<p>I thought West Point and the Naval Academy were on the same side?</p>
<p>Only when killing the enemies of our country. ;)</p>
<p>I have a great friend who was an exchange student for a semester at West Point. HIs observations are that West Point is stronger on military drill and USNA is much stronger on academics.</p>
<p>So I guess if you want grunt work - go Whoop. If you want thinkers running things, go Navy/Marines! :-)</p>
<p>GO NAVY
BEAT ARMY
And really, a Merry Christmas to both!</p>
<p>What annoys me about this is that it is completely avoidable. There is no excuse for the Brigade of Midshipmen to look that way (again, I only saw the pics because the broadcast didn't include the march-on).</p>
<p>If those pictures are entirely accurate (and I can't imagine a reason they wouldn't be) and I were the 'Dant or the Supe (or even a Company Officer), I'd be pretty damned furious.</p>
<p>Looks like the one you tube video wasn't an isolated event, it appears it is actually an annual event. Here is the 2006 version which is equally disturbing:</p>
<p>Actually, of the 3 main services, I have found the Marine Corps by far to be the sharpest at close order drill, followed by the Army and then the Navy. As far as academics being tougher at navy than Army I just haven't seen any evidence of that. The number of Rhodes and other prestigious academic scholarships from both seem pretty comparable. I think the most agreeable comparison is that Army is foremost a leadsership school, and Navy is more technical in its approach. Some people associate "technical" with "academics"-and assume Navy must stress bookwork more---again, I just haven't seen the results in terms of actual evidence. Given the strenth of Army's engineering programs I tend to believe it has more to do with individuals and their chosen course of study than it does with some overall superiority/inferiority of the particular institution.</p>
<p>(Personally, I'd be curled up in the fetal position if I had to take physics or chem at either institution.)</p>
<p>I was at the game with my kiddo for the march on. First time. We sat on the Navy side. 20 yard line - nosebleed.
Observations: Army marched on and off in perfect formation. Flawless.
Navy marched on. Pretty good marching but not overly sloppy and didn't make the turns as crisp as Army.
Navy did not march off. We wondered why - thought it was because the teams were waiting for the field for warm ups.
As Navy went off the field, through the tunnel the WP Cadets were "taunting" and fooling around. We were told this would happen by a Navy mom who thought it was hilarious. Incidentally the Cadets seats surrounded the tunnel so they didn't have to move far. I suppose if it was a problem the organizers could have had Navy leave the field via a different tunnel.
Bill the Goat - cute and funny. While Navy was in formation he did a complete uniform "inspection" - hilarious.</p>
<p>Just watched the latest u-tube video fwdad posted. Forgetting the political crap on it, I have to agree with some here---the midshipmen should have marched down that street. Once you organize by company and have those guidons out front you are representing the Academy as the Brigade and should marching. It really does look dishevelled and dis-organized. It really displayed a lack of discipline. Im guessing leadership will address soon.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Personally, I'd be curled up in the fetal position if I had to take physics or chem at either institution.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Believe me, I was. More than once. I wasn't alone. ;)</p>
<p>I'm not going to justify those videos by watching them. Just the titles alone are insulting enough for me.</p>
<p>I hope leadership doesn't address this issue. Like I stated earlier, the Navy fans enjoy the mids cheering and interacting with them. If they didn't, then why would they throw them candy, offer them water, and even at times give them slurpees as the pass by 7/11? Thats something that has been part of the tradition, and frankly, something, that when coupled with the ensuing march on, complements it well. </p>
<p>I figured I would catch fire for the "automotons" comment. More of a tongue-in-cheek observation than anything else. Having friends at West Point I know that not to be the truth. However, once again, I feel the need to comment on the photos. The first two were taken during turns. In the first picture, there are mids surging in formation. This is a poblem. This is one of the difficulties of the mids marching style. In fact, the way that mids do their turns is more difficult than the army method. The second picture features mids in their turns, however, there is little surging. It is actually a good turn, with the inner ranks half stepping while the outer ranks are catching up from the turn. In the picture with Bill, I might add that despite Bill's antics the mids are keeping their bearing, as well as being covered and aligned. The final picture shows the brigade formed up well. However, the perspective on the camera angle gives a diagonal look, which, when compared with the head on Army shots, does not offer as good of a view.</p>
<p>Stallion,</p>
<p>I'll agree that the march-ons thrugh town are a bit more relaxed than some might assume because the Brigade really DOES interact with the town, the kids, etc., and that is definitely a positive thing.</p>
<p>However, we didn't look that sloppy EVER (Yes, I watched the first 65 seconds of that claptrap). I'm not sure what the circumstances were, but it just looked all wrong. We also didn't have Mids screaming like that moron was.</p>
<p>Dunno. Methinks a bit of decorum needs to be brought back unless I am missing something that those who are there now can enlighten me on.</p>
<p>Zaphod,
Your definitely right that there should be more decorum. However, keep in mind that these people the mids are responding to are members of a hate group. There not your average American protester invoking their constitutional right. They are Neo-Nazis. While the actions of the mids are not justified in the video, it is important to realize the context that they are taken from.</p>
<p>Well, again, I haven't seen the whole video because I don't want to hurl my lunch all over the keyboard, but what professionals do in cases like this is to simply ignore these morons (we've taken to doing it in the Parent's Forum all the time now). All they've done is unwittingly given them footage to use on YouTube.</p>
