Chance me? Low GPA but good EC(?)

Gender: Female

Race: Asian

GPA: 4.19 weighted (no unweighted; 4.3 scale with A = 4.3, but AP classes have +1 and honors have +0.5)
(also note that my grades in freshman year were all As except one B; in sophomore year they fell quite drastically, and in junior year I either maintained or improved my grades. I have no idea how senior year will go, but so far I haven’t been doing that well, especially in Calculus BC. I have all As and Bs.)

AP Classes I’ve taken: Sophomore year (World History-4, Biology-4), Junior Year (U.S. History-5, English Language-5, Chemistry-3, Environmental Science-5, Calculus AB-5), Senior Year (Economics, English Literature, French Language, Physics C Mechanics, Calculus BC) I also took the Music theory exam (self-studied) and got a 3. (Note: I received AP Scholar with Distinction)

ACT score: 35 composite, 35 math, 35 writing, 34 reading, 35 science

SAT II scores I’m sending: Math II (750), Biology E/M (740)

Extracurriculars:

  • played instrument since 7 (over 10 years playing)
  • went to Boston University’s Tanglewood Institute String Quartet Workshop twice (only 5 musicians for my instrument picked internationally)
  • went to Carnegie Hall’s NYO2 twice, leadership position both times
  • won awards in two international competitions (note: not well-known)
  • won many regional competitions, performed with regional orchestras multiple times
  • principal for 2 years, associate principal for 1 year of well-known youth orchestra (one of nation’s best)
  • volunteered over 100 hours during junior year at hospital
  • interned sophomore year at young orchestra and volunteered at school-related events
  • went to CTY JHU; Gifted and Talented Search Student

School-related:

  • received Distinguished Honors at school
  • part of school newspaper (10th-12th), student council (9th-11th), Interact Club (10th-12th), NHS (11th-12th), Tri-M Music Honor Society (9th-10th), Girls Up/Feminist Alliance (11th-12th)

Recommendations:

  • one for English and one for science: I think my English teacher wrote me a strong rec but I’m not sure about my Bio teacher.
  • 3 recommendations from outside: my orchestra conductor, my private teacher, and one from my music camp director/conductor, I think they’ll all write excellent recs for me, and my private teacher and camp director are both pretty renowned musicians

What I want to Major in:

  • biology (immunology, microbiology, biomedical science in particular)

How many A+'s, A’s, A-'s, and B’s do you have? Do you know where you rank in your high school?

Your stated GPA doesn’t work on the scale that I am used to if you have any B’s at all so I am suspecting that your high school calculates GPA very differently compared to schools where I live.

I don’t see anything in your post which makes me think that you are going to be able to get into Princeton or equivalent schools, but I may be missing something.

My As and my Bs are pretty evenly divided… which is why I’m pretty hesitant on Princeton. Again, I took a lot of AP courses but my GPA isn’t that good. I do a lot of music and have national and international achievements in music, which is why I think I may have a small chance.

Well assuming that your unweighted GPA is 3.7 (that’s a pretty generous guess) your grades are going to be your downfall. A downward trend is not a good sign either. I think this is the main roadblock behind acceptance unless grades like this are the norm in your school and you actually rank highly (comfortably in top 10%) but this is unlikely and still not a great excuse.

It’s awesome that you have found success in music, but especially for something popular like a string instrument (it’s gotta be violin, viola, or cello for you, right? All of these are competitive), there are going to be people applying that have just as much success but higher grades.

By the way, admissions officers will hate reading THREE additional recommendations, all of which probably say the same thing: that you’re a great musician and work hard. You should only send in one of these, probably the private teacher as they both know you well and have clout as a musician (but choose whoever knows you best).

