<p>Why does everyone use the term "chorus" when the real term is "ensemble"? :) And if anyone reading here took the time to think about the tremendous amount of talent it takes to get into the ensemble of a Broadway show (not to mention a show at a LORT or other professional theater), he or she wouldn't look down his or her nose at that. Heck, I bet any one of you students would LOVE to be cast in the ensemble of a professional show. Every program, in addition, claims not to produce the "cookie cutter" performers that they allege other programs produce. During my D's college auditions, I lost count of the number of students at each program who would say "Unlike XXXX program, WE don't produce cookie cutter performers. Our program strives to make you the best individual performer you can be for your type." ;) (Sorry, guys, I am crabby today for some reason ....)</p>
<p>actually chorus is acceptable as well as ensemble or star or lead or any word that means you're on stage. in my career I've done them all and the bottom line is - I just wanted to be on stage. and you can do that at any college you go to - or you can decide not to go to college at all. It's about you. not the college. not your contacts or networking. those all help but ultimately it's about you. you don't have to be a star right now or the best kid in the nation. very few of the best kids at Northwestern - where I went -are stars now or even still working. I went to school with Megan Mullaly who is now a star but it took Megan years of perserverance. Marg Helgenberger is now a star but Marg worked her butt off. Julia Louis Dreyfuss is now a star and Julia worked her butt off and so did her husband Brad who was a star in school and is not performing any longer. I could go on and on.</p>
<p>Just perform. Train (either in school or not). Perservere. Want it. And you will have a career.</p>
<p>This site has a great deal of good information but it is also dangerous because you can get caught up in the desperation of being the best right now and going to the best. If you want it, your time will come - no matter what path you take.</p>
<p>Be wary of getting too many opinions. Just go to the schools and decide where you belong. Plain and simple.</p>
<p>Then GO DO IT!</p>
<p>DisneyDirector, you are my hero! Thanks for those words of wisdom!</p>
<p>Megan Mullaly went to OCU for a semester or two...</p>
<p>Disney - that is called a reality post. Nice post :)</p>
<p>Great post, DD! Made me think of the line from 42nd Street (and pardon me if I mangle it) when one of the chorus/ensemble (sorry ... couldn't resist) girls says to Peggy Sawyer: Go out there and do it for the girls in the line!!!</p>
<p>Dearest Chelle,</p>
<p>My heart goes out to you......as has been reported here, we had the similar angst and drama last year - just OCU and NYU CAP21(dream school, top ranked, in NY...etc etc etc).....and the $$ issues were the same. We have a NM full scholarship at OCU vs a calculated debt of ~200K at NYU (we were offered 1000/year as a merit scholarship). </p>
<p>Our deal was 50%- we pay 50% and she pays 50% of WHEREVER she wanted to go. After 2 weeks of crying, teeth gnashing, "whats in your future" discussions and several martinis (for MOM :) - she chose OCU - and she has not regretted it since.</p>
<p>We called it heart vs head - and itis VERY hard. I wish you much luck in whatever you decide and would be happy to discuss specifics of OCU if you wish or put my D in touch with yours for a student perspective....</p>
<p>I'll be thinking of you....MikksMom</p>
<p>I stumbled across this thread, but everyone seems incredibly knowledgeable. Which schools have "cuts"? I know that BoCo and CCM have cuts. Also, what is the impact of having cuts? I would think that would naturally make the environment at the school much more competitive and that there would be less esprit de corps/team work.</p>
<p>anne, great question. I am a parent and not a student who has been through a program with cuts, but I would say that the biggest thing to consider about cuts is that some people find themselves out of a program at the end of sophomore year, which must be awfully disconcerting! Brent Wagner at University of Michigan gave what I thought was a very good talk about the impact of cuts (and why Michigan doesn't have 'em) before an audition session there this year, and he summed it up well: having cuts, he posits, doesn't so much make kids more competitive with each other as it makes kids try to become "teacher pleasers" in order not to be cut. And trying to be what a teacher wants you to be (instead of just your best self, mistakes and flaws and all) sucks the creativity right out of a student. I think he's right.</p>
<p>CCM doesn't have cuts.</p>
<p>I recall Mr. Wagner's talk about cuts when we visited and contrasting the philosophy and approach and I agree with all you have written on the topic of cuts, NMR, although it is personnal preference if someone is comfortable with this approach. My D was not and chose not to apply to CCM. </p>
<p>JLActor, I appreciate your well articulated post as a current student. It is well reasoned and explains your perspective as well as some strengths at CCM. </p>
<p>llong39, you are stating in post #30 that "CCM doesn't have cuts." The fact is that they DO have cuts and even a current student has posted here that they DO have cuts. I have known a few students who have attended CCM who also have said they have cuts. They no longer cut by numbers, that's true but the first year students do get concerned whether they'll get to stay or not. This permeates the atmosphere. This may be fine for some and not for others. It isn't a matter of simply failing classes and/or not showing up. You have also said that other programs do this. Some do, but not all. All programs have reviews of some sort. But at many programs, the reviews are used to help the student and evaluate and discuss areas that need work, etc. At many programs, nobody is cut or has to fear being cut. I suppose at any college, if someone is failing or not going to classes or something of that sort, that would be understandably grounds for not passing or staying. But I'm talking about students who are passing. At many BFA programs, passing students are not in fear of not getting to stay. They are reviewed and evaluated as part of the learning process, but nothing more.</p>
