Chance a Hopeless Transfer Student for Top Schools and Ivies

Transfer Students
1

<p>I’m applying next year as a sophomore transfer student and I have no idea which schools to aim for. I feel that my application is really lopsided – my GPA is absolutely hideous and my EC’s are somewhat average, but my test scores are decent, I have an upward trend, and my course load is one of the most rigorous at my school. </p>

<p>I’m planning on majoring in finance and computer science, but I’m also considering economics. After my undergraduate education, I plan to earn a masters in financial engineering and become a quantitative analyst. I haven’t decided what major I should apply to at each school because some are more competitive than others. Also, I won’t be posting my entire application on this thread. If you would like to chance me, please send me a PM so I can give you the rest of the information. </p>

<p>Objective:[ul]
[<em>] SAT I: 2320
[</em>] ACT: Didn’t take
[<em>] SAT II: 800’s on two tests, including Math II
[</em>] Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): Between 3.75 and 3.85
[<em>] Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): School doesn’t rank, but probably in top 15%
[</em>] AP (place score in parenthesis): Took 10 AP exams before senior year, none of which were self-studied. Taking a few more this year as well.
[<em>] Senior Year Course Load: Will send by PM
[</em>] Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.): National Merit Finalist, many national and state-level awards in physics and economics [/ul]
As previously stated, my GPA is extremely low but I have an upward trend. I’ve earned straight A’s (or close to straight A’s) for the past five semesters. I’ve also taken more AP courses than almost anyone else at my school. I will send a PM with details of my awards, AP scores, and SAT II’s. In addition, I’ll also send a list of my classes and a breakdown of my GPA by year (to illustrate the upward trend). </p>

<p>Subjective:[ul]
[<em>] Extracurriculars (place leadership in parenthesis): member of a few math and business clubs (with some leadership positions), national honor society, orchestra pit, a few others
[</em>] Job/Work Experience: I’ve had two internships so far and I have a paid research job for the upcoming summer. [/ul]
I’ll send details by PM of my EC’s, internships, summer activities, additional recs, and volunteer experience. </p>

<p>Other[ul]
[<em>] State (if domestic applicant): Domestic applicant. I don’t live in California, Virginia, or Michigan BTW.
[</em>] High School Type: Public
[<em>] College Type: In-state public school
[</em>] Ethnicity: Asian (I’m not going to check the “asian” box on the common app though. Does this actually work?)
[<em>] Gender: M
[</em>] Hooks (URM, first generation college, etc.): None
[li] Special Circumstances: I suffered through some personal problems that may have affected my academic performance (especially during freshman and sophomore year). I’ll send more details via PM. [/ul][/li]Here’s where I’m applying. If I list more than one college/major at a specific school, I would appreciate it if you could chance me for each college/major. I don’t think I have enough public schools on my list, so it would be great if you could suggest a few. </p>

<p>University of Illinois – Business;Engineering (Computer Science); Art and Sciences (Economics)
University of Michigan – Engineering (Computer Science, Industrial Engineering); Literature, Sciences, and Arts (Economics)
University of Virginia – Engineering and Applied Science (Computer Science); Arts and Sciences (Economics)
Johns Hopkins – Engineering (Computer Science); Arts and Sciences (Economics)
Northwestern – Kellogg; Arts and Sciences (Economics)
Georgetown – McDonough; Arts and Sciences (Economics)
Carnegie Mellon – School of Computer Science
New York University – Arts and Sciences (Economics)
Cornell – ILR; CALS(AEM); Engineering (Computer Science)
University of Pennsylvania – SEAS (Computer Sciences); CAS (Economics)
Brown – Economics, Applied Mathematics Track</p>

<p>So what do you think? Is my application pathetic? Do have any chance whatsoever at any of the ivies and private schools I’m applying to?</p>

2

<p>did you already apply to any of these colleges as a freshman and were rejected ?
If so, cross them off your list.</p>

