Chance Me Dartmouth ED and other T20s (Class of 2026)

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Schools I’m thinking about for ED (Going to pick one eventually)
Dartmouth(my first choice right now), and (possibly) Rice, WashU, Vanderbilt

Schools I’m thinking about for EA
UMichigan, UVA, UNC-Chapel Hill

(Please give me feedback if the ED and EA schools are reaches, matches, or safeties) (honestly I think none of them are safeties)

General Info:
Asian Female
from New Jersey from a not too big city, not sure if this would give me a geographic advantage
Public School: competitive only for IB Program
Income: upper middle class

Hooks?
First Generation College

Intended Major: (basically pre-med)
Biology

GPA: 4.0 UW, 4.69 W
will get decile ranking from school district in about a week (probs top 10%)
ACT: 35(35 math,36 science,35 english,33 reading)
SAT II Math: 800
SAT II Korean: 790
Korean Test: Level 6 (Highest level)- certifies fluency for professional work
AP tests: have 1 AP score which is a 4
IB tests: IB Math (6)
Senior Courseload: mostly IB classes (took the most rigorous courses available all through high school)

EC’s (Some are pretty strong in my opinion and I think I can write about some in one of my essays) (will have to narrow the list down)

  1. did a lot of coding stuff- knowledge in html, Javascript, Python, and I also have a portfolio of all the coding stuff I did on my computer (is there a way I could put this in as a supplement in my application?)

  2. volunteer at blood donor center(200+ hours) (10th-present)

  3. Red Cross Field Ambassador- work closely with local chapters and clubs to develop youth programs and connect with National Youth Council for Red Cross, only 1 person gets picked per region (1 year)

  4. Math tutoring- paid job at math tutoring center (9th-present) (300+ hours)

  5. got into a Biology related research program for 1 month, kind of competitive to get in

  6. Shadowing- shadowed an Oral & Maxillofacial Professor (about 40 hours, could have done more but got blocked by COVID)

  7. Summer Internship- attending online lectures about cardiothoracic surgery and skills training

  8. Youth Symphony- played violin at symphony for 8 years(got canceled last year and this year because of COVID)

  9. Leadership- doing since 9th grade, was on ASB board for 1 year, also voted as School Site Council secretary (11th-present)

  10. High School Red Cross Club- Founder and Co-president, did a blood-drive

  11. Korean School volunteer teacher- teach little kids how to speak and write Korean and teach the culture(food, holidays, songs) (close to 400 hours)(9th-present)

  12. Retirement home music volunteer- volunteer with church by playing music for elderly (about 50 hours)(9th-present)

  13. leadership positions in some academic competition clubs at school

Awards (Nothing major unfortunately)
Presidential Volunteer Award- for volunteering as a teacher at Korean school
couple of academic competition awards at county level (been competing with school club teams since 9th grade)

Recommendations ( planning on narrowing the list down)
Counselor rec- really, really close with her - 9/10
Biology teacher- not that close but did really good in her class though (I think she writes pretty good recs because she wrote a rec for a program and I got in)- 8/10
English teacher- been pretty close since 9th grade- 8/10
Math teacher- pretty close since 9th grade- 7/10
Leadership teacher- known since 9th grade, pretty close- 8/10
Chemistry teacher - she, herself, said that she’s not good at writing recs but she wrote a rec for a program and I got in- 7/10
worker at Red Cross blood center- known me pretty well since 10th grade- said she’s not good at writing recs but will try- 7/10

Essays:

  1. stuff about how I was a shy kid and challenged myself by joining leadership at the start of high school and my fear of public speaking. I’d give it a 7-8/10

Why this College essay-
(Please give me ideas!!)

I REALLY REALLY love all of these schools, but I think they might be high reaches for me. I really want to apply for Dartmouth ED, but I’m not sure I’ll get in. Give me your honest opinion.

Also don’t have to worry about tuition, my parents said that they would pay for it.

Also, I wanted to ask, if someone from my school got accepted into one of those colleges but chose not to go, will that have any effect on my admission? (this might be a stupid question but I was just wondering)

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They are all reaches, but you are a really strong candidate who has as good a shot as anyone who is unhooked. Early decision will definitely help you a lot, but you can only choose one, so you need to make sure you love your choice. You also need to come up with at least one safety school that you would be happy with attending, and some matches.

The yield from prior classes at your HS shouldn’t matter, I’m pretty sure.