If there are circumstances behind your grades, I would make sure your guidance counselor goes over them in their rec letter, and/or mention them in “Additional Info”. Otherwise, I’d recommend that you write a fiercely passionate essay, and apply somewhere slightly less selective. (You can try applying to Princeton, but don’t expect anything out of it) I found this good article: https://www.koppelmangroup.com/blog/2018/3/19/schools-similar-to-princeton

(Also, I wouldn’t report the 3 in Music Theory, it only seems to hurt your case)

I think that you need to spend nearly all of your time either keeping ahead in your classes, or thinking about universities and colleges which are a lot easier to get into than Princeton. You can send in an application to Princeton if you want to, but don’t get your hopes up. You should be hoping to get into something more along the lines of your in-state public flagship (unless you are from California, in which case UCB and UCLA would also be unlikely). Depending upon what state you are in, you might or might not be able to think of your in-state public flagship as a safety versus a likely match or even a reach.

If you do end up at Princeton, you should be aware that you will be walking into a situation where nearly every other student in the university is coming in with a GPA which is significantly higher than yours. Any of HYPMS is going to be a lot more difficult than high school (and we could say the same about probably 20 other universities as well).

Princeton has many musical performing groups. You should submit an optional arts supplement. Your performance will be evaluated by a musician in the music department – not by the admissions department. Your test scores are competitive. If you had personal issues that caused a drop in your grades I would explain that in your essay. Good Luck!

OP, it would be helpful if you answered the questions other posters have asked re: unweighted GPA and class rank. You can calculate your unweighted GPA. Use the 4 point scale (A+, A, A- = 4.0, B+,B, B- = 3.0, etc.) and include core classes only, no electives, no gym, etc. If as you say your As and Bs are pretty evenly divided, so say 3.5 unw. GPA, princeton admit will be more difficult than its average acceptance rate.

For a stem major, what math or science ECs?
The AP chem 3 and bio 4 make this tough, on top of the EC issue. You should realize your three extra recs are not academic LoRs and that P only asks for two, total.

If you have less than A in cores, this becomes harder- and especially if those are stem classes, for a stem hopeful. The competition is crazy fierce. The kids fir whom extensive music would be a tip are also strong in every other way.

Thank you for the feedback!
I know realistically I have marginal chances of getting in because of my grades. I’m not sure whether or not I should explain the drop in grades because personally, I went through depression sophomore year, which I thought they might just see as an excuse instead of a valid reason. I was doing horribly in two classes that year, World History and Pre-Calc, and they were probably the toughest courses I’ve ever taken. For World History, the readings were immense and the quizzes always brought our grades down (think everyone usually getting Cs or Ds, if not Fs for the quizzes). Almost no one got above an A-, even those with all A averages. In Pre-Calc, my teacher didn’t like my personally and usually displayed that on my tests. We never had quizzes in class (everything was a test). Again, this wasn’t a class many people did well in.
As for my other classes in junior year, in particular I did horrible in AP Chem (dropping my GPA a lot). I actually got an A- in AP Chem the 1st marking period, but my teacher left for … reasons before the end of the 1st marking period. We got a new teacher for AP Chem (who did teach AP before, but 5 years before), and in my opinion, didn’t teach quite that well/didn’t match with me well. I did horrible the rest of the year (as did many people, it was really divided between either doing well and getting all As or getting all Ds) and didn’t really learn much (evident in my AP score…) I did score a 720 on the Chemistry SAT II, but I’m definitely not submitting that because I did better on biology.
I’m just not quite sure if my circumstances were concerns legit enough for Princeton’s evaluation. It seems a bit subjective to me, and it’s hard to explain, because my sophomore year was a disaster that was a positive feedback circle.
Also, I don’t have any science or math ECs. I know this is quite the drawback, but I received the highest grades in my Honors and AP biology classes (at least, haha…).
I’m not sure of my class ranking either because my school doesn’t have this (and there’s no way to check). We don’t have unweighted GPAs either.
Also, I am definitely submitting an arts supplement, I haven’t decided what to submit yet though.

You can have your guidance counselor address your struggle with depression in the LOR. That said, your above posts shows struggles outside of sophomore year and “hard or new” teachers isn’t an excuse that is going to fly. Certainly apply to Princeton as your reach, but focus more on finding exciting match and safety schools. They do exist!