3

<p>I think it’s worth a try… but if you keep your GPA and maybe raise it a bit and transfer as a junior you may have more of a shot. I have a friend who had a 3.85 who got accepted to UIUC and University of Michigan (she ended up at Berkeley). Your application isn’t “pathetic,” but you have to start thinking positively and doing whatever you can to improve yourself. The Ivies are a crapshoot though, and with your GPA, it will be very difficult.</p>

4

<p>@menoloparkmom, I applied to a few of these school as a freshman, but to different collleges (i.e. at Cornell, I applied to Engineering and not ILR or CALS). Most of these schools however are completely new, and I’m applying to different departments at the one’s where I’m reapplying.</p>

5

<p>Colleges keep a record of applications files and applying to a different dept wont make a difference if you were already rejected by the college. Transfer admissions rates are a LOT lower than freshman acceptance rates, as the number of openings is determined solely by how many students decided to leave. Top colleges have very high graduation % rates. So you chances of acceptance are much lower as a transfer student. those are the facts.</p>

6

<p>@star3x8, I’m a high school senior. The GPA I posted is my High School GPA, not my college GPA (which I will ensure is as high as possible). As I said before, there are a few circumstances that affected my freshman and sophomore grades in high school (which I’m not disclosing on this thread for the sake of confidentiality). </p>

<p>Also, I would appreciate it if you did NOT judge my application based solely on the information in this thread. I omitted a lot of important details, so, as previously stated, send me a PM if you want to chance me. Otherwise, your chancing won’t be accurate at all.</p>

7

<p>I’m somewhat in the same situation, and I’m actually thinking of reapplying to a couple of Ivy level schools as a sophomore transfer. However, my case is seems more desperate. Freshman and sophomore year grades probably won’t carry much weight when you apply as a transfer, but for me, I have an awful junior year that I can’t simply explain away with family trouble or financial trouble. I had a mental breakdown I didn’t want to explain in the original applications simply because I thought it would be a huge anti-hook. I was never diagnosed, but regardless, I was too depressed an angry to do any work that year. </p>

<p>So if you already got rejected somewhere, does that make it even harder to get in if you reapply? Does it hurt my application if they see it’s my second time? </p>

<p>UPenn’s transfer acceptance rate isn’t much lower than their regular action acceptance rate. It’s really only some LAC’s and HYPSM (well, P doesn’t accept any transfers) that have the discouraging 2% and 4% transfer acceptance rates.</p>

8

<p>Your GPA isn’t THAT low, and I’m sure your extenuating circumstances can explain your grades. Based on prospective transfers’ high school records, you seem like one of the better applicants. If you earn strong grades in your first term of college, get great recs, and write compelling essays, you should have a great shot at most, if not all, of these schools.</p>

<p>I’m no expert, but yeah, I could give a better evaluation if you PM’ed me your specific details. As a fellow prospective transfer, I’m interested. You seem like a pretty strong applicant.</p>

9

<p>So if you already got rejected somewhere, does that make it even harder to get in if you reapply? Does it hurt my application if they see it’s my second time? </p>

<p>yes and yes. </p>

<p>Most Ivy / highly selective colleges ask for your HS transcript again, so if you haven’t proven, through an outstanding record of achievement in college, that you CAN do as well at their college as the students they DID accept, you have nil chance of acceptance as a transfer student. And your HS record WILL carry more weight if you are trying to reapply as a Sophomore.
There are VERY few spots open for transfer students at most Ivy schools[ Cornell is the exception] , as opposed to the Hundreds of spots created by an entire graduating class. That is the reality. For instance Stanford accepts approx 1200+ Freshman, and last year accepted only 20+ transfer students. </p>

<p>If you want to transfer to another college, pick one that takes a lot of transfer students- USC for instance accepts 1000+ transfer students each year. They mostly live next to campus among the thousands of upperclassmen who prefer to live in an apt, but that is a small negative compared to the benefit of attending a top 25 university .</p>

10

<p>Correct me if I’m wrong, but I do not think you can apply to Northwestern Kellogg as an undergraduate.</p>

