CHANCE ME Re: Can I get into T20s (UPenn, MIT, Caltech, Duke, GATech, CMU, etc) with a 3.7 GPA?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

I made a post yesterday on this and got varying answers, so I decided to put my whole profile up for a “chance me.”
My post:

I have a 1580 SAT, AIME qualifications and achievement roll, and 5s in Calculus. I also have As for the most part besides chem, physics, and statistics (where I got an A+ at a university, and 5 on the exam). But due to the passing of my boyfriend during summer, I ended up getting an F in a dual enrollment Calc III course.
Can I still get in? How do I explain this in the additional info section? Should I put some proof?
Does this completely ruin my application :(?

What I’m mainly looking for is admittance to schools like GATech, NWU, UWash, etc. But also, I want to know if I am even competitive anymore for the top techs and Ivies (should I have hope?)

Here’s my profile:

INTENDED MAJORS:

California Institute of Technology (Early Action)
Computational and Neural Systems

Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Early Action)
Computer Science, Economics, and Data Science

University of Pennsylvania (Regular Decision)
Computer and Information Science

Georgia Institute of Technology (Early Action)
Math (Discrete Math)

CMU (Early Action)
Comp Sci

I have a few others like Brown (applied math), Northwestern (computer science), Princeton (ORFE), Duke (data science).

I also have three safeties, don’t worry, but I’m not stating them as two are local. One is 100% guaranteed as my parents work there (I believe).

GPA

3.7 UW 4.89 W.

B’s in AP Physics, Stats, Honors Chem, English. I redeemed myself in physics and stats by getting 5s in the exams and also an A+ in a statistics course at a university.

F in Calc III dual enrollment.

SAT

1580 (800 math 780 english)

DEMOGRAPHICS

white, female, jewish, im two yrs advanced so 15 at time of application, both parents completed graduate school, income ~145k

COURSEWORK:

3 years of chinese (honors)
3 years of creative writing (honors)

AP calculus AB (5)
AB calculus BC (5)
AP statistics (5)

AP physics C (5)

AP english language (5)

AP world history (4)
AP euro history (5)
AP art history (5)
AP us history (5)

AP comparative government (5)

This year: AP Bio, Drawing, Macroeconomics, US Gov, Comp Sci A, Literature

EXTRACURRICULARS:

Activity 1

Position/Leadership Description
Member, Vice President of Competitions (10th)

Organization Name
Mu Alpha Theta (Math Club)

Coordinated school preparation for multiple competitions, two-time “Mathematics Student of the Year” award (9th,11th), coached freshmen for AMC/MAO

Hours spent per week
4
Weeks spent per year
35

Activity 2

Position/Leadership descriptions
Software Development Intern

Organization Name
[***]

Used SQL, Python, and HTML/CSS/JS to extract, analyze, and display data for various clients. Helped build a computer vision system using TensorFlow.

Hours spent per week
20
Weeks spent per year
15

Activity 3

Position/Leadership description
Project Data Visualizer

Organization Name
Coronavirus Visualization Team

Inequalities project: extracted and visualized data for articles regarding education and food insecurity during COVID19 with Python, Tableau.

Hours spent per week
5
Weeks spent per year
40

Activity 4

Position/Leadership description
Speaker and Instructor

Organization Name
XPlainED

Presented for a seminar on scientific computing with Python, introducing SciPy, Matplotlib, and various crucial algorithms. Instructed daily labs. 100+ participants

Hours spent per week
5
Weeks spent per year
2

Activity 5
Position/Leadership description
Member, Secretary

Organization Name
Chess Club

Coordinated school-wide tournaments, 13 personal USCF tournament trophies, highest scorer on school competition team qualification exam

Hours spent per week
3
Weeks spent per year
35

Activity 6
Position/Leadership description
Lead Tutor for Mathematics and Chess

Organization Name
XplainED

Introduced grade schoolers to advanced topics like combinatorics from a simplified perspective and instructed chess club with original curriculum.

Hours spent per week
5
Weeks spent per year
15

Activity 7

Position/Leadership description
Student

Organization Name
AoPs, edX, etc

Took advanced mathematics courses in combinatorics, probability, advanced algebra and precalculus, group theory, statistics, and more.

Hours spent per week
35
Weeks spent per year
10

Activity 8

Position/Leadership description
Website Developer

Organization Name
[***]

Made website for student-led educational publication including articles in mathematics, history, and foreign language.

