<p>May 1st is right around the corner and we still have not committed to either school. OCU is offering a great scholarship package while CCM is offering very little. No loan for OCU. D will need to take out a loan each year to go to CCM. Not a great amound but enough. CCM is closer and her preference. Any input would be appreciated as we make this final decision.</p>
<p>CCM has cuts. That would weigh heavily against it if I were the one making the decision. No one expects to be the one cut, of course, but someone has to be. I also would closely examine the number of kids who enroll as freshmen versus the number who graduate and see how many of those who don't return are cut versus choose to leave. If there is a large gap between freshmen enrolled and seniors graduating, that would concern me. The only thing I know about OCU is that there is a culture of niceness there. Good luck and remember: these are two great choices! Congrats!</p>
<p>CCM told us they don't do cuts anymore, I thought they stopped either 2 or 3 years ago.</p>
<p>I have a friend that has a kid that attends CCM. CCM told my friend that they did not cut students. However, a freshmen girl was cut last year and other students felt that they might get cut.</p>
<p>I guess I should say that we were told they don't cut to a <em>number</em> anymore. Like many other schools, they will cut someone if that person is not doing the work or not meeting their expectations, but they don't cut students just because they have to reach an exact number anymore.</p>
<p>It used to be that if there were, say, 25 students and the <em>magic</em> number was 20, 5 would get cut. So if you were #21, it was too bad.</p>
<p>So I think that is what was changed. I imagine some students get cut, are dismissed, asked to leave, don't pass, whatever you want to call it at many different schools.</p>
<p>CCM does not cut in the sense that they only have say 15 spots in the Sophomore class with 20 in the Freshman class. They do have boards at the end of the Freshman year where they will tell you if you have progressed enough to continue. I do not think they are they only school that does this.</p>
<p>Every strong music faculty has a barrier exam, usually at the end of the sophomore year, but theoretically at the end of each jury. It is a fact of life. Hard work and progress are expected, but some talents peak early, and the performer does not develop technically. Those do not survive in any kind of program. It is naive to think that gaining admission to any performance program means that the student will definitely progress to a degree in the arts....it is not so.</p>
<p>lorelei, I agree with you: all performance programs SHOULD have juries, so that students' progress is measured and evaluated and those who are not making the grade (for instance, kids who don't come to class, are disruptive, etc. etc.) can be removed so as not to bog down the ones who are working. However, college programs are NOT the real world: they are prep FOR the real world. People say "Well, yes, such and such school has a cut policy, but that's the real world." No, it is not. In the real world, no one is paying tens of thousands of dollars to be cut. College is about training. Then the market can decide who to employ. But that's only my opinion as a parent whose kid did not choose to apply for programs known to have cuts. :)</p>
<p>I would go with the least expensive option thinking that I could spend the savings later on an MFA or a down payment on a house!. You could even try a year at OCU and if it doesn't pan out your not out any money. What's the risk there? If she goes to CCM and doesn't like it or God forbid gets cut you're out some cash.</p>
<p>Obviously some nice choices to have, best of luck.</p>
<p>NotMamaRose: I must disagree with your statement that "college programs are NOT the real world: they are prep FOR the real world." While a college education indicates a process, a degree announces a basic mastery at a standard the academic community has established. It does not matter how much is being paid for the tuition, if the standard is not met, no degree should be awarded. Grades and credits are given for accomplishment and mastery, not effort or desire. You would not want a student to be awarded an MD just because tuition was paid. Performance degrees certify mastery of a level of skills, though talent may have been the entry ticket. </p>
<p>I understand what you say about cuts...it is a big gamble....but no more so than entering into a performance degree to begin with.....there are no guarantees. That being said, a degree in music or performing arts can be a good undergraduate major, IF the curriculum provides time for general education courses which educate as well as train.</p>
<p>I'd rather go through a program with cuts. Then I try harder, and I know if someone else isn't trying hard enough, they can get cut and stop wasting my time.</p>
<p>I'd say go with CCM. Great program, prime location, fantabulousness all around.</p>
<p>At the info session before the auditions the head of the program, within his speech, said "You can get away with crappy acting in musicals!"</p>
<p>Personally, I wouldn't want to go to a school with that mind set. Unless, you want to be in the chorus forever, acting will be the most important tool to have!</p>
<p>My D's audition at Unifieds for acting at CCM was one minute and they timed it. It has been argued by others that you can tell if someone can act during a 1 minute monologue. I contend you could tell if they couldn't act but I'm of the opinion that it's not enough. The dance audition was challenging and they had her sing 2 X 32 bar songs. I agree that acting is key but I think dancing is too if you want to stay employed for any length of time. You could line good singers up from Chicago to New York. It seemed like 90 percent of the kids I heard through the door at auditions could sing very well.</p>
<p>I'm going to post this and I know as in other threads about CCM people are going to retort and justify the importance of being thin to have the right look for many (not all) roles. That may be true but from what I have heard CCM puts more emphasis on it - perhaps even pressure - even to the point from what I have heard wanting their girls to be underweight. As the Mother of a D this concerns me - greatly. This type of environment is why I have not allowed my D to enter the field of modeling. Anorexia scares me. </p>
<p>It may be true that CCM breaks them down and builds them up and produces star qualities. But this concerns me because there is NOTHING more important to any human than their own self image and esteem. Actors need to believe in themselves as they face continual rejection after rejection. Any program that doesn't dispense with needed criticism cautiously and without promoting self-doubt is not doing well by the student. </p>
<p>So between this concern, the cuts, and the $$$$, I'd push for OCU. If you can go to the school that Chenowith and O'Hara went to and come out debt free into an industry where 90% are unemployed and you have no expectation of return on your training, I'd say that was a good choice. I also believe the academics are better at OCU.</p>
<p>Go to CCM. I promise.</p>
<p>Lorelai, I guess we will have to agree to disagree about whether college is the real world. :)
And to clarify, I never said (nor do I believe) that a program should just pass an untalented and/or unmotivated kid along and hand them a diploma at the end of four years. That's not even close to what I meant! :) What I meant was that provided kids meet a certain standard (that is reasonable for people of their age) as they go along, college programs should make a commitment to helping those kids go as far as they can go within that four year period. Frankly, that's what almost all the other BFA programs do and they graduate plenty of very talented and successful people.
