Thanks for the tips. Both my sisters go to UMASS Amherst and Ive been there a lot…I just dont think its for me. If it is the only school I get into, I will not be happy. But I cant seem to find any safeties I love because Im the kind of person that needs to have validation that I am successful (which I would get by going to a T-20 school). Its whats brought me this far…its probably a toxic trait but what can you do. I know that there are soooooo many successful people at non T-20 schools but I feel like if I dont go to one then all of my work will have been for absolutely no reason. Thats why my list is so long and thats why they are basically all reaches (which I just learned).
“University of Massachusetts Amherst (State school, safety)”
I have been thinking of posting for a while but will now.
U.Mass Amherst is a very good university with a very good premed program. You can be very successful with a degree from U.Mass. I have worked with many excellent coworkers who graduated from there. Being in-state, with your superb stats, I agree that it is a safety (we considered it a safety for a daughter who had similar but very slightly lower stats).
Given that you have an excellent safety, it is okay for your other applications to be high matches and reaches. Personally I prefer to have two safeties, but I do think that you will have a very good university to attend in September 2020.
Perhaps the point of the pessimism that some have expressed is that you should be prepared for the possibility that you might end up with 14 rejections and 2 acceptances. However, you can only attend one university at a time. Also, your stats are excellent, and I think that you do have a chance at your various reaches.
I guess that one question that I have: Suppose that you get accepted to U.Mass in-state. You get accepted to Fordham but it is full pay, and you get rejected everywhere else. If this happens, will you feel bad that you didn’t apply to somewhere which was a smaller reach? I don’t think that you should feel bad in this case because you will have a very good university to attend, and there is little point to paying out of state costs for a school that is just as good as U.Mass at only twice the price. If you are considering premed, then there is something to be said for saving some college dollars for medical school.
While I absolutely get what you are saying here, why is T-20 this magic phrase here on College Confidential? I have never understood that. Why not T-25, or T-30, or T-40, or T-50? Why can’t that be validating? Or why not be validated by an honors college at a school even if it’s overall ranking isn’t T-20, T-30, or T-40? Why not be validated by merit scholarship money?
I think you stand a solid chance at some of your reaches. On the other hand, I also know someone who had a 1590 SAT and a stellar GPA who got rejections and waitlists at some of the places you list above. (Happily, he got off one of those waitlists and is now attending that school, but it just as easily could have worked out differently, and he was fully prepared to attend a less prestigious school.) So I think what everyone here is saying is just to make sure you have some less selective, less reachy schools that make you VERY happy, just in case!
Commit to finding some matches and safeties that you would genuinely LOVE to attend. If that school is UMASS, great. If it’s not, find one you are excited about. (I attended a conference there a couple years ago. I personally thought the UMASS Honors Community Housing looked really nice from the outside. And the food at UMASS is considered some of the best in the country.)
In terms of matches…
Why not include a school like Boston University, Northeastern, Case Western, Tulane? Those are all still seriously prestigious schools and they are more in match territory for you. According to this big fat Princeton Review The Best 385 Colleges book, here are some Range ACT composites:
Boston University 30-33
Northeastern 32-34
Case Western 30-34
Tulane 30-33
Best wishes!
I think you should add some schools that give automatic merit for your stats. Sure you’ll feel validated if you are accepted to a T-20 school, but wouldn’t it feel pretty good to get a full tuition scholarship at a school that might be ranked #33 or #47? Wouldn’t it be nice to find a school that would give you money and the honors college and special research opportunity? Wouldn’t it be nice to choose UMass rather than have to take it as your only acceptance?
Just remember the math.
Most schools on your lists will have 50 percent of the class apportioned to others before you are considered.
Athletes. Donors. Underrepresented minorities. Pell. Some overlap of course.
But this is rough cut to build your expectations. Then another 5 to 10 percent from overseas.
In real terms that leaves roughly 40 percent. 20 percent per gender. It’s a much much smaller pool for most applicants than realized.
That’s why I think the middle 50 percent ranges are useful but build up so many misunderstandings and hard feelings. It’s a guide to show you are competitive.
But you have to have realism as to where your competition resides.
Although many athletes and the other groups mentioned occupy the top levels statistically as well, the numbers aka the Harvard lawsuit show that for unhooked students you are competing against a different range. It’s much higher.
So I like your list. Your great scores and world class gpa could make any of these a reality. You could also strike out. My guess is the usually confusing mix of acceptances Wait lists and declinations. None of this will be about your core stats which are excellent. It will be all the other little things that you can’t control. Ecs and recommendations will be important too.
In the end I went to Massachusetts and loved it. Life has been very good to me since and I made a lot of connections with class mates. I thought it was huge until I visited Michigan and OSU type schools. It’s mid size of the larger schools.
D attends one of the others on your list and she absolutely loves it too. So don’t despair, it will all work out.