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What is your budget for a full EIGHT YEARS of university? Can you afford to be full pay for four years at Dartmouth College plus another four years of medical school without taking on any debt at all? Medical school is expensive.

You are from New Jersey. Rutgers is in-state. I have studied with (in graduate school) and worked with quite a few Rutgers graduates, and all of them made Rutgers look very good. What does UNC or UVA or U.Michigan have that Rutgers does not have, other than a higher price (and more snow in the case of Michigan)?

The big name schools such as Dartmouth College and WUSTL will have a higher percentage of their students attend medical school compared to Rutgers or UVA or UNC, however, most of this (maybe all of this?) will be because of the strong high school graduates who start off at Dartmouth College or WUSTL. Basically the same students who are top students in their high school will continue to be top students in university in many (not all) cases.

The schools that you are considering for ED are all reaches. However, your stats are excellent and your ECs are also very good – particularly since COVID messed things up for everyone over the past two years. The schools that you are considering for EA are IMHO matches and NOT SAFETIES since you are out of state for all of them. You need at least one and preferably two safeties.

I do not have any premed students in my family. One daughter is currently in veterinary school (a DVM program) and the process is very similar. Also, both daughters took quite a few premed classes due to having majors that overlapped with premed, and therefore both have many friends who were premed. You do not need to spend the big bucks to attend a highly ranked university to get into a strong medical school. You do need to do very well in classes that are very tough and you do need to get quite a bit of experience in medical situations to get into medical schools.

I also am not sure that I understand what the commonality is among the various schools that you will be applying to. I think that you should definitely add Rutgers to your list. I am not completely convinced that you should apply anywhere ED unless you are very sure that you can afford a full eight years of university with very little debt and unless you are also very sure which school is your first choice.

Finally, most students who start off premed never make it to medical school. You do need to consider having an alternate plan in case things do not work out.

Also, congratulations on your really excellent work so far.

Given that you are first generation college, I will add one more thing: The top medical schools accept the very strongest students from a very wide range of universities. Again taking an example from my kids: My oldest daughter attended a university that is not quite in the top 100 in the US overall. She did really well there and now is at a DVM program that is ranked in the top 5 in the world. She has a couple of friends who were also very top students at the same university who are in highly ranked medical schools. The ranking of your undergraduate university will be far less important than (i) How you do as an undergrad student in classes that are much tougher than what you are used to; (ii) Your experience volunteering in medical situations (which I see you have already started – good job); and (iii) your references.

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Hi OP. I think you and your parents need to think about funding all of your education, undergrad and med school. It adds up to a lot and many students that are considering med school try to keep their undergraduate tuition low so that they don’t end up with crippling debt after Med school. Please keep the total cost of an education in mind when applying. Good luck!

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Being first-gen is a hook for Dartmouth, so her chances are somewhat higher.

However, Everything that @DadTwoGirls writes about funding college is also correct and extremely relevant. Anybody who needs to fund, or have their parents fund their undergraduate, with any substantial amount of money, and is not wealthy, should look for cheaper choices than the most popular private colleges.

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oh, honey. No. NJ is a very well represented state, and they really don’t care about the city.

  1. SAT II’s are done & 2) looks as if you are a heritage speaker- if so, that devalues your score from an AO pov

UNC and to a lesser extent UVa have caps on OOS students- UNC’s is 18%, including recruited athletes. Assume it’s a soft reach.

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edited

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Edit: Oh yeah I was actually definitely going to apply for Rutgers. These were the schools that I was a little unsure about.

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You’re a reach for your EDs in the sense that everyone is a reach at those institutions. You will be very competitive RD or ED at any of these schools. From a statistical standpoint, WashU is probably your best ED chance. Your GPA and ACT are above the enrolled median and first Gen college is a hook there as well. They have the highest ED acceptance rate and probably the fewest alumni/athlete/children of faculty hooks in their ED pool. Those applicants will overstate acceptance rates for people who don’t fall in those buckets. So in that sense, they’re probably the least overstated (less athlete pref than D1 and lower legacy admin).

Beyond that, Vandy is probably next and possibly higher than WashU. Their ED acceptance rates are a bit lower, but their acceptance decisions tend to be less random and more GPA/test score driven based upon nearly every scatter I’ve seen. And since you’re above the median enrolled in both of those metrics, that bodes well for you.