<p>Otherwise, I think that if you do well in your first year of college, you are a qualified applicant for the schools on your list. You have listed quite a few schools, so I assume you are set on transferring. I would agree with the poster above that it may be wise to add a school that is particularly transfer friendly and accepts many transfer students just to be safe. (Schools like USC, Vanderbilt)</p>

<p>Also keep in mind that schools like Brown are need aware for transfer students, which may affect you if you need financial aid.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

11

<p>I’m perplexed about how you got rejected at most of those schools with your numbers.</p>

12

<p>Also, menloparkmom is off. I would pay more attention to iabass. His post seems to reflect what will likely be the case.</p>

13

<p>^ agreed. Just really start working on your essays early. Really read through websites, call friends, or whatever. Learn about the programs so you have honest responses. It also helps if you don’t come off as a jerk saying things like SUPER LOW GPA when you have ~3.8. Also rinata is correct in saying that you cannot apply for Kellogg as an undergrad and should apply to Mccormick (EAS) or Weinberg (CAS), instead you can get a certificate in business if you are so inclined through Kellogg. Also menloparkmom I got into NU the second time. Of course this is only anecdotal evidence, but it cannot hurt to try if you have the funding. Also how are you sure they take note of your previous rejection?</p>

14

<p>Also, menloparkmom is off.</p>

<p>oh really? Hmmm…
DS who WAS accepted at Dartmouth, Brown and other top colleges, decided to try and transfer to those colleges after 1 semester at the U he matriculated at. The result? Nyet. He was rejected at most of the colleges that HAD previously accepted him with the exception of Chicago. Why? Far fewer openings for Transfer students.
So how likely is it that a highly competitive college that previously rejected a student, will now accept the same student, when there are fewer openings and nothing compelling or extraordinary has happened with the student or his academic record since his earlier application?<br>
I have been advising other transfer students on CC for 6 years. And I think I know a little more about the realities of how hard it is to transfer into a top college than an 19 year old …</p>

<p>here is a link to an old [ 2010] chart showing some transfer acceptance rates:</p>

<p><a href=“Transfer Acceptance Rates at US News Top 50 - Transferweb”>Transfer Acceptance Rates at US News Top 50 - Transferweb;

<p>"Generally speaking, it looks like the trend of shrinking admissions rates continues this year[ 2010] .</p>

<p>20 of the 50 schools had higher transfer admissions rates than freshman admissions rates, while 29 of the 50 had lower transfer admissions rates versus freshman admissions (Princeton, which doesn’t take any transfers, is the remaining school).</p>

<p>21 of the 50 colleges had their transfer admissions rates increase versus last year, while more schools (27 of the 50) became more selective. Harvard began admitting transfers again as of Fall 2010, so their rate went from 0% in 2009 to 2% this year. We could not get previous year data for George Washington University, which was not in the Top 50 last year, so we couldn’t track how their transfer admission rate changed."</p>

<p><a href=“Transfer Admissions Rates for US News 2012 Added - Transferweb”>Transfer Admissions Rates for US News 2012 Added - Transferweb;

15

<p>^ Maybe your son didn’t get good grades during his freshman year. Maybe his numbers were borderline to begin with. Maybe a combination of these two things kept him out of transferring into those schools.</p>

<p>Whatever the case, there’s no reason to believe that your son is representative of all transfers in the transfer admissions process and that the OP won’t be accepted as a transfer into most of those schools. His SAT score and GPA should have gotten him into most of them easily as a HS senior and he’s going to be competing against students who, for the most part, will be applying as transfers with weaker HS records than he has. With a 3.7+ in his first year of college he should be golden.</p>

16

<p>"Maybe your son didn’t get good grades during his freshman year. Maybe his numbers were borderline to begin with. Maybe a combination of these two things kept him out of transferring into those schools.’ </p>