Hours spent per week
2
Weeks spent per year
35

Activity 9

Position/Leadership description
Member

Organization Name
Social Studies National Honor Society

Participated in History Bowl Competitions (2 time team national qualification) and presented history lectures to the club.

Hours spent per week
3
Weeks spent per year
35

Activity 10

Position/Leadership description
Assistant Teacher

Organization Name
[***] Elementary School

Assisted my high-school Chinese teacher who works part-time at the elementary school in instructing his students. Led practice dialogues.

Hours spent per week
3

5 CHOSEN HONORS:

AMC10 + AMC12 Distinction Roll, Achievement Roll, AIME qualification, School Merit Roll (3x)

History Bowl State Team Seminifinalist, Finalist, National Finals qualifier

USACO Silver Division

Scholastic Art and Writing: 2 Gold Keys, 1 Silver Key, 2 Honorable Mentions

Regional mu alpha theta precalc division 2nd place

EXTRA: i have a common app draft, pretty good i guess? You could check it out

my recs will probably be pretty good, 7/10 for one teacher and 9/10 for the other. Counselor is said to write good letters, 6/10

lmk if u need more info!

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I think you still have an excellent shot at acceptance anywhere. Spend some time with your guidance counselor, and let the GC write about your loss, not you. The F in Calc III could be redeemed by that. Meanwhile, how many people even take Calc III in high school, let alone when they’re 15 and in 11th grade?

You definitely want to submit those AP scores - they’re very impressive, and in my opinion, do offset any B’s in classes. Honestly, I think that the biggest handicap that you have is your age. I can just hear an admissions committee discussing that you are brilliant, but young, maybe not quite mature enough to admit yet.

Is there anything useful that you could do for a year, and apply in the subsequent year? Maybe spend a year abroad in China, polishing your spoken Chinese, and studying Comp Sci?

Another option is to start off at the school where your parents work (free?), and then transfer after a year. Ivies will give you a ton of fin aid, unless your parents have significant assets.

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Thanks for the kind words! By having my GC write about it, do you mean he should support it in my recommendation letter (and if he does, do I still put it in the additional information section?).

I wanted to do a gap year in China, actually, but my parents are against it. They’ve encouraged the idea of a transfer application after 2 years at their school, but I’m a bit skeptical, aren’t transfers into Ivies very difficult?

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You sound like a brilliant student and I don’t think the F will hold you back. On the other hand, you may be rejected because of your age and fears about your maturity level - it won’t be because you wouldn’t excel academically. I second the idea of a gap year - it would certainly increase your chances of acceptance at top schools.

5

Gap year yes, transfer no. Most selective schools only admit a tiny, tiny number of transfers. Remember those are those schools that are retaining 96-97% of the class from year-to-year. If freshman year yield was more than expected, they might need only 0-4 students to top off the sophomore class. Something to try, but not something to plan on.

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Do you agree my chances are lower due to my age?

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I do not really know much about how age would factor in. But a gap year with positive experiences could be a plus on applications, whereas I think the transfer option is a difficult road. Also, you can get actual transfer acceptance rates and numbers from the common data set information for individual schools.

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8

Just to clarify, many top schools have transfers built into their education model. What you say is true of many LACs because they have limited housing space but as far as universities many take 80-100+ each year and it has nothing to do with student retention.

That being said, the transfer acceptance rates are top schools are still competitive and if the OP can start at a 4 year school and stay there I submit that’s the much better option.

I also second at least a 1 possibly 2 year gap prior to applying due to age. Alternatively OP could apply and then defer for a year. Might be worth reaching out to the admissions offices to get a feel for which school would prefer?

9

I don’t know if your age will hinder acceptances but it will probably affect your college experience, particularly socially.

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10

Let the GC tell the “excuse” stuff. You tell your own story, vision, ideas, whatever in the Common App essay.

Talk to your parents again about the gap year in China issue. You will be a much more attractive candidate as a person a year older, who is fluent in Chinese and has another year of Comp Sci training. Is it the whole notion of a gap year that they are against, or is it going to China? See if you can come up with an interesting gap year abroad that they might be in agreement with. How about a gap year in Israel, studying Comp Sci?

11

Should I not at least mention it in Aditional Info?

It’s mostly my mom who is against the idea of a gap year, as it’s definitely something that takes a lot of planning and could go wrong.

It;s surprising to me people on this website are very concerned about my age while I’ve never gotten this feedback before.

12

Sorry if I missed it but how and when did you advance two grade levels? How old are your peers and friends at school? What’s your social life like? The concerns voiced by the posters are due to the fact that you will be a 16 year-old living with 18+ year-olds. You will legally be a minor (which creates its own set of complications for residential college life without thinking of the social part) living with adults (again in the legal sense).