<p>CCM is a fantastic school with a great reputation for talent. But it is important that those who consider it, understand that CUTS are part of their philosophy and procedures. The current student here has affirmed that and yes, that it is a scary aspect. But he believes in it and that's cool. If you are fine with that or see the benefit of that approach, I think that's great and it is a good fit for many. But people should be informed first. CCM DOES have cuts. And schools that have cuts may have a certain atmosphere. It may cause some to not take risks. It may cause some to sense competitiveness and survival of the fittest. For some, it may cause fear or anxiety. Some policies and procedures at some schools create a more nurturing and collaborative process without fears. Each approach is more fitting for some and not for others. Each applicant must decide for him/herself as to which approach fits what they want. </p>
<p>I believe one reason CCM utilizes cuts is that they want those in their showcases to be of a certain talent level that is presented to those in the industry. A way around that would be to keep all students and nurture them in their education, redirect or guide as necessary, and so on but not cut....but if they prefer, they could require auditions for the showcase....Otterbein, for instance, does that. But all who enter college, as long as they are passing, get to stay and get their education and the industry can decide who will make it or not. I think once a school accepts you, they should see you through the four years (not counting those who are failing, etc.). </p>
<p>NMR....I do chuckle at how people at different programs or even on CC talk about how their program doesn't create cookie cutter performers and cares about individuals. It seems to me that most programs I have come to know care about individuals. I surely do not think that CCM is training students for the ensemble as proven by the track record of its graduates. As well, as others have said, when you first graduate, you may start in ensemble....it is a big world out there and you are not all gonna start out as leads even if you played them in college.</p>
<p>Thank you to both NMR and Soozievt for your insights. I love Mr. Wagner's comments and would certainly hope my daughter ends up in a non-cut program. She's only a sophomore, so we have much to learn and this site is an invaluable resource.</p>
<p>CCM does not have cuts. They have boards in May for the Freshman class to determine if the students are progressing. They do not cut to obtain a certain number.</p>
<p>I think everyone has agreed that CCM does not cut to obtain a certain number such as is done at say, DePaul. They DO cut students after boards in May for whatever reasons they have that they feel the student is not progressing at the level of talent they wish their students to be at. The bottom line is that some students are asked to leave. During the freshman year, students know that there is a risk involved in whether they will be allowed to stay or asked to leave, unlike some schools where you know you can stay if you are not failing out. They may state that they do not have "cuts" and it is getting semantic. Students are forced to leave and all students know that they may not necessarily get to stay when they enter. I know several kids who have attended CCM who have said this and mentioned their classmates being cut. We even have a current student who posted above who confirmed this.</p>
<p>The freshmen "boards" at CCM determine if you stay or not. The "evals" at some other schools, such as the one my kid attends are simply a learning tool and an assessment to help a student know what they need to work on. They are not at risk of having to leave after "evals".</p>
<p>By the way, I am not putting down CCM and in fact in my earlier post, mentioned what a great program it is. As a counselor, I recommend it to others. However, I do think when prospective students explore the options, they need to be FULLY informed as not all programs are the same.</p>
<p>Here is how I evaluated the situation when my D applied to CCM. ( I always like to do worse case scenarios and see if I'm willing to live with them.)</p>
<p>CCM was very generous in accepting high school credits - they were giving her credits of just less than a year. I was assuming that once CCM accepted them whatever college she transferred to would also have to accept them but never checked this - maybe Soozie knows. </p>
<p>I took the tuition minus the CCM scholarships and came up with a net cost and thought of it as excellent training. </p>
<p>So in the end after being cut - she would transfer having lost a year and starting over somewhere else but with over a year's worth of college credits and the rest I would write off to training.</p>
<p>At a lot of BFA programs, if you transfer, you have to start as a freshman, and so in essence that money at CCM may be lost and you may still have four years' tuition to pay. The training is an experience that would stay with you of course. But a BIG problem that those who have been cut from programs like AZ or CCM have faced is that they do not find out until May when it is too late to put in to transfer for the coming year. And they are left out in the cold.</p>
<p>Also, even if you don't have to start over as a freshman.....if you transfer from the BFA to a BA college, MANY of the credits are not transferable. I know someone who has chosen to leave CCM (definitely NOT cut) and the BFA type classes are not ones that transfer to a BA degree.</p>
<p>I have heard that, at DePaul (straight actor training and not MT) that the kids who are cut don't find out until June.</p>
<p>In a traditional music performance jury and/or barrier exam, the student may be advised about optional majors which would allow continued enrollment, i.e performance major moving to music education or BA degree. It would be surprising if the BA option or something similar is not offered to a "cut" MT or acting student. It is a question to ask before chosing one of the "cut" programs.</p>