However every single school on your list with the exception of Massachusetts and Fordham is a reach.
Even Tulane if you don’t apply Ed 1 or 2 and show them a lot of interest isn’t a match.
Use Ed 2 strategically ,if you can, and ed 1 or REA at your clear favorite. It will make a difference. Only Georgetown seems to not give ea a boost imho.
“I considered Emory, but Georgia is very far from home. Maybe I should reconsider.”
Emory is less than 20 minutes from the world’s largest and busiest airport. You can fly directly anywhere… and there is a metro train station in the terminal if you don’t want to uber.
Flight from Boston to Atlanta (3hr) $100.
Ann Arbor is an hour from Detroit.
I haven’t really considered Tulane. I do know they mysteriously reject a lot of people with really good stats that are then accepted into multiple ivies.
I was considering Northeastern, but not a fan of the city campus feel which is also why I am not applying to NYU or BU (I have visited both).
As for schools that will give me automatic merit, I’m hoping William & Mary may help me out. I am also applying for merit scholarships at Michigan and (I just added Rochester to my list and removed BC) I am applying early to U of Rochester to be considered for scholarships there.
As for Emory, at this point my list is too long. I don’t have a school that I want to replace with Emory… any suggestions? I simply don’t have the time to do all of these interviews and supplements (also the application expenses). So which one would I hypothetically replace it with?
Also, any tips on Johns Hopkins application? It is probably my second choice as it is amazing for pre-med and my favorite teacher (who is writing one of my recommendations, should be an amazing rec because we are very close, I run a club with him) went there and talks about how much he loves it. I’m hoping to visit soon but I really have no time anymore.
You need to get over measuring this way. Applicants who find validation in prestige, rank, etc, are on shaky ground when TT adcoms sniff it. (In real life, too.)
And you need to know a lot more about targets in order to match yourself. You choose the targets, but they choose the class.
When my D15 looked at William and Mary, I called to inquire about fin aid & scholarships, and was told it was unlikely for out of state applicants. Was told to budget $25k per semester.
I don’t see an auto merit award for out of state.
https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/costs-aid/scholarship/index.php
See William and Mary list of 1693 Scholars, for example.
https://www.wm.edu/as/1693scholars/current/index.php
It’s not exactly validation, but it’s the fact that I have this deeply-rooted motivation to be successful and have an extremely fulfilling career that I know I worked hard for. I just want to have an amazing education that prepares me for it. The way I said it sounded very unhealthy but it’s not what I meant. I just want the validation that my hard work paid off. That’s why all good students ARE good students.
“I have this deeply-rooted motivation to be successful”
“I’m interested in biology/pre-med”
Neither of my daughters are premed. However, they both have majors that overlap quite a bit with premed students, and as such have taken multiple classes that might be considered premed classes.
You are going to find that premed classes are tougher than you expected. I have heard multiple stories of exams where the class average was in the 40’s, and this is for a class full of top students who all thought that they could become doctors. Most of them had high school stats not so far off from yours.
If you are premed, then IMHO you need to “keep your eye on the prize”. The prize in this case is acceptance to medical school. To do this, there are several things that are essential, including: (i) Get a high GPA that puts you near the top of your class in exceptionally difficult classes; (ii) Keep some money in the bank for medical school.
If you manage to get accepted to a university where you are in the bottom half of the incoming students in terms of stats, this will just make it less likely for you to be in the top 1/4 of your university class.
My interpretation of this is that university admission for high school students who want to be premed should be easy and boring. They should aim to attend a university where they are in the top 1/4 of incoming students, and then they should expect that classes are going to be a lot tougher than anything that they have ever seen in their life, and they should aim to be in the top 1/4 in these tough classes.
You have the stats for U.Mass Amherst and UVM to be safeties. Both have very strong premed programs. Both are “boring” in terms of you know that you will get in and can expect to get into the honors college (and for UVM a presidential merit scholarship should be highly likely). You would find classes to be very tough at either school. At either school there will be other students who are not as strong as you, but that is okay. There will also be other students who are just as strong as you (remember that a lot of MIT and Harvard graduates stayed in Massachusetts, and you will be competing with their kids).
@benandjerrys101 Your academic record is strong. However, at schools with low (<20%) acceptance rates, there’s no way to predict if you’ll be among those accepted. I see no harm in applying to your favorite reaches as long as you keep your expectations realistic. However, as you would not be happy at UMASS-Amherst, try to identify a few more safeties/matches that you would enjoy and that your family can afford. (Fordham is not a safety, BTW)
A state school with an Honors Program can be a great option. You would be surrounded by other motivated, high stats students who are attending for myriad reasons, including cost. I agree with @DadTwoGirls - maybe look to see if U of Vermont appeals?