Do you know how to address this then? I’m just not sure if it was a legit reason, and my guidance counselor didn’t know about it.
Also yes haha I was pretty sure my “hard teachers” weren’t going to fly, but I was still curious if my teacher suddenly leaving would be a reason…
I already have my college list, and my state colleges are all safeties for me. I have a few targets (both high and lowt) in the #20-40 range of the US News rankings.

I would set up an appointment, as soon as possible. with you GC to discuss the situation.

Thank you for the information! I have a meeting with her next Monday anyways, I’ll make sure I remember to mention it then.

Does Princeton accept supplemental LORs? If they do, I would limit it to one non-academic LOR – sending three supplemental LORs about your musical talent/achievements is overkill. You may want to consider a music supplement which Princeton does accept. http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/2105324-chance-me-low-gpa-but-good-ec.html#latest

I honestly don’t think your grades are as bad as you think. Even with a 5.0, you wouldn’t have a surefire chance of getting into some ivy leagues, because they consider a lot of other factors. The average unweighted at Princeton is 3.9, which means you probably wouldn’t be far off. It’s not a surefire thing, but if you do have a great essay with a great hook, you’ll probably have some chance. Let us know how it goes:)

@joanofdarc you cant really look at averages at these schools. You really need to look at the top 25% if you are unhooked. Averages include lower scoring students like URMs, 1st gen, legacies, athletes and so forth. For example the average SAT might be 1500 but the top 25% is probably high 1500s I cant remember the exact number. I will check.

I’m going to be frank with you because I think you need a reality check: you’ve spent a lot of time on your musical ECs which I am sure are superb. However, the colleges (ivies) are going to compare your grades with other students, who are also have musically-inclined, award talents with higher grades and bio ECs. They will wonder if you can handle their intense classes and coursework since your time, spent on your stringed instruments, may have adversely impacted your grades. Princeton will select the student that can do both without excuses.

The readings at any college will be “immense”. Worse and more so at an ivy.

In college, professors don’t and won’t care whether or not they “like” you when they score your tests. At an ivy, the kids who get in, know this, and will perform well, regardless of (feelings) and liking the professors.

So, in order for you to do well, the professors have to teach and match you?

Guess what? Some world-renowned professors who work and conduct research at the Ivies are the tops in their fields, but they can’t teach their subject matter at ALL!

Don’t pick a school because it’s a status thing. I know that you are probably being pushed by strong Asian parents. Remember, there are a lot of other parents pushing their children with perfect GPA’s, test scores, and “research” bio ECs planning on med schools.

Maybe take a look also at the joint Tufts and NEC program? https://necmusic.edu/dual-degree-programs

Hello, thank you for all the comments! I definitely know my GPA is low for Princeton, but I do have a special circumstance with mental health in sophomore year that let it drop a lot overall. This will be addressed in my guidance counselor’s rec and my additional information section.
And yes, I do know my chances are not great! In honesty, probably on the low spectrum! However, it’s always worth a try!
The reason I want to go to Princeton is not because of its status, but because I think I would fit well there. There are plenty of colleges I have on my list I would be happy going to (that are much easier than Princeton), but I believe I’d be the happiest at Princeton, which is why I am applying early.
Again, thank you for the help and suggestions!

The depression isn’t a special circumstance in terms of tipping you in. Adcoms look at grades as representative of learning the material. A building block for courses to come. None of this is about a gut feeling you’d thrive at one school. You need to dig in and see what they like, what they want in their class. And then carefully self-match. Admits come when they choose a student, not the other way around.

Sure, you can try, but be as informed as you can be, so you can make a solid presentation in your app. The explanation will give context, but not excuse the grades.You want a stem major and have a 3 score in chem, no math-sci ECs. The competition is fierce.

Plus, calculate your unweighted GPA on a four point scale, the ordinary way. A = 4, B = 3, etc.