My D is applying to several schools. Bowdoin seems to be her top choice, but Haverford and Oberlin are up there. I’m wondering what others might think of her chances. Since her ACT scores are below Bowdoin’s average, she thinks she won’t send them. She interviewed very well at Bowdoin (over an hour and came out exchanging book titles with interviewer). She had a similar experience at Haverford. Next week, she interviews at Oberlin. She wants to study English/creative writing and/or Government and Politics. She is Latina.
GPA: 4.25
Rank: 1 of 90
ACT: Composite 31 - 34 Reading, 28 Math, 34 English, 28 Science
Has taken the most rigorous schedule her rural high school offers
AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Bio, AP Calc, AP History, AP Gov and Pol
4 English and Psych courses at local LAC, 4.0 GPA
published poems in 2 national journals
Summer Mentorship Writing Program through UPenn
Silver Medal in National Scholastic Arts and Writing competition
President, NHS
Founder and Editor of HS Literary Magazine
Founder of HS Creative Writing Club
World Literacy Foundation Ambassador
Founder/Director of correspondence project between high school students and elderly in community
Head of HS Tech Crew
Drum Major
1st Clarinet 2 years HS Band, Honors Band, District Band, Region Band
Best Drum Major Award, NATO Peace Parade
1st Place Biochemistry Presentation, Regional Junior Academy of Science
West Point Leadership Award
Rotary Youth Leadership Award
PEO Scholarship Regional nominee (national awards still pending)
Principal’s Advisory Committee
With a strong creative writing background, she’s written strong essays. Her recommendations are very detailed and extensive from teachers with whom she has worked quite closely.
Thanks for the info Merc81. D has most of her applications in or ready to go. Her reach schools are Amherst and Williams. She feels she has realistic chances of getting into one or more of the following schools to which she has applied: Bowdoin, Haverford, Hamilton, Kenyon, and Oberlin. Her safety is Univ. of Pitt. She’s thinking of applying to Middlebury because it feels more like Bowdoin to her than the other schools, and she’s getting nervous that she won’t get into one of her top choices. (Wes and Vassar were considered, but I didn’t get good results on their net price calculators).
So here’s my problem. I want to give her good, accurate advice. I want to tell her that Middlebury is a fine place, but she probably doesn’t need to apply because if she doesn’t get into Bowdoin or Haverford, then she’s not likely to get into Middlebury either. Or, put more positively, if she gets into Middlebury, she’s probably going to get into Bowdoin and/or Haverford. Do you think that’s correct? Accurate? Thanks for your help.
Depending on the year (and considering that Bowdoin’s test optional policy can affect the appearance of their statistics), the schools you mentioned may span a significant range when viewed comparatively:
So I’d probably say that what would be the case for one of them would probably not be the case for all of them. Nonetheless, I’d only be inclined to recommend an application to Middlebury if the school were to represent qualities to your daughter that would not be found elsewhere. If she simply regards Middlebury as a school that resembles a preferred option, then, irrespective of a potential strategy, she may want to stick with her current array of choices, which, considered individually, offer attributes and characteristics that serve to nicely distinguish them both from each other and from other liberal arts colleges in general.
On the face of it, I would agree that it’s fine to skip Middlebury based on the reasoning above. With that said, the classes at these schools are small, and this can mean that while you pass the “stats hurdle” at all of them, that’s no guarantee that all of them (or any of them) will take you. For that reason, adding another may help your chances of getting into one of them if that’s the kind of school you want. I know kids (including my own) whose results did not follow the “if A will accept you, then B will as well” pattern. But I say that only assuming the schools mentioned in the title are top choices. Your overall list is sound without the addition.
" I want to tell her that Middlebury is a fine place, but she probably doesn’t need to apply because if she doesn’t get into Bowdoin or Haverford, then she’s not likely to get into Middlebury either. Or, put more positively, if she gets into Middlebury, she’s probably going to get into Bowdoin and/or Haverford. Do you think that’s correct? Accurate?"
This is not good advice. Admissions decisions are not this predictable at small, elite colleges. There are students who will get into one school, but not another and vice versa. It is entirely possible to be rejected at Bowdoin and Haverford yet be admitted to Middlebury. If she is particularly interested in Middlebury, she should apply there regardless of what might happen at Bowdoin and Haverford.