Subject tests: you will have a total of 3; for schools that allow score choice, maybe send the best two? For Bio did you take E or M? Scores on E tend to be a bit lower. Either way, a 730 is respectable, IMO.
If you are concerned about costs as a pre-med student, some mid sized schools that offer merit scholarships include Case Western and Rochester (mentioned upthread). You might also take a look at U Richmond. I would classify these as lower reaches than the options you currently have.
I am sure you’ll do well, wherever you land. A more balanced list, however, is likely to result in more choices. Best of luck to you.
p.s. I know a high-stats girl (pre-med) who got shut out of her reaches, ended up at UMASS honors, and after a year said it was the best thing that could have happened to her. She was very happy there.
I am applying to Rochester, which I feel good about. Unfortunately, I could not get an interview as they are all taken…hopefully that won’t hurt my chances?
UVM does not really appeal to me
Also I know pre-med classes are extremely challenging. My sister wasn’t pre-med, but a bio major. She failed Organic chem at UMASS Amherst (honors college). I am fully prepared to have these experiences. Good thing I am motivated by failure. (One thing to note, the salutatorian of my highschools 2019 class was not accepted into the honors college at UMASS… I know my class is more competitive but this surprises me because my sister was nowhere near the top of her class and got into the honors college 4 years ago. He eventually got off the waitlist at Tufts and decided to go there but still.)
Also, if I am likely rejected from most if not all of my reaches, I will be happy to attend Rochester, Fordham, Lehigh, or William & Mary (which is still a bit of a reach but I think it willl turn out okay). Also… how is Fordham not a safety? @mamaedefamilia They offered me a free app (which I know they do to a lot of students but, still) and I believe my stats are wayyyy above the average (Their 75th percentile ACT is a 31… and their average GPA is a 3.64). Also, they accept a lot of students from my school. This comment threw me off as other people on this thread said I was a shoe-in.
Anyways, thanks for all of the tips. I am submitting my 3 early apps tomorrow and am very excited to start this journey! No matter what happens, I know I’ll end up somewhere where I can be both happy and successful. I will keep the thread updated when my decisions roll in!
And I took E for biology. Not sure why I panicked and just chose that. And then I filled out some M questions with my extra time hahaha for no reason
I don’t think you are application is coherent. You are applying to Pre-mid but you’re ECs don’t show any passion for that, neither do your scores. Try find something you can highlight in your application that shows your passion for Bio. Also, your list is all reaches find more matches and safeties
@Nasir7 I was thinking that about my application too. But there really aren’t science ECs at my school. And I don’t know any student from my school (even those that are also pursuing bio like me) that has entered any science competitions or done anything science related outside of school. I guess I should have been more proactive. But honestly, I am unsure if pre-med is for me yet. I don’t know if I’ll be able to keep up with the kids that naturally excel at it. I thought I did, but as many have pointed out my test scores don’t reflect that.
For one thing, I am an excellent writer and always have been. I had my common app essay read over by a college counselor, graduate from Yale, and it brought her to tears. I also always excelled in my AP English classes getting 9s on basically every essay. I’ve always been an extremely fast and talented reader as well. But I can’t picture myself in a career centering around this. On the other hand, I have always wanted to be in the medical world, changing people’s lives and making breakthroughs. I guess I lack a natural talent and I’m afraid this will not be good for my intended major. But this is a whole other question.
I’m choosing pre-med because it sounds like the most fulfilling career to me… and specifically neurology because it relates to a personal family issue I have recently experienced. But maybe I should use my natural ability in English? I really do not know.
I really love creative writing. It makes me really happy and I enjoy it so much, but what careers are there in that? Everyone knows how writing books goes, especially now when barely anyone reads anymore. I just don’t know.
This thread is an absolute mess and I feel very discouraged.
Don’t be discouraged. No one can tell you whether you’ll get in or not. Schools generally like students who excel in one particular area, but that doesn’t mean people like you don’t get admitted. having a specific target and focusing, while proving you’re excellence in it by ECs and grades is a generally effective method for gaining admission, but not the only one. Many people who yet are not sure about what they want to focus on still get admitted. Some universities even have “undeclared” as the most common major in their applications. Just make sure that you focus on showing who you are and what you’re passionate about in your essays. Be careful though, you would want to write a creative narrative, but forget to make specific about yourself. Don’t be discouraged and good luck!
I would take JHU off the list. It’s not a fun school and it is fairly cut throat for pre-med. My kid’s best friend went there as a pre-med, and I have few nephew/friend’s kid/in-laws who also went there.
Princeton has been focusing more on performing arts students since a big donor gave them money for performing arts, so you may have a good chance there. At the same time, I am wondering if you should ED at NU or its peers.
Sorry, NU? @oldfort
And I love JHU. I want a cutthroat environment, as weird as that sounds. Unfortunately, I don’t think my chances are too high anyway so it probably won’t mattter.