In the end, the original poster should decide for herself or himself which program to go to based on various factors, including where he/she feels best. Sometimes, in the end, it does come down to where one can imagine oneself. It's also worth remembering that the OP cannot go wrong with either wonderful program: it's a win-win situation.</p>
<p>I know nothing about CCM, and pretending I know nothing about OCU, and having been racking up the debt for three years of college, I would say OCU is the most attractive option simply because of the $$$ you will save. </p>
<p>My D is very happy at OCU and is progressing well. It really boils down to where your D THINKS she will be happiest. She really can't know that until she gets there. I'm assuming she thought she could be happy at OCU or she wouldn't have auditioned there.</p>
<p>I'm not sure what it is Mattheww is promising...maybe he's going to pay your tuition?!!.. :)</p>
<p>It is tough to turn down what many perceive to be one of the top programs in the country. You have to deal with the reactions of others and your own fear of the "what if." So, as much as possible, make sure she doesn't want CCM because it is CCM. If she sees herself there, likes certain things about the program that OCU doesn't have then why not? The big "why not" might be the debt and that is where the parents have to play a big role. Is she going to be responsible for this debt? If so, then that is a huge reason to go to OCU. Any edge she feels she may have graduating from CCM may quickly disappear when her choices after graduation are impacted by debt. If the parents are accepting responsibility for the loans, then take the debt piece off the table so guilt is not a factor. I really sympathize with you Chelle - my D is having a terrible time making a decision.</p>
<p>Thank you Musicmom - that made me laugh out loud!!!</p>
<p>I normally don't post on here but I like to read it from time to time to see what it being said about my school.</p>
<p>I am currently a junior musical theatre major at CCM and could not be happier with the program. These rumors are are just that - rumors! They are rarely based in fact or actual experience and and are purely hearsay. </p>
<p>Acting is NOT overlooked by any means at the school. Are their stronger actors than others? Of course, but that is the case in EVERY program. Just as there are students who are stronger singers or stronger dancers. I auditioned for the program feeling most confident in my acting, and have grown immensely in acting AS WELL as voice and dance. Since my freshman year I have constantly been put in situations where I had to develop as a person and as a artist.</p>
<p>And no, there is not a stress on weight or body type. They do not consistently pressure girls to lose weight or fit a certain mold. There are all kinds of students in the department. The faculty DOES want us to be healthy and fit <em>for our own body types</em>, which is necessary for anyone hoping to one day do eight shows a week. I don't think that's too much to ask at all! As a performer your body is your tool - why not use it in its healthiest form?</p>
<p>Academics are required as part of our BFA training. We are on a quarter system (3 quarters a year) and are required to take 3 quarters of English, 3 of History, 3 of Psychology, 3 Developments of Drama, and 3 academic electives. I have consistently been in academics since second quarter of my freshman year. Our program values intelligent performers.</p>
<p>Cuts are a part of CCM, it's true. But the faculty does NOT have a set number nor do they wish to cut anyone! However, some students enter the program and do not do the required work; this is evident in their classes as well as their board examinations. I was highly motivated during my freshman year to push myself and grow. Was it a scary? At times, yes. Am I glad I did it? ABSOLUTELY. I could speak more indepth on the "cut system" but for now I will leave it at that. The faculty know what they're looking for in college auditions, so if your child got into CCM the faculty is excited to work with them - hence, why they were chosen.</p>
<p>Also, senior showcases are important as well. I'm not sure if OCU has one or not, but every year CCM's senior showcase is one of the most well-attended of the season. All of us are so grateful to have a showcase to help secure agents in NY which is a task any beginning actor must undertake. The 2008 senior showcase occurred this past Thursday; aside from getting agent callbacks one girl was asked to audition for the revival of SIDE SHOW and one boy was asked to audition for the OF THEE I SING revival the next day! These are opportunities we are very fortunate to have. Any assistance into this business will help one towards success and CCM can do that.</p>
<p>Lastly, CCM is not a "chorus school" and I feel that term is a bit silly. As a young performer you will mostly likely graduate and perform in the chorus at first, then work your way into leads as you mature. How often do 22 year olds star in leads on Broadway? The chorus of the show is always a group of hardworking individuals who get little attention for the amazing things they do. I am just as excited to hear that "so-and-so" just got the chorus of a show as I am to hear that two 2007 grads are principles in the upcoming A CHORUS LINE tour (four grads total in the tour) or that a 2006 grad is going on for Galinda in WICKED on the tour. I could go on to list recent working alumni but I'll stop at that. </p>
<p>I hope this gives EVERYONE a better idea of CCM. It is a wonderful program and I am truly in all sincerity honored to be part of it. There are other wonderful programs out there as well, so it's definitely a question of "fit" for the student. Good luck to chelle's daughter as well as anyone else auditioning for CCM or other programs in the future!</p>