And just to repeat what others have said: if the plan is med school, you need to consider the 8-year cost and whether it is worth it. You can get a good education/med school prep at a lot of schools and med admissions is not prestige based. At the same time, some schools recognize the rigor at X will lead to lower GPAs and adjust accordingly.

Personally I wouldn’t ED unless:

  1. you’re absolutely in love with a school. Then ED (Dartmouth??)
  2. you’re absolutely convinced this type of environment is what you want, then ED to the school that gives you the best chance of admission (WashU??)

Purely from a med admissions perspective, 2 isn’t a valid reason, but there are some additional benefits to this type of setting if that is important to you.

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Got it thank you!

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Thank you for the advice!

I did the calculator thing on the college websites to figure out how much financial aid I could get, but the only place I can get it is at Dartmouth.

However, I actually crossed Dartmouth off my list now so it’s only down to Rice, WashU, and Vanderbilt.

My parents said that we could afford the 4 years of undergraduate without taking loans, but we might have to take a loan if I make it all the way to medical school.

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I actually crossed Dartmouth off my list now.

So it’s only down to Rice, WashU, and Vanderbilt.

Do you think I would get into Rice ED?

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You could very well get into any of those three or Dartmouth. ED or RD. From what anyone can see from your summary, that’s the only reasonable conclusion. You’re well qualified at all three.

BUT, we can’t see your entire app. We aren’t reading your essays, or LORs and we aren’t the AO. Holistic admissions is a tricky thing. Could get in? Definitely. Would get in? No idea. You are not a high reach for any of these. You are a normal reach in the high quality part of the pool that will seemingly get accepted and rejected at random based on who knows what thinking at that point in time.

-If you’re not sure you want to incur this level of undergrad expense combined with future ed, don’t ED

-If you’re okay with the expense and favor X (Rice), then ED X (Rice)

-if you’re okay with the expense and your goal is to get into any of the three, then either a) don’t ED or b) take the ED that maximizes your chance of landing at one of the three. In this case that is probably WashU. Maybe Vandy.

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Private college is gonna be as much as 80K/yr. Med school at least that, too. So if you spend 320K on college, do you have another 400K to spend on med school?

You’re a very strong candidate. No, NJ doesn’t give you geographical diversity anywhere. The rest of the country considers all of NJ, even Cape May, to be either a bedroom community for NYC, or extraordinarily poor slum cities, which I have a feeling you don’t come from.

How good are you on violin? If you are really good, consider Harvard with a music supplement. Harvard takes great pride in its orchestras.

Unless you’re considering going the MD-PhD route, consider majoring in anything other than Bio, if you have any other interest that you love. Bio majors are a dime a dozen among med school applicants. Med schools like taking engineers, language, music, history, religion, anything other than bio majors. But if your true love is bio, and you’re into basic science research, and would consider going the MD-PhD route, then that is the answer to your finances, because your entire MD-PhD would not only be free, but you’d also get paid a stipend.

Rutgers 7yr BS/MD. The College of New Jersey (which has a 7 yr undergrad/med school program too). I think you’d be a very strong candidate for either, and for you, it’s in-state tuition. Also, I cannot overemphasize the value of being able to go home for a weekend for laundry, sleep, quiet place to study, and a home-cooked meal during pre-med and med school.

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If you are living in a dorm in a university that is 5 minutes from your home it is as if you are living in a completely different world. You wake up every day on campus and surrounded by all the “stuff” that is there (whether it be a hung over freshman who had too much last night, or students dropping a pumpkin off the roof, or a party, or an intramural softball game, or club activities, or just students to talk to, or any of a very long list of other things).

Then if you need help it is close by. Painful breakups and other problems can and do occur when people are in university.

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If med school is your ultimate goal, then try to find a place where you will graduate with near perfect GPA and be at the top of the class. Med school admissions is highly dependent on MCAT and GPA.

So by going to a lower ranked college, it actually will probably help. Especially if you’re near the top. Going to a place like WashU you’ll be competing with a lot of other gunners. Also known for grade deflation. A 4.0 GPA from small liberal arts college is better than a 3.3 from a prestigious place like WashU or Rice.

Going to a smaller college also helps with more personalized letters of recc from professors. And with your stats, you will probably get merit scholarships. Keep the total cost for undergrad as low as possible.

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@p047664 did you choose where you are EDing to?

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Yes I did! I just submitted my ED app to WashU a few days ago.

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Update: I got into WashU!

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