I agree with the advice above. Small liberal arts college admissions are not at all predictable by looking at statistics. I know someone who is at Bowdoin now who was rejected by Midd and also by Haverford (in the early round). These colleges are looking to build a class and who knows what they are missing in any particular admission season?
@Honito our daughters sound very similar! My D also has been very involved in creative writing and almost did that Penn program but she was out of the country for part of it. She has also won several Scholastic Awards and wants to major in Creative Writing. We are Bates alums so we visited there as well as Bowdoin and she had a great interview at Bowdoin too but ended up taking it off of her list because they didn’t have a major in creative writing. I wish she had considered Middlebury but we never made it up there (we are in Maryland) and she fell in love with Oberlin. She will be there in the fall and is very excited about their creative writing program.
Your daughter has almost the same stats as mine so I think she has a good shot at many schools and being Latina will help differentiate her.
LMC9902. Good to hear from you, and thanks for the encouraging words. Oberlin is a great place, especially for creative writing. I’m a big fan of their literary journal, FIELD. For my daughter, the only negative is that Oberlin, OH is much like the small town in western, PA where we live (about 2 hours from Oberlin). Understandably, she seems to want an adventure at least a little further from home. I grew up in Montgomery County, Maryland, so Oberlin would have been a real adventure for me. I’m sure your daughter will have a great experience.
@Honito We live in Montgomery County so yes Oberlin will be a totally different experience for her! She’s excited about the small town despite being a city person.
My daughter was accepted to Williams, Haverford, Middlebury, Hamilton, and Oberlin. Waitlisted at Amherst, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, and Kenyon. All of the places to which she’s been accepted (and waitlisted) are great schools for her interests (humanities, pre-law). How to choose? From my perspective, it’s extremely difficult to decide between Williams and Haverford, as both were, by far, the most generous with their financial offers and both are great schools. We can certainly use the financial help. She’s had an overnight at Haverford and will have an overnight at Williams in April. Then it will be her choice. We shall see. Couldn’t be happier with the results.
Congrats, to your daughter, Bonito. Great results! Is she planning to attend accepted student days?
If it coms down to a choice between Williams and Haverford due to good aid, I would say the campus vibes are a little different and location is a big differentiator. Williams would be better for someone wishing to have access to outdoor pursuits like hiking and Haverford for someone not wanting to be isolated. The easy access into Philly via commuter train (20 minutes or so) opens great cultural options. Philly has a great music, arts, and dining scene and would provide internship opportunities. Also , getting to DC and NYC is quick via bus or train routes.
@doschicos. Yes, we’re planning to attend accepted students days at Williams. She’s already overnighted at Haverford, and we visited Williams on the whirlwind New England tour. Exciting Times! My daughter feels comfortable with both locales, though they offer very different experiences.She wants an adventure…and they both represent adventures to her.
Williams - More preppy, cocky, outdoorsy, more of a party scene although you’ll find it on both campuses but I think there are more options for those who don’t partake at Haverford.
Haverford - With the honor code and Quaker values, an academically rigorous but uncompetitive and cooperative environment. You’ll have cocky, preppy elements, too, but probably a little more of a “nerdy” element. There indefinitely a bohemian, “crunchy”, artsy element, too. Self scheduled exams can be a big plus. I forgot to add before that the consortium with Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore and Penn adds some nice options.
Wonderful choices. Super bright students at both. She can’t go wrong with whatever she chooses!
I will also add that while in a gorgeous setting Williams is very isolated. I know from a friend’s daughter who attends there, that without a car one can feel very trapped on campus. There is only one small commercial street adjacent to campus. Haverford is in a suburban environment with restaurants and shopping easily accessible either on foot, by bike or via trips on the inter-campus Blue Bus. And of course, Philadelphia is just a short commuter rail ride away.
At Williams, the student I know has really enjoyed taking advantage of all of the hiking in the vicinity, but was much happier on campus once she was able to get a car. Williamstown doesn’t even have a drugstore near campus. Now in the time of Amazon, that may not be a dealbreaker, but it is easier to function with basic commerce at hand.