<p>Frankly, I'd be far less upset if that company of Midshipmen had simply gone medieval on their a**es and pounded them into paste like they deserve. Call it practicing hand-to-gland combat skills in a live environment with reactive targets. Now THAT would have been a video to watch!</p>
<p>"Please observe as MIDN 3/C Gish executes a perfect vertical strike with his left foot, connecting solidly with the target's groin and immediately eliminating the threat (present and future). At the same time, note how MIDN 1/C Door is covering Gish's right flank with a left hook against another target while 4/C Pleber provides overwatch with a 2-by-4. Good placement of assets for maximum striking capability while retaining tactical flexibility. Halsey would have been proud." :D</p>
<p>"I will say, however, that those of us in the Brigade were highly disappointed with our West Point brethren when several Midshipman were struck in the face with golf balls as we marched through the tunnel off the field."</p>
<p>Those cadets should have been made to clean the mids latrines, or been drummed out of the corps entirely for behavior unbecoming an officer. That's inexcusable behavior from any perspective.</p>
<p>^^^^wpson2010- did that really happen? Was sitting right on top of the tunnel and saw nothing of the kind- and it would really be unfortunate if what was posted was accurate- oh my!</p>
<p>Navy2010:</p>
<p>Profmom2 said, "I will say, however, that those of us in the Brigade were highly disappointed with our West Point brethren when several Midshipman were struck in the face with golf balls as we marched through the tunnel off the field. I myself was spit on."</p>
<p>Since you were there also, and at the scene of the crime, and didn't see anything, we can at least hope it was a very isolated incident. Taunting is to be expected; hard projectiles and spit are intolerable. With luck a video camera will catch the offensive act and the perpertrator(s) will be delt with, severely.</p>
<p>I'd give those mids some AWs cover. Red and Gold paint balls of course.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Actually, I believe this was Profmom's son, using her account. Must be home for x-mas. My point is, this appears to come from a mid who marched on.</p>
<p>Rempt could suggest an action on student's future</p>
<p>Published in the BS:</p>
<p>
[quote]
The superintendent of the Naval Academy, who recused himself last week from a decisive role in the court-martial of former Navy quarterback Lamar S. Owens Jr., has not said whether he will make the call in recommending whether Owens will graduate or be forced to repay the government for his $140,000 college education. </p>
<p>Vice Adm. Rodney P. Rempt dropped his position as the convening authority in Owens' case - a role that decides if the court-martial convictions will stand - after months of criticism by alumni supportive of Owens and who claim Rempt appears biased....
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This has got to be the most amazing thread that I have ever read. And in the hopes of being an anonymous quote in the Washington Post, I feel a necessity to respond. As a matter of fact, I joined this forum just to respond to this thread.</p>
<p>First off, no where on my ticket nor in any of the advanced hype for the game did I read anything about it being a football game and a marching contest. In case none of you noted or failed to grasp the obvious significance, the photographs were taken and edited by woops. I’m sure had I known Navy was going to lose and were preparing myself to air some sour grapes, I could have climbed into the nosebleed seats, taken a few pictures, edited out the best of Army, added the best of Navy, and claimed that Army couldn’t march. But I was there for a football game instead of a drill contest, so I really didn’t care. Besides, back in the summer of 1965 right before Parent’s Weekend, my Plebe Summer Platoon Leader told us that at that moment was the best we would ever march. That it would be downhill from there. The Navy is not a marching service. If we were truly attempting to thrill football fans with our drilling abilities, we would not wear white covers, we would fall in according to height, and would take an extra fifteen minutes marching off the field so that the march on would have to be scheduled even earlier in the day. Get over it Army, you lost. I suppose I could develop a slide show showing the Midshipmen cheering wildly and the Woops dejectedly sitting on their thumbs and say that I was disappointed in the Woops lack of enthusiasm but that would be rubbing things in, kind of akin to the sour grapes of perceived marching abilities.</p>
<p>Secondly, we have a bunch of neo-Nazis taking videos. God knows what their motives are. Like Zap, I am not about to give them the attention necessary to figure it out. They made videos of the Brigade movement from T-Court to the stadium. Back in the ‘60s when I did it, we did not march. It was a mass cluster. An informal pep rally. Interaction with the locals. Cheering with the other fans. We gaggled to the stadium, Heck, our little brothers, sisters, and girlfriends “marched” with us. We arrived at the stadium, formed up, and marched in. From all I have seen, as a 20 year season ticket holder, that is what it continues to be. Midshipmen aren’t always the “automatons they see up on the Hudson”. The opportunity to have fun exists occasionally. Getting to the stadium for home football games is one of them. Lighten up folks. </p>
<p>Thirdly, that the WP would stoop to quote a forum such as this with their “undisciplined louts in uniform” comment has got to be the most ludicrous of all. I heard somewhere once that the only fool bigger than someone who posts on internet forums is the person who heeds their advice. The WP journalist in this case certainly fits that description. His actions were more fitting for his neighbor to the north, the Baltimore Sun.</p>
<p>Army, get over it. Navy won. For the fifth consecutive time.</p>
<p>Admiral Rempt is seeing the light and backing off on the Lamar Owens issue. I certainly hope that published loutish ignorant comments such as "undisciplined louts in uniform" had nothing to do with his decision.</p>
<p>The one thing that I choose to find unbelievable about this whole thread is the woops with the golf balls. Also, one of the woop "defendants" stated that it was acceptable to taunt ones opponents. Since when? We are a cut above. When I was a midshipman, we were not even allowed to “boo” our opponents. I will continue to believe that this is just a rebuttal to a ridiculous woop charge from an overzealous Navy fan.</p>
<p>GO NAVY!!!!
BEAT ARMY!!!!</p>