Realistically, that’s likely where I’ll end up going. I know I stated that I don’t mind going into debt too much, but I’d very much like to avoid it if possible. Thanks for your advice. I’ll be taking it to heart.
2 Likes
Do not go into debt for a biology degree.
A PhD program should be funded, but other programs will not (some may provide a little merit).
Regardless, if your goal is academia it is wise to avoid debt if possible.
1 Like
I’m all good for SLU though I likely wont be able to afford my some of the other schools as you’ve pointed out. However, there will likely be third party or merit based scholarships I can take advantage of which is why I’ll still apply to them. If I don’t get any, then at least I’ll be able to say I could have gone to prestigious schools which may help me out when applying for graduate programs or internships.
I have taken physics and 4 years of foreign language.
When you say my list is all over the place, do you mean my college list or my extracurriculars? Also, I prefer research colleges, but I’m not opposed to liberal arts colleges.
Apply to local. They are small. Applying to nationwide scholarships is a time suck and fruitless.
Your parents employers may offer scholarships.
Have you done the NPC for your reaches? What do they say ?
If you want small, Truman State is well thought of.
1 Like
Being able to say that you were accepted to a “prestigious” school but did not attend due to cost… will have no impact on graduate school acceptances and internship offers (not sure I am understanding you correctly).
That will be on you and what you do and take advantage of.
3 Likes
Upon closer inspection, you’d be correct regarding employers or internship opportunities. However, it does appear that it can help when applying to graduate schools (though I don’t know this with absolute certainty).
The school name on your diploma will not matter when applying to grad school.
Being able to say you were accepted but did not attend due to costs… will not matter for grad school.
What will matter (I assume for biology)? Research positions, letters of recommendations, any publications, volunteering (if appropriate for the degree) etc.
Is there a reason why you believe school name will help with grad school admissions?
2 Likes
What ? Where you get in undergrad may be a source of personal pride but will have zero impact where you get in for grad school. Zero.
1 Like
I see. May I ask how you know if it’s not too impertinent of me?
Also, regarding your last question, if one applies to a prestigious school but doesn’t attend, I feel as though it would show that the student acheived a level of excellence and (likely) continued to exhibit that exilance throughout their undergraduate program. Declining the initial acceptance shows that the student isn’t chasing lables, but is instead showing that they have the wisdom to make choices that would be better for them in the long run. They’re making an wise personal/economic decision, while not letting go of the dream or their aspirations.
If a HS student applies to a “prestigious” college and is accepted, but does not attend due to costs (happens all the time), there is no way that a graduate program will know or care. It is meaningless. They will only care about what you did while at your chosen school, or if if you choose to work before attending grad school.
Many students are accepted to a school such as Cornell (only using this as an example) and attend their state school. What matters is what you do/did while there.
We are talking about biology, yes?
1 Like
Many people turn down “more prestigious” colleges than they attend. Both of mine chose the ultimate safeties over reaches. One got into 17 schools but chose to attend #16 of #17.
By the way, better or more prestigious - that’s ranking, etc. and that sells magazines. There’s really not a top 20 or better.
There are “Ivy League” kids at Mizzou - but chose to attend Mizzou for other reasons. Most may choose a school based on cost or location. Or Honors, etc.
My kids chose based on - one got his own room and the other just loved the school she accepted. When we visited, I knew that would be the one even though we probably saw 20-30 more after.
I don’t disagree with you what it shows (to you) but who else would know? It won’t ever come up on a grad school or job app. One you get to where you are going - Williams, Mizzou or otherwise - you’ll create your path. There’s zero reason, other than self pride, to apply to a school you can’t afford.
Are you going to put on your resume:
BS, Biological Sciences, Mizzou
Also admitted to U Chicago but turned down.
That’s sort of what I’m getting at. For your confidence - that I get. Growing up, I was desperate to get into a UC so I could say I did with my 2.8 and I did. They didn’t have my major. I never considered the school - but I did get in and well, I guess for pride (at the time).
Did you know, last year Harvard had 170+ schools represented in its law school this year near 150. For MBA - I have o count again but I think it’s 160.
What you do in school will be what matters for grad school vs. where you go. Schools like Oakland, Ohio Wesleyan, Fairleigh Dickinson, University of wherever get into these schools.