<p>He had a 3.9, GPA, 2330 SATs , 11 AP’s all 5’s, and was awarded a Full Tuition scholarship at USC. He is now at Caltech getting his Phd on a full fellowship. Does that sound like he was “borderline”? . and that was in 2006. These days it is even more competitive as more and more students are shut out of top colleges. </p>

<p>it is HARDER to get in to most top colleges as a transfer student than as a freshman, simply because there are far fewer openings . And no student is “golden” at any college if he was rejected the year before.
Your assurances, however well meaning, are based on false assumptions and a lack of knowledge of how competitive transfer admissions to top colleges can be.</p>

17

<p>menloparkmom, I agree with you on pretty much everything. It is definitely harder to be accepted by top colleges as a transfer student. However, the OP did not list colleges like Stanford, Harvard, Yale, etc., where the transfer rates are usually <2%. I believe that if he augments his application with strong college grades and extracurriculars, along with providing compelling reasons, he will have a solid chance at all of the listed colleges. Also, transfer rates are more volatile than freshman acceptance rates. They don’t necessarily go in a downward trend (look at Stanford’s recent CDS’s). Yes, if he was rejected once by those colleges, he is not going to get in with his high school record alone. However, of the colleges he listed, I’ve seen plenty of people from transfer decision threads that have gotten in despite being rejected the first time around.</p>

18

<p>OP, please come back in an year when you’re done with your freshman year. You might be surprised to find that your feelings towards transferring might have changed. </p>

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<p>No, she isn’t.</p>

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</p>

<p>The class rank, however, is.</p>

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<p>Hahahahaha, good one.</p>

19

<p>@WongTongTong, I already know that my current school just isn’t a good fit for me. It doesn’t have good programs in the majors I’m interested in and its not very well-regarded as a whole. Plus, I really hate the school’s atmosphere (which I sampled during my visit) and I want to go to college outside my home state. </p>

<p>As for being a quantitative analyst, I spent some time working with experienced quants during my internship last summer. I know what a career as a quant entails and it seems interesting to me.</p>

<p>BTW, thank you all for your responses. I never imagined you would think this highly of my chances (especially since I omitted so much information). Again, I would definitely appreciate a PM so I could show you the rest of my profile. Also, it would be great if you guys could rate my chances for each school as match, safety, reach, etc.</p>

20

<p>Although I agree with menloparkmom’s “dose of reality” point of view (and she brings a wealth of knowledge about transferring to this forum)… I can’t <em>totally</em> agree with her pessimistic outlook on possible acceptance as a transfer at places where you were rejected as a freshman.</p>

<p>I don’t know of any statistics out there. So that leaves us with anecdotal evidence. I’m willing to bet that the anecdotal evidence would tend to support her point - in general - but there are cases that I have seen, a few each year, where the previously rejected applicant is successful upon applying as a transfer. There may be an element of luck of timing when this happens, but certainly you want to strengthen every possible aspect of your application if you are going to re-try.</p>

<p>In your case, your stats look good to me. Nothing at all to apologize for on your GPA. So if you are thinking that is where you fell short, I think you should look elsewhere. Maybe your recommendations? If you have no way to know whether this was a weak element, the fix for this is to work hard to get to know a prof or two in your first term in your freshman year. Maybe your essays? You will grow a lot between those freshman essays and a transfer application (at least many people do)… meanwhile have someone with a good critical eye look at your previous essays and see if that might have been the weak point. If your HS guidance counselor is still around, and you are fortunate enough to have attended a school with a good and supportive Guidance Office, make an appointment - in person or by phone - to sit down with that person and ask for a frank appraisal of the strengths and weaknesses of your applications last year. </p>

<p>Still, keep menloparkmom’s thoughts in mind and don’t <em>expect</em> to get admitted to those schools.</p>

<p>Finally, you probably know that this is my perspective, but don’t presume that you need to transfer before you even show up at your in-state school. There are a lot of ways to make any school work for you - you may well be the top of the class where you are headed, which will give you many opportunities. Take advantage of them.</p>

<p>Best of luck.</p>