson, since the number of tenured faculty at each is the same. I’m too lazy to look it up again, but I think Carleton had 2 or 3 visiting while Davidson had 1.</p>
<p>
While true, that does not improve a Classics program any more than a nice geology program helps a biology program. Arabic is no more related to Classics than Hungarian, and Hebrew is linked to Classics only through Septaguint studies. Davidson offers the much more relevant Hittite, which Carleton and indeed all colleges in the western hemisphere except 7 do not, but I wouldn’t hold that up as proof of superiority.</p>
<p>to burry-- I know your question was about Carleton and Davidson, two outstanding schools, but since another poster mentioned Holy Cross I thought I might offer some information on that school, my alma mater. Holy Cross has a particularly strong classics program. Here’s an extract fropm HC’s website: </p>
<p>Students of the Classics investigate all aspects of the cultures of ancient Greece and Rome from the beginnings of Greek civilization up to the fall of the Roman Empire, a period that includes the rise of Athenian democracy in the fifth century B.C. and the cultural splendor of imperial Rome in the first and second centuries A.D. Many of our Department’s courses teach the ancient languages, Greek and Latin. These classes combine close reading of ancient texts with interpretation of their cultural and literary significance. Our Department provides a wide range of approaches to the discipline, with courses regularly offered in ancient literature, art and archaeology, history, and philosophy.</p>
<p>The Classics department is widely regarded as one of the finest undergraduate programs in the country. The 10-member full-time faculty (which includes two archaeologists) is one of the largest at a liberal arts college and supports an unusually broad range of courses.</p>
<p>The department teaches Greek and Latin through a variety of instructional methods to enhance the cultural background and language skills of all its students. Classes combine close reading of ancient texts with interpretation of their cultural and literary significance. The department’s St. Isidore of Seville Computer Lab offers students many new research resources.</p>
<p>Integrating advanced information technology with traditional modes of investigation, the Classics department gives students a comprehensive view of the ancient civilizations of Greece and Rome. In addition to pursuing individual research projects, majors have the opportunity to participate in one of the College’s study abroad programs in Athens and Rome.</p>
<p>Questions about the Classics Department? Call us at 508-793-2547 or e-mail <a href=“mailto:classicsdept@holycross.edu”>classicsdept@holycross.edu</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses. I appreciate the Holy Cross info and know it is a great Classics program. My son is coming out of a Jesuit high school, though, and was not looking to replicate that particular part of his education. In addition, the Jesuit colleges typically have more distribution requirements something he wasn’t interested in.</p>
<p>Warbler, I am so glad to hear the positive statements about Davidson. My son visited there after he was recently admitted and “loved” it. He really enjoyed the variety of students he met. I was slightly concerned about athletes and frats, but neither posed a problem. I liked how each kid on the dorm hall seemed to be seen as an individual although each had different interests. The info on Classics, though, is critical. I was afraid a program that small might not offer him what he needs compared to a bigger program. What do kids take as they advance beyond the courses offered – independent study? Feel free to PM me with any additional info if you so desire. My other concern is grade deflation. My son is a very strong student, but who isn’t at Davidson? He loves to learn but I’d hate to see him trying for grad school later and getting dinged with a lower GPA than he would have elsewhere.</p>
<p>Davidson does have one very quirky advantage over all other colleges: a campus laundry that does the laundry free for every student. The school decided may years ago that it would do students laundry to give them more time to study. So, they simply drop off their laundry at the facility (named after one of the women who worked there for decades) and pick it up when it’s done.</p>