Smart, CMU is certainly not a big party or sports school, but there are opportunities to do things other than study there. I was on the swim team and played intramural water polo, and I had many friends play IM sports or club rugby. There are fraternities and sororities on campus, which today are more focused on service than chugging beer, but they do offer a sense of community and organized fun.
Like you, we are concerned about the stress level at CMU, largely because it had a reputation for not being student friendly in the 1980s. The school seems to be addressing the issue by focusing on student support, graduation rates and freshman return rates. One of the reasons for our follow-up visit will be to speak with students at my old fraternity about workload, student life, etc.
How does CMU compare with UC Berkeley in this sense, any insight from the people who have knowledge of both colleges? Especially CS and engineering majors. From what I heard, the intensity levels seem to be both higher than MIT
Agreed, but I saw more rejections than (letting down gently) WL. I did see several outright legacy rejections ED. IMO they did these kids a favor. At least they didnât string them along and kept them from moving on with another plan.
Thatâs good to hear. Sheâs usually the designated driver and not the beer chugging type though she wants to attend the party⊠I guess she will be a better position to make a decision after visiting the campus and interacting with current students.
Does anyone here have recent first hand experience with the engineering programs at Carnegie Mellon and Case Western (for example, did one of your kids go to CMU and the other went to CWRU)? My son is trying to decide between these two schools for MechE, or maybe another major in the sciences like BioChem, and it would be great if someone familiar with both schools could provide a real-life comparison.
Based on research and school visits, here are the strengths and weaknesses of each school:
CMU Pros
Top rated engineering school with an amazing reputation
Great outcomes in terms of salary and graduate placement
Extremely well resourced (they just added onto their main science building, built an entire quad for the business school, everything in their labs is brand-new and top notch, and they are razing Scaife Hall to build a new building)
Great location in the Oakland neighborhood in Pittsburgh
Strong interdisciplinary majors like Engineering and Public Policy
Strong in multiple fields - engineering, business, theater, design, architecture, public policy, etc. - so students meet people with varied strengths and interests
Nice sized school with self contained campus
Strong alumni network with many alumni business owners and leaders in tech industries
CMU Cons
Reputation for being a stressful environment and not very student friendly (though the administration does seem to be working on this)
Expensive
No merit scholarships and stingy with need-based aid
Son not as competitive relative to his classmates, academically
CWRU Pros
Strong, but not top, engineering program
Flexibility for students to change majors, and have double majors/minors
Collaborative, supportive culture
Merit aid equal to half of sonâs tuition
Nice neighborhood with culture, retail and restaurants
Affiliations with major research hospitals to support medical related majors or research (son also interested in BioChem and I would not be surprised if he changed majors)
Nice sized school with self-contained campus
Sears Think Box
Programs in multiple fields - nursing, humanities, etc. - so meet people with varied interests and strengths
Son competitive relative to his classmates, academically
CWRU Cons
Not as highly ranked as CMU (CMU #6 engineering and #25 overall / CWRU #45 engineering and #42 overall)
Outcomes not as strong as CMU
Does not appear to be as well resourced as CMU
Alumni network probably not as strong as CMU
Cleveland (sorry, Iâm partial to Da Burgh⊠and whatâs with the sculpture of Thing from The Addams Family?)
So, I am all ears. If my assessment is off the mark, please correct me. I would love to hear from anyone with experience with both schools, especially about workload and stress levels.
I donât have recent CMU experience or personal Case experience, but I wanted to add something that you may already be factoring into how competitive your student is: Itâs not just in the classroom where it is important to be competitive, but also in getting experiences, research opportunities, internships, etc.
There probably isnât a direct correlation between a kidâs SAT scores and those kinds of experiences, but it is something to consider. Your son would likely graduate from either school he attends, but during his time will he be able to have experiences outside the classroom that will make him attractive to employers or graduate schools? Even if both schools offer similar opportunities, will he be able the one chosen for them?
I am biased towards choosing CMU because I am an alum and, like you, know all that it has to offer. But if you are concerned that he wonât be able to take advantage of some of those great things because of where he stacks up against peers or because he will need to be focused on the classroom, thatâs something to consider.
A friend (from CMU!) once told me that itâs far more important to go to a school where you can stand out in some way or be in the top 10% than to necessarily pick the highest ranked school. Getting the best internships and similar is probably more important than getting into the best school. Even if the higher ranked school has the better internships, will a student be able to get them if then are in the bottom half of their peers?
I firmly believe that a lot more goes into college success than high school GPA and SAT scores. Plenty of kids donât seem to be remarkable in high school, but have the grit, determination, and enough intelligence to flourish in college. So donât count your son out because his objective measures to date arenât as high as some of the other kids at CMU.
CCName, Thanks for the feedback. While my sonâs SAT (770M) score may not be as high as some admitted to CMU, we also didnât go full âTiger Parentsâ on him. He took the test once, and the extent of his prep was taking timed practice tests at home a couple times and having a tutor explain to him how the test was scored, why questions are worded ambiguously, etc. My guess is that many incoming freshman at CMU - and a myriad of other top schools - have 790 or 800 math SATs because they took the test three times and went to SAT prep classes (God knows, there are many kids like that at his high school). His high school record - GPA, AP scores, course rigor, etc. - was comparable to other CMU engineering admits. He has great work habits and genuinely loves himself some STEM (English Lit, not so much), and we are confident that he would be competitive at a top school like The Nerd Farm.
We value fit more than ranking or prestige. The real attraction of CMU is the resources, outcomes and alumni network. The concern is campus culture and stress, hence my original post.
The difference between 770 and 800 is more about how he felt that morning, whether he had enough sleep the night before, how that particular test was scaled and whether or not the kid next to him had gas than it is about your sonâs abilities. On any given day a student is +/- 30 (or more) on the SATs. You son was admitted because they think he can be successful.
Enjoy your tour of the campus and see if your son thinks its the place for him.
Our time at CMU likely overlapped, then. SAE, right?
My claim to fame is a bit less illustrious. A week or so before Carnival, I crashed Undertaker coming out of the chute at push practice and it broke in half. It definitely should not have passed any safety inspections!
This the the most specific detail I have ever revealed about myself in CC, so I hope it is niche enough that I can stay anonymous!
We were there yesterday. A little cold and rainy but still fun. The SCS session was really good. Actually, the general session was really good, too. That guy was entertaining and it was nice to have all the students introduce themselves.
We attended the April 18 info session at CMU.
Sparsely attended - about 12-15 families. Girls to boys ratio in attendance seemed like 2:12. This gave the impression more boys were waitlisted.
It last for about 15-20 minutes.
Priority waitlist will start May 5th and will be rolling all the way till August. They empahsized no end date (seemed to contradict the May 13 date for all priority waitlist to hear from CMU).
They acknowledged last year was unusual and gave the impression they would like the waitlist to have some movement this year.
Past 5 year average waitlist movement to admit across all majors= 115 students
They will maintain the gender balance and other criteria (e.g. first gen in college, etc.) for the waitlist as well.
). We usually lined up against Limo in heat 1, iirc.