Celebrity students at USC - 2012 Edition

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Southern California
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<p>A “B” student could be casually described one getting 3.7 - 3.8. Some refer to “A” students as 4.0+.</p>

<p>This is just so subjective. </p>

<p>Not knowing what Dr. Phil’s son’s actual stats were, I’d hesitate to base an assumption on it. He might have had a 3.7, respectable SAT/ACT and other noteworthy activities. Also might have been a Theater/Art/Athlete major or something that gives weight to the “talent” aspect. This also eliminates the “fairness” question. </p>

<p>Many actor students are weighted for “talent” as are athletes, and USCs renown film/theater/tv departments also somewhat explain the existence of this thread…</p>

22

<p>Yeah, doame, I’ve already noted that USC doesn’t place as much of an emphasis on grades when it comes to majors that require a particular talent. </p>

<p>Without delving into it too much, I guess you would have to have seen the show I’m referencing. No, he didn’t specificallly cite a GPA, but I consider a “B” student to be closer to a 3.0 and if you had seen Dr. Phil discussing it, it was pretty clear that he wasn’t talking about a kid who had As with a few Bs sprinkled in. He even kind of mocked “A” students. </p>

<p>Anyway, I get that there are actors and actor’s kids who get into the film school or theater because of their talent but, again, I don’t think being the son of a TV psychiatrist necessarily translates into talent for film school. And, as I gathered from the show, the kid liked to play music and had a band, but that wasn’t what he was studying at USC.</p>

<p>Regardless, I’ve beaten this to death. I can certainly see a positive side to having celebs at USC. They probably bring in a lot of money and reognition to the university. I just don’t think their presence should trivialize all the hard work and stiff odds involved for an average kid to get into SC.</p>

23

<p>By “Dr Phil’s son,” I’m guessing you mean Jordan, not Jay, who went to UT Austin?</p>

<p>Jordan was born in 1986, so theoretically he would have applied for admission to USC in 2004, when the acceptance rate was 30% and the middle 50% of SAT scores were 1250-1420. The middle 50% of the class of 2015 (so the last class before USC was on the common app) had scores of 1280-1490 on math and critical reading, and had an overall acceptance rate of 23%. I’m sure SAT scores went up for the class of 2016 and I know their acceptance rate was 18%. </p>

<p>Also, if he applied to Thornton, the music school, I know they value talent over academics—not that academics are unimportant, but talent is more important in their eyes. For whatever it’s worth, I think most children of celebrities are in Annenberg, the School of Theatre, or Thornton.</p>

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<p>A B is 2.6 to 3.5…</p>

25

<p>Well, the show I’m referencing aired in 2011 and Dr. Phil said his son was going to graduate that year. Either he applied a few years later than you think, when the competition was a bit stiffer, or it took him 6 years to graduate. (My sister was born a year later and graduated college a year earlier and that was after she missed a year with serious health problems.) And, even in 2004, the academic standards were stiff enough that a white male with a B average would have a hard time getting in. Also, I think music was/is his dream, but his parents wanted him to study something more practical. I could be completely wrong about that, but that was the impression I got from the show. I don’t think he was in Thornton.</p>

<p>Also, even if he had applied to the music school, I’m not so sure the admissions procedures were the same back then. My sister is extremely talented in music. Her dream school was the Berklee Conservatory in Boston and she did get accepted and graduate from Berklee. She also applied to USC, but it wasn’t a school that particularly interested her. In addition to being very talented and having strong EC, she made As in AP classes. Her test scores, however, weren’t that great…in the 1250 range. She was rejected from USC before even being allowed to audition and USC specificially cited rising test scores among admitted applicants in the rejection letter. By the time my son’s GF applied to USC in 2009, they were conducting auditions before (or concurrent with) screening for academics.</p>

<p>There really isn’t a whole lot of information about Jordan McGraw when it comes to his academic record. (Interesting that there is a lot information available about the older son.) I am only going by what came out of Dr, Phil’s mouth on his show, where he specifically chose to introduce his son into the conversation.</p>

