My Junior is planning next year’s courses. She plans on applying to several T10 schools to study Public Health. She really does not want to take Calculus or Physics. Would she have any chances of admission at these schools if she didn’t take them? Or should she suck it up? She’s taken otherwise rigorous classes and has solid/unique ECs
I think these are both important, especially for T10, and also especially for public health which borders science so closely. You wouldn’t want their absence to be the reason she’s shut out, but I also think they are important topics to know. Most successful T10 applications will have both.
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I’d suggest she “suck it up.” Acceptance rates at the T10 schools are typically under 10% (some under 5%). These schools must be considered to be a longshot for any unhooked student. That said, not taking the most rigorous schedule offered at her HS would likely put her at a disadvantage when compared to other strong applicants.
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I think the first question is what are her chances overall? If you are looking at acceptance rates in the single digits and low-teens, those schools reject many more (85-95 out of every 100) qualified applicants than they accept simply because they can’t physically accommodate any more. In any case, you don’t want to give any reason for the application to be moved into the “NO” pile any earlier than necessary. Her application will be judged alongside others from her school and region. If she doesn’t take classes that are offered, and others do, that is a good reason to be moved into the “NO”s.
That being said, in all likelihood she would not be accepted either way because most students just aren’t. If she takes the classes and doesn’t get in, you can at least say she gave it her all. If she doesn’t take them, you’ll never know if the classes would have made a difference.
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The T10 get so many incredible applicants that they are looking for reasons to knock people out. Skipping these 2 courses gives them a big reason.
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She should take classes she enjoys if she has a choice and not for the purposes checking a college admissions. She will probably not get in to a T10 anyways, so why do something you don’t want?
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Her chances at any top 10 is under 7% to start.
Look at the colleges where she has higher rates of possible acceptances, as well. Some have specific requirements for certain majors or programs.
Highly selective colleges will want to see a math and a science next year. What would she take instead? There needs to be a reason for the detour from the more rigorous courses.
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If she’s going to major in public health she better get used to science and math classes. My daughter is at an easy in school. When she saw the requirements for the health promotion major which is the easy side of public health…she was shocked.
Getting into top 10 is near impossible.
But if you are running from expected rigor…ie calc when it’s next in sequence, you’re likely not cut out for these schools anyway.
She should look at class requirements for the major. It doesn’t sound like a public health major will be for her. Maybe an urban studies with a social policy focus instead which can include some public health electives.
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The Top 10 Universities for the study of Public Health looks much different than the US News Top 10 National Universities.
US News Top 10 National Universities (actually 12 universities due to several schools tied at #9):
Princeton, Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Yale, Stanford, Chicago, Penn, Northwestern, Duke, CalTech, & Johns Hopkins (JHU).
Top 10 universities for study of Public Health:
UNC-Chapel Hill, JHU, Columbia, UCal-Berkeley, Michigan, George Washington University (GWU), Boston University, Univ. of Florida, University of South Florida, & the University of Pittsburgh.
Only 2 schools in both categories = JHU & Columbia.
Are you willing to share your state of residence as public universities are more likely to offer Public Health as a major.
Some other schools which offer Public Health: Illinois, NYU, Drexel, several Univ.of California schools, Saint Louis University, Univ. of Maryland, Brown, Texas A&M, University of Arizona, UMass-Amherst, Univ. of Alabama at Birmingham, Ohio State Univ., Univ. of South Carolina, Wisconsin, Iowa, Baylor, Purdue, Univ.of Albny, Univ. of Buffalo,Georgia, & San Diego State.
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We live in Oregon. Portland State has a PH program and it is her safety (she’s not interested in OSU or UO because she’s not a fan of the towns they’re in). She’s not bothering to apply to any public out of state schools due to tuition costs, or because the schools that do give oos aide are in states she has no desire to live in. Brown and Harvard are her reaches and she is also interested in applying to BU, Northeastern, NYU, Tufts, Georgetown, Barnard, Drexel, and maybe GWU.
She’d take a Dual Enrollment Statistics and Anatomy instead.
Has she taken some level of physics?
Here’s what Harvard says: “An ideal four-year preparatory program includes four years of English, with extensive practice in writing; four years of math; four years of science: biology, chemistry, physics, and an advanced course in one of these subjects; three years of history, including American and European history; and four years of one foreign language.”
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Assuming you don’t have need, top publics like UNC, UF, FSU, Pitt, U of SC, Charleston, and UMD and others will be cheaper than what you list.
Others that have auto merit like Arizona will be downright inexpensive, assuming she has top grades.
Do any of the WUE universities have good programs in public health that give WUE discounts to out of state WUE students?
I would be inclined to assume that she will not get accepted to a “top 10” university, and then think about whether calculus or physics would be important for her major. The answer to this question would be rather high on my list of factors determining whether she should take these courses now.