You’re 15 right? Is there a reason to accelerate like you have?

13

I have a perfectly normal social life and a good, steady friend group. I advanced two grade levels in elementary school as my teachers recommended it and my parents agreed. I’m not quite sure why but it has not been a hindrance whatsoever. If anything I’m afforded a little more esteem for being academically successful although young.

14

OK, thanks for your reply and it makes sense. If you are at the level of your same age peers both academically and socially then I see no reason to delay your application (do look into the legal ramifications of being a minor for a couple of years on campus though). Since your age raised some eyebrows with the commenters on this website maybe address your social and well as academic readiness for college in one of your essays or short answers. Just an idea.

15

Speak with the guidance counselor, and if youŕe sure that she will do a good job of it, let her tell it.

Look at it this way. You write an essay about how the tragedy of your boyfriend´s death causes your grades to nosedive. Admissions sees it as you making an excuse. Your GC mentions in her letter that you have weathered a serious crisis (boyfriend’s death), and recovered from it, and are doing very well. That’s a counselor relating that you are past this.

Yes, entering college two years early is young and will make admissions committees wonder whether you’re mature enough. The gap year would fix everything, give you better skills and credentials, and make it so that the sky’s the limit on your applications. I really think that after that you could get in anywhere.

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It sounds as if the gap year plan your parents are uncomfortable with is a self-planned year in China. Have they looked at structured programs through AFS or Rotary, where you would live with a host family, attend an additional year of high school with same-age peers, and have the support of a long-established organization? If you already like the idea, I’d really encourage it; it’s a chance that won’t come again. (College study abroad experiences can be valuable too, but you’re not part of a community in the same way that you can be as a HS student.)

It’s likely you could be placed at a school that has enough advanced coursework to keep you moving forward academically. It could be a great experience and position you well for admissions in the next cycle.

Starting college at 15-16 can work out okay, but it’s a lot. It isn’t the same as holding your own with older peers in high school. I started at MIT at 17 and, well , a bit more life experience first would have served me well.

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Agree. started UPenn at 16 and one of the most important things I learned was to make darn sure that none of my kids went to college that early.

For my eldest, it took a heck of a lot of effort. Grad level math courses at Columbia U while still in HS were part of the recipe to keep him engaged.

For a student aiming for T20s, the 3.7 GPA is going to make chances pretty unlikely - particularly when applying as a 15 year old where one of the major concerns is sufficient emotional maturity. Using emotions as an explanation for an F in a class is not likely to make admissions officers confident. Odds would be much better if HS graduation was deferred, while taking advanced classes at a T20 and earning As before applying.

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18

I’m not quite sure what you mean by using emotions as a reason. I think at most ages people are affected by loss, it would be insane to expect someone not to be. I have As in other college courses.

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Very few of the T20 report GPA stats in their Common Data Sets. One of the few that does is Harvard:

Score Range Percent
4.0 = 75.76
3.75 - 3.99 = 18.02
3.50 - 3.74 = 4

The vast majority of accepted, enrolled students with GPAs under 3.75 are hooked (athletic recruits, URMs, development, etc.).

You’re asking the T20s to basically overlook your GPA. As a 15 year old applicant, you are also asking them to set aside any concerns they might have over your emotional maturity and the F you received in response to stress. They are going to be reviewing applicants whose essays describe the tough time they had over the last year watching a parent die from covid or cancer while maintaining their 4.0.

My opinion - take it for whatever you think it’s worth - is that you are asking them to overlook too much at this point and would have a much better chance applying in two years.

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OP- It’s great you are aiming high. You are clearly a wonderful student and would be an asset to any college.

None of us know if your age is going to discussed by the Adcom’s. None of us know how elite colleges are going to deal with a one-off bad grade. None of us know. So go ahead and apply, knowing that you’ve got some rock solid safeties in hand.

If you were my kid I’d be encouraging you to add schools like Vanderbilt and Emory- my observation is that high scores can pretty much compensate for lots of other things in the application, or if you really want the Tech school experience, add RPI, WPI.

Of the tippy top schools, I think the one place that would be most likely to overlook the grade would be U Chicago. They are not likely to care about your age, they will love your academic profile, and they are quirky enough in their interpretation of “holistic admissions” to decide that they want you. And you don’t need to get specific with a major- they love “kids who love math” but haven’t gotten more granular than that.

Good luck!

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