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<p>yeah there’s not much information about Jordan McGraw at all, other than how he may or may not have dated this one girl, but I did find a couple websites listing his birth year as 1986. He could have applied in 2005 (e.g. if his birthday is late in year, like December) and then taken an extra year or semester, or been admitted as a spring admit. Who knows? But my point is that USC’s getting so much harder to get into every year that it’s kind of silly to compare admissions now to what they were a few years ago. With my stats from high school (which were far from bad!), I doubt I’d be accepted into the class of 2017 or 2018, much less any class beyond that, barring a major slide in admissions/rankings (which, no matter what your opinion on them, are considered valid by most prospective college students).</p>

<p>I was admitted to Thornton after I arrived at USC, so I don’t know how it works for prospective students. I will say almost everyone I know at USC is very smart, including the celebs and their children. If they weren’t smart, they probably wouldn’t have been accepted, and after being accepted, they probably wouldn’t have stayed very long.</p>

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<p>Yes, the standards have certainly gotten tougher over the last few years. My first son was accepted in 2010 and he thinks, by the time he graduates in 2014, his admission stats wouldn’t be good enough. (He got a 34 on the ACT and a 2250 on the SAT.) That said, the standards were plenty tough, even as far back as 2004, that a white male with a “B” average, without connections, would have had a tough time getting in. As I said, my sister was a very talented A student in honors classes and she didn’t get in.</p>

<p>Whether or not it is a good idea for USC to make special exceptions for celebs is certainly debatable…pretending it doesn’t happen is a bit much for me to buy.</p>

<p>FWIW, I got a PM from someone whose child had classes with McGraw and thinks he isn’t very bright. Again, I don’t know. I can only go by what his father said. Dr. Phil spends a bit of air time speaking about his family proudly – which I enjoy. And he made a point of saying his boys were relatively average students…</p>

<p>Suggesting he wouldn’t have gotten in if he weren’t smart is circular logic. The whole point of the discussion is to question whether or not USC lowers standards for celebs. Arguing that they’re in so they must be smart doesn’t address the question. And, true, perhaps if celebs weren’t qualified they wouldn’t last long…
or maybe it would take them 6 years to accomplish what others do in 4 ;-)? </p>

<p>Seriously, though, getting back to the crux of my point. I don’t doubt that most celebs are hardworking and competent…I’m just asking whether they have to meet the same standards as everyone else. If, for example, Jordan McGraw did an anonymus “chance me” thread, listing his grades, coursework, test scores, ECs, race and gender without any reference to connection, I seriously doubt most people here would give him much of a chance. </p>

<p>I think we both understand each other. I thought it was interesting fodder. I’ll shut up now. Goodnight.</p>

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<p>well I don’t think anyone can really answer whether celebs have an easier time getting in unless they themselves are a celebrity, or unless they work in admissions, in which case they should/would not be disclosing such information. So all anyone can offer is anecdotal evidence about the celebs we know. And the ones I know seem just like any other USC student, some smarter than others, some making better life choices than others, but they just happen to be famous. I can’t speak to admissions because I’m not a part of that aspect, and I didn’t observe anything other than my own admission!</p>

<p>Or maybe I’ve only classes with the smart celebs so I just have a skewed perspective?</p>

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<p>Disclaimer: I am not a Dr. Phil fan. That he discusses his kid’s HS grades on national television, with the offhand homey brag that–aw shucks-- his son is just an “average,” joe makes me uncomfortable on many levels. </p>

<p>With so much read into that one offhand comment, I feel it’s time to offer a Warning: You cannot believe everything you hear on daytime tv talk shows. </p>

<p>But back to your question: when TV psychologists say “my kid’s success at college admissions proves that middling students like him get into good schools,” we should probably recognize the talk show host’s motives. If he is in a business to gain favor among an audience of millions of stressed moms (daytime tv), then suggesting to scared stressed HS seniors and their parents that everything will be okay with college decisions–a little down-home hyperbole vis a vis his own son may be forgiven. But even if Phil was being accurate in his assessment (on tv!) that his kid was no great scholar, I’m not sure it’s a sign of the apocalypse.</p>