Now, most PhD students may come from elite schools - but that’s because they were able to get in to begin with - a top tester, rigor taker in HS will be in college vs. the school they go.
And just look at some profs - look at Mizzou for example - very good school.
PHD - Wayne State (in Detroit)
Maryland, then PhD UNC
Simpson College, then PhD OK State
PhD Mizzou - no undergrad listed
PhD UGA - no undergrad listed
It’s hard to find undergrad at a lot of schools as they don’t list them but you’d be fine at Mizzou.
And obviously Williams, Chicago are great but they’re not affordable (and frankly, given your self recognized lack of rigor, not realistic anyway).
OK - whatever you decide is fine - but I don’t want you to be under false hope that getting in somewhere and saying no will help you get in somewhere later.
2 Likes
This won’t help you when you apply to grad schools at.all. The grad schools will care about what you did as an undergrad wherever you attend. Any other place where you were accepted won’t be a consideration at all when you apply to grad schools or internships. Please put that notion out of your head.
1 Like
Fair enough. Thanks for telling me.
1 Like
It seems you are looking to major in biology and then attend a graduate program in biology. My daughter majored in biology as well.
Find an affordable school, develop relationships with your professors, get involved in research and other things, and enjoy your time.
4 Likes
Noted. Thanks for your help.
2 Likes
Any PHD worth doing will be funded (you’ll get tuition off + a stipend.)
Can you run the NPC on
- Williams
- UMichigan
- Denison
- St Olaf
UMichigan meets need for families making 95K or less. Williams is extremely generous even for families making 250K. Denison meets need.
So, if you can tell us how much each of the 3 costs, we can estimate whether meet-need colleges are in the picture or if you need to focus on merit.
Don’t forget to apply to Honors Colleges at all large universities.
At UMichigan, rather than biology, look into the Health Policy Sciences BS degree or any of the following majors
If you’re really set on biology, look at all the specialties at UMich &make sure to include courses in statistics and/or data science and/or informatics.
Your targets will not be affordable, that’s why it’s important you run the NPC on Denison and St Olaf (both good for biology).
Note:
Liberal Arts Colleges have research where undergraduate students are involved. Outside of NESCAC and Patriot League, sports are where your friends play or that you can participate in. Classes are small and you know your professors.
Large state universities (like Mizzou) have research also, usually with bigger grants&labs, involving several grad students and some undergrads. Most intro classes are large lecture classes with one discussion section typically led by a grad student. There are big sports you can watch in big stadiums with athletes who have their own compound, training schedule, and hopes for a future as pros.
1 Like
Do you know what your family can pay? You do not need to share that info but it is important to know.
Added: I see your family can pay $25,000 a year. It is important that you use the NPCs and see if your reach schools are affordable. I also think it is important to look at your other schools and see if merit is realistic. Mizzou is your state school and if it’s affordable and you would be happy there, it’s a great safety.
I would think long and hard about Williams. It is the polar opposite of Mizzou in just about every way.
1 Like
subsidiary question: is Mizzou your “ideal” safety?
what do you like about your reaches?
Please run the NPC on the 4 colleges listed and indicate whether they’re affordable; if possible, describe what you hope for in a college (big spectator sports, close to home, new region of the country, discussion-based classes, experientiall learning, etc.)
I agree with what others are saying. Where you get your undergrad degree won’t matter if you’re wanting to do a PhD in a bio-related field. You shouldn’t do a PhD program without a guarantee of full funding and a stipend for the duration. There are plenty.
I am a biology professor. I personally know several bio-type profs at Mizzou. There is world-class research going on there, and at any other R1 (big research) institution. You can prepare for grad school just as well at smaller schools as well – you can still do research and you can try for summer REU programs to get a big school research experience.
Focus on getting into a college that is financially affordable and is a good fit for you personally. Do the best you can in your program, join bio-related clubs, try to get into a lab to do research early. Stick with the same lab if it’s a good fit. Develop relationships with that supervisor and a couple other professors. That’s what gets you into a good PhD program, and helps you figure out what you even want to do.
Best of luck – ignore the pull of prestige and focus on fit and finances.
6 Likes