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Just to clarify that that BU, Northeaster, NYU, Tufts, Georgetown and Barnard are all high unlikely/reaches too. Just not quite as unlikely ; )
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And not top 10 since that’s in the subject.
Looking at the list - and we don’t know the student’s stats - but it seems like mid-size urban - you can definitely get low cost and lower cost at publics - lots of merit and at a bit less prestigious privates.
A top school that may fit your needs - since you have Brown and it has a similar curriculum is Rochester. Other midsize to look in urban environments are American and GW since you have Gtown, College of Charleston (she can be a fellow - one of my daughter’s classmates turned down Penn, Vandy and Rice to attend - and he’s public health/pre-med, and Syracuse.
Nothing wrong with Portland State at all- but it’s a big drop down from the schools you list (except maybe Drexel) to PSU - so these might give you some in between ideas.
Like someone said b4, top rated colleges are not necessarily top rated in public health.
More importantly, your student should see the in-school course requirements to ensure that’s the right major - it’s very science slanted at most schools.
Good luck.
btw - you said she’s not applying to publics because the state schools that give merit, she’s not interested in those. I’d counter with this:
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Most states have a solid public with at least the opportunity for merit
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Most every public in the country (assuming full pay) will be significantly cheaper to cheaper than every school on your initial list.
Good luck.
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Has your daughter had physics before? If not, then I would probably take physics, as many colleges want that to be one of the three science classes that students have taken. If she has had physics, then I don’t see a problem with her enrolling in anatomy. If she anticipates needing to take calculus while in college for her major, then I would start with it in high school. If she does not plan to take calculus in college, stats seems fine. However, she should not be surprised if a highly rejective university decides to use that against her (they may or may not). I doubt most other universities would.
When I was a senior in high school I had to choose between journalism (and I’d been the editor of the paper the previous two years) and calculus. I was contemplating journalism as a major and knew I was highly unlikely to major in math or science. I have yet to take calculus and have done just fine with my life. But then again, there was only one top 10 I was considering at the time.
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@DividedSkyPause - Public Health is a great profession but for most careers you need to continue on for your MPH. When you start building your list, you may want to take a look at some of the schools that offer a combined BS/MPH program, or consider your states flagship college for undergrad then shoot for a top graduate program
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Just to give you some other options to consider between the T10 and Portland State
WUE: Universities where you get the WUE tuition exchange rate with a major in public health. So basically, in-state public prices.
- University of New Mexico (Albuquerque)
- University of Nevada – Reno
- Boise State (ID)
Here are some other universities with public health majors in the cities your daughter appears to prefer, where admission is more likely and where merit aid might enter the picture as well.
Boston: Simmons (all women)
New York City
- Yeshiva
- New Jersey Institute of Technology (metro area)
- St. John’s
- City University of New York: Hunter College
- CUNY: Brooklyn College
Philadelphia
- Temple
- La Salle
Here are some alternative cities where the college campus is in the urban area, offers a public health major, and there’s a preponderance of state capitals on the list as well, in case your daughter has any interest in public health policy. Once again, these are likelier admits and have the potential for merit aid. The honors programs at U. of South Carolina and U. of Utah are particularly well-regarded.
ALTERNATIVE CITIES
Chicago
- DePaul
- Loyola – Chicago
Atlanta: Agnes Scott (all women)
Baton Rouge: Louisiana State
Cincinnati: U. of Cincinnati
Columbia: U. of South Carolina
Columbus: Ohio State
Madison: U. of Wisconsin
Minneapolis/Saint Paul
- U. of Minnesota
- St. Catherine (all women)
- U. of St. Thomas
Raleigh:
- North Carolina State
- Meredith (all women)
Richmond: Virginia Commonwealth
Salt Lake City: U. of Utah
San Francisco: U. of San Francisco
Seattle: U. of Washington
Tallahassee: Florida State
Tucson: U. of Arizona
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I doubt that many USNWR T10 colleges offer a public health major, but some offer similar majors . For example, one of Stanford’s most popular majors is Human Biology, which could include a lot of selection of public-health related classes and related final project.
If you are not applying to engineering/Caltech, calculus is probably not going to be required. However, physics is likely to at least be recommended. The specific colleges will usually list recommended HS courses on their website. Continuing with the Stanford example, Stanford’s website says the following. Note that they explicitly state that physics is recommended, without any qualifier for only students applying to particular majors.
- Mathematics: four years of any rigorous mathematics incorporating a solid grounding in fundamental skills (algebra, geometry, trigonometry). We also welcome preparation in skills related to statistics, data science and calculus.
- Science: three or more years of laboratory science (including biology, chemistry and physics).
Even when colleges don’t explicitly say that calculus or physics is recommended, they often expect applicants to choose among the most rigorous courses offered at the HS; so choosing to skip calculus and physics when available could put the applicant at a disadvantage.
Perhaps the more important question is whether the T10 schools are the best fit for this particular student who wants to study public health, rather than how to choose senior schedule for best chance of being admitted?
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