<p>As has been said over and over on CC, the parent or student looking to see admissions decisions based entirely on grades and scores is ignoring the purpose of a holistic process. The point is–they do give bumps and tips and advantages to a wide number of features an applicant brings that have nothing to do with those numbers. We’ll never know definitively to what threshold of gpa/SATs those desired students stats may dip with regard to the published averages, but we can guess which sorts of students (in moderation) are desired. Celeb kids may very well get an admissions bump. As do kids of heavy heavy donors. As do kids of parents who never attended college. As do kids from minorities that are underrepped. As do kids with unique talents. As do kids who have overcome extreme challenges. As do kids from obscure geographical locales. Of course, members of each of these groups are also denied admission. </p>

<p>All the top private universities are in the practice of building a class. They must feel that their student body is enhanced by peers that have such varied backgrounds. Some observers get huffy that athletes may have an easier academic bar to meet, but it is what it is in making a fully diverse class. A case could be made that any USC student who wishes to pitch their concept for a new reality/talk show to Dr. Phil (God help us) may find it helpful to have been a classmate of Phil’s kid. Access to celebrity/decision makers can be of value in many businesses–although if you’ve read this far, I hope you realize I do not personally find access to this particular guy much of a prize.</p>

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<p>Other than this nice discussion about whether or not celebs are deserving of their admission spots and if Dr. Phil made a misleading or erroneous statement, does anybody know of other celebs enrolling this year or who are continuing their education and planning to graduate in subsequent years?</p>

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<p>It is important to note Dr. Phil is not a clinical psychologist. He is not licensed to practice psychology or refer to himself as a psychologist in California or any other state. He voluntarily forfeited his license in Texas many yeas ago after he was accused of an improper relationship with a young woman. I have never watched his show, but an internet search indicates he is an entertainer at best, others view his style as destructive and exploitive. What is certain is that he lost the privilege to evaluate, treat or provide any services of a clinical psychologist or to refer to himself as a clinical psychologist, though apparently he does.</p>

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<p>I knew several children of “celebrities” during my UG career at USC. Only one of the handful I knew was what you’d consider a “stereotypical” child of a celebrity – a friend of my roommate’s – and she only lasted one semester. A few I knew also dropped out, but it wasn’t because they weren’t trying or were “too stupid.” Many of them graduated.</p>

<p>With some, it took me knowing them for a few months before I even realized who they were related to. Not all celebuspawn are horrible. I think it should be obvious why a lot are attracted to USC, sort of comes with the territory.</p>

<p>Is the kid from Malcolm in the Middle still there? I think he was a freshman when I was a senior. Same with John Goodman’s daughter, I believe.</p>

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<p>FWIW, the ex-governor’s son was in freshman orientation this week. He wasn’t there for the full time but I’d imagine his commitments keep him pretty busy. Not sure if his mom came along.</p>

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<p>Erik Per Sullivan (Dewey in Malcolm in the middle) is still here as a rising senior iirc</p>

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<p>Miranda Cosgrove is at F6 orientation right now for those who care</p>

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<p>As Warren Buffett puts it. They are in “the lucky sperm club”. he’s severely limiting his kids inheritance. Giving them enough to be comfortable, and not want. But not enough to be an annoying twit like most celeb kids.</p>

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<p>it’s not whether they are celebs or not. It’s whether a student is “full pay”. That instantly lowers gpa and academic requirements.</p>

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<p>MitchKreyben - my D is not a celebrity but is “full pay”. She was 3/325 at a private college prep high school and had test scores in mid USC range. Please don’t assume just because someone’s family can pay the tuition that the student did not earn their admission like everyone else!</p>

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<p>Mitch,
I am from a Trojan family. We all paid full tuition. There are brothers, cousins and now a grand niece. All were admitted to other fine choices. Two have doctorates, one graduated Magna Cum Laude and another Cum Laude. The niece is still an undergraduate.</p>

<p>With the exception of a few on International Scholarships all international students are paying full tuition. Do you think these students are less qualified? Wrong!</p>

40

<p>Gotta chime in here…Mitch, what makes you think that a ‘full pay’ student instantly lowers gpa and academic requirements for USC??? Your comment is rude and inaccurate. My S attended a competitive independent HS, had a respectable GPA, and good SATs and APs. Additionally, he had to audition to get in to Thorton School of Music so I would like to think that he got accepted at USC for his qualifications and talents, not because he is a ‘full pay.’ Anyway, this thread isn’t about that but I felt the need